Handgun stopping power, lack of it. Police video

[Celt]

Police Bodycam Video Shows The Limit of Handgun Stopping Power - The Truth About Guns

Just goes to show what a determined attacker can do.

He should have dumped the mag into this guy the second he got up and came at them again.

 

[GOPerfect]

Amazing the perseverance of some people.

Should have continued until the threat was no longer viable.

 

[tirwin1]

One of the most surprising things I learned when I first got into firearms a few years ago was just how wrong all the movies and TV shows were. People do not simply go down with one shot (although they sometimes can if it is placed right). Real world videos show time and again how people continue to move, react, flee or attack after being shot once, twice, three times, etc.. Thus the rule to keep shooting until the threat has been ended.

I wonder how much trouble the cop will get into for shooting an unarmed man. Not that I disagree with his decision. I can imagine the hell that would be raised if he fired multiple times especially if the guy was on the ground. This cop will get second guessed for everything.

 

[GOPerfect]

One of the most surprising things I learned when I first got into firearms a few years ago was just how wrong all the movies and TV shows were. People do not simply go down with one shot (although they sometimes can if it is placed right). Real world videos show time and again how people continue to move, react, flee or attack after being shot once, twice, three times, etc.. Thus the rule to keep shooting until the threat has been ended.

I wonder how much trouble the cop