How Long Would Society Last During a Total Grid Collapse?
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livingston
20×102mm Vulcan
What Is A Black Start Of The Power Grid?
livingston
20×102mm Vulcan
From the comments section
As a Ukrainian I find this video especially interesting as our engineers are fighting blackouts 24/7 for the last 3 month trying to keep the power grid running while the transformers and power plants are being knocked out by Russian rockets and drones. I owe to them. This people are heroes.
As a Ukrainian I find this video especially interesting as our engineers are fighting blackouts 24/7 for the last 3 month trying to keep the power grid running while the transformers and power plants are being knocked out by Russian rockets and drones. I owe to them. This people are heroes.
IMO. I've pondered this in serious thought before. Society will last so long as the belief that the average man and woman "believes" things will go back to "normal". As soon as they come to terms with "it's not getting fixed" is when all hell breaks loose and people start killing each other over possessions and food.
So my answer isn't an exact timeframe but more of a behavioral observation. Some people will realize it sooner than others and have worse instinctual behaviors so they will begin to exploit the situation sooner than others will. If you live in an area with a higher density of these individuals your society break down will occur more rapidly than an area where people instinctually follow a moral compass regardless of what a law tells them, their breakdown will be much slower and more controlled as they revert to the least common denominator of acceptable behaviors.
So my answer isn't an exact timeframe but more of a behavioral observation. Some people will realize it sooner than others and have worse instinctual behaviors so they will begin to exploit the situation sooner than others will. If you live in an area with a higher density of these individuals your society break down will occur more rapidly than an area where people instinctually follow a moral compass regardless of what a law tells them, their breakdown will be much slower and more controlled as they revert to the least common denominator of acceptable behaviors.
Jmac00
.475 A&M Magnum
those of us with offgrid capability, we don't give a shit. We are good to go.
I can last at least two weeks. If I watch my water usage, I can probably go another week. Even if Im in really cold weather, we'll be fine. Food maybe an issue, but I can hunt if necessary.
I would imaging anyone with a generator, would be ok as well. When we had a house, I always had a minimum of 20 gallons of ethanol free gas, with Marine grade Sta-bil in it, for my 5500w generator. I used the generator on construction sites. It will run 7 hours on 5 gallons of gas. So 20 gallons will last a long time if I only run the generator 4 hours at a tie, then rest it for 4 or 5 hours. Just get the house warm, the freezer/fridge cold. Thats all I really needed.
We spent 2 weeks in the desert last February, and it was the coldest first quarter in Arizona history. I don't think it ever got below 35° but it rarely got past 60° during the day. resource management is the key. Use your water, LPG sparingly. and I never used the generator. Everything ran off the solar. We could go awhile without resupplying. Like I said, we are GTG
I can last at least two weeks. If I watch my water usage, I can probably go another week. Even if Im in really cold weather, we'll be fine. Food maybe an issue, but I can hunt if necessary.
I would imaging anyone with a generator, would be ok as well. When we had a house, I always had a minimum of 20 gallons of ethanol free gas, with Marine grade Sta-bil in it, for my 5500w generator. I used the generator on construction sites. It will run 7 hours on 5 gallons of gas. So 20 gallons will last a long time if I only run the generator 4 hours at a tie, then rest it for 4 or 5 hours. Just get the house warm, the freezer/fridge cold. Thats all I really needed.
We spent 2 weeks in the desert last February, and it was the coldest first quarter in Arizona history. I don't think it ever got below 35° but it rarely got past 60° during the day. resource management is the key. Use your water, LPG sparingly. and I never used the generator. Everything ran off the solar. We could go awhile without resupplying. Like I said, we are GTG
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
how is maui doing ??
Devastated
tc556guy
.45 acp
Every other person thinks they're going to hunt their way to survival. It took the wildlife population decades to rebound from the Depression. The average US household has two weeks worth of food on its shelves. Thats everything from the microwave popcorn to the condiments next to the stove. Best to aim for numbers that will cover you for six months. You're certain to find some spoilage as you reach the back of the kitchen shelf and hot the stuff you didnt have in regular rotation in good times. Waters even more critical. If you dont have at least one 55 gallon barrel of water set aside, its cheap insurance. You may or may not have had time to fill the tub before the power went out. Do you have any means of collecting or treating the surface water you may be relying on after your stored supplies run out?
TEOTWAWKI inc.
.338 Win Mag
Pretty sure society in the cities has already collapsed, and the power didn't even go out yet. Once it does, population (in the cities) will rapidly decrease after just a few days.
Out where I am, people probably stand a much better chance. Hopefully by the next election my "house" will be mostly in order. I would be comfortable if something happened right now, but I'm investing as much time and money as possible in food, water, fuel, and ammunition.
Out where I am, people probably stand a much better chance. Hopefully by the next election my "house" will be mostly in order. I would be comfortable if something happened right now, but I'm investing as much time and money as possible in food, water, fuel, and ammunition.
livingston
20×102mm Vulcan
Many people that have wells can survive. If one has a drilled well take the cover off and drop say a tin can on a string or rope and bail it out. . We have a septic tank that does not need electric to operate as in a raised bed .... I also have access to 5 ponds within 1000 ft of my home. Not all on our land. I am sure neighbors would allow a few buckets /day to flush a toilet
. There are also 2 dug wells that sit in the middle of nowhere ... Rocked shut. Why they are there . I have no idea. .I realize not everyone uses a well for water. But I am sure there are thousands of wells in ones area that do. .. Travel to Africa or India and thousands of people live off one or two community wells ...
livingston
20×102mm Vulcan
TOTAL GRID COLLAPSE | How to prepare for a total grid collapse
How to prepare for a total grid collapse. In South Africa we have seen gross deterioration of our grid and economy as a whole. Are we facing a total grid collapse? How does one prepare for a total grid collapse and what does a total grid collapse look like? In this video I share some insights on what the possible sequence of events looks like during a total grid collapse.Hochulsucks1234
.44 mag
I experienced this on a small scale a few years ago when a microburst took down our lines. Power was out for 5 days. Doesn't seem like a lot of time, but it is enough to cause panic for most of the general population (esp in cities). It wasn't in winter, which wouldn't have changed much for us since we have woodstoves. I have a full house backup generator that I ran no more than 2hrs a day (split morning and evening). It was enough to keep freezers cold, gather water from the well, charge electronics, etc. I knew it was going to be a long event so running the generator all day was out of the question. I have 50 gallons of diesel on hand that I routinely cycle out. I didn't even go through a 5 gallon container those 5 days. As a family we did well. Had plenty of supplies, managed without TV (which we dont use a lot), actually did more family things like board games. After 2 days in everyone was able to shower and even did a quick load of laundry. It was life as usual.
I prepared for something like this and from actual experience learned new lessons to further prepare for the next time. I will add, by the 3rd day we had family and some neighbors stop by for water and other stuff. We helped out where we could. My brother and his wife asked to take showers, which I denied. I don't think they liked that much. Point is, one can prepare all day for this stuff, the biggest issue is dealing with others. It starts out being a friendly helping neighbor. But long term outages will eventually cause chaos and guess where people are going to go? That worries me the most.
I prepared for something like this and from actual experience learned new lessons to further prepare for the next time. I will add, by the 3rd day we had family and some neighbors stop by for water and other stuff. We helped out where we could. My brother and his wife asked to take showers, which I denied. I don't think they liked that much. Point is, one can prepare all day for this stuff, the biggest issue is dealing with others. It starts out being a friendly helping neighbor. But long term outages will eventually cause chaos and guess where people are going to go? That worries me the most.
TEOTWAWKI inc.
.338 Win Mag
Nobody is "friendly" after a few days. Point them in the direction of the nearest FEMA camp.
I'm just as concerned about some agency showing up with "MANDATORY" evacuation orders. We aren't going anywhere unless we made that decision on our own.
Jmac00
.475 A&M Magnum
why Yes I do, we have a Big Berkey water filtration system. We could pour swamp water in the top, and pure clean. delicious water comes out the bottom. People should look into them. CDC and FDA approved....blah,blah,blah
all you need do is get ahold of the black filters, which, last I checked are on back order.......
Month tops.
why Yes I do, we have a Big Berkey water filtration system. We could pour swamp water in the top, and pure clean. delicious water comes out the bottom. People should look into them. CDC and FDA approved....blah,blah,blah
all you need do is get ahold of the black filters, which, last I checked are on back order.......
I have a still, I can clean just about any water.
I wish that was accurate but imo I think that you're very optimistic And generous.
I bet a city like NYC wouldn't make it 5 days in a total electronic and communication blackout.
A city like buffalo or Rochester wouldn't make it 10 days without complete chaos. Perfect example is look how bad buffalo degenerated into chaos and looting after a 3 day blizzard when the citizens knew things would still return to normal once the blizzard ended. Imagine when there is no communication and it's a complete blackout and people start to realize "this is different" and how they react. Even mid sized cities would be warzones in 10 days.
JRtraderny
.308 Win
$20 says they don't make it 5 days .
TEOTWAWKI inc.
.338 Win Mag
This is only accurate if something happened without warning. If there was any indication that things were about to get really "different", the chaos would start well beforehand.
I wouldn't be the least bit shocked at how many people decide they need a giant TV right before an asteroid smashes into the earth.
A major part of moving where I did is distance to any population center. Some government agency is a bigger threat than some transient band of thugs.
spat
.950 JDJ
It would depend on how quickly people decided it wasn't coming back.
If they knew it was done for good, then 2 or 3 days to anarchy.
If they were thinking "the authorities are working in getting it back up" then a month or two. Depends on how long they still believe that.
TEOTWAWKI inc.
.338 Win Mag
The amount of aid that would need to be supplied IMMEDIATELY, to keep people fat, dumb, and happy is not realistic, even if the 'event' was isolated to a single city. Look at hurricane Katrina/NOLA as an example. Society has deteriorated immensely since then, and many more people are just dirty fucking animals today.
If there isn't unlimited cell/internet/x-box/doritos/newports/booze, the city is going to be burning in 48 hours.
JaguarJaguarGolf
6.5 Creedmoor
From the early 1900’s; “9 meals away from anarchy”
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
i remember the NY ice storm 1998 .. 2 week with no power .. lots of snow too ..
out came the camping gear and we even cooked on the wood stove ..
12 volt house hold light bulbs and extension cord to my car .. 71/72 duster 318 idles in the drive way
we got lights ..
what i also remember from back then .. i was never hungry .. food just showed up at the volunteer fire dept. to pass out
what i also remember is no govt agency helping even back then ..
jagorequipmenttoolandsupply.com
may be the the title should be
how long will the govt and big cities last ??
out came the camping gear and we even cooked on the wood stove ..
12 volt house hold light bulbs and extension cord to my car .. 71/72 duster 318 idles in the drive way
we got lights ..
what i also remember from back then .. i was never hungry .. food just showed up at the volunteer fire dept. to pass out
what i also remember is no govt agency helping even back then ..
Bayco SL412 12 Volt Droplight - Jagor Equipment Tool & Supply
Bayco 12 volt Droplight Worklight with 25ft cord and battery connection clips. Excellent for road service work. Take a droplight with you wherever you go. Rough service 50w bulb included. SL412
jagorequipmenttoolandsupply.com
may be the the title should be
how long will the govt and big cities last ??
Some of the more Rural area up North that are used to being without power for weeks on end due to storms/natural disasters will get along a bit longer, that said I have seen how quickly the Hospitals and EMS system overloads, and shortly thereafter the Law enforcement systems becomes overtaxed, and then there are issues with food, fuel, and supplies... we figure ten to fourteen days before things really turn to shit.
The whole system crashes when the water runs out or people know there isn't a government anymore.
JaguarJaguarGolf
6.5 Creedmoor
NYC Fire hydrant and low rise building water systems are gravity fed from upstate reservoirs.
masterswimmer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
2011 we had Hurricane Irene. That was a cluster phuck. We were without electricity, phone, and internet for 11 days. Generator is a 7500w Coleman that performed like a champ. We had plenty of food, fuel, water (well), and life was close to normal here. I must say, I was real glad when the out of state emergency crews got our electric back up and running though.
Survived it perfectly well, but honestly, it wasn't fun. I didn't have any revelation that this would be cool for the long haul. Modern conveniences have become our collective way of life. And I will admit, I like those conveniences.
Survived it perfectly well, but honestly, it wasn't fun. I didn't have any revelation that this would be cool for the long haul. Modern conveniences have become our collective way of life. And I will admit, I like those conveniences.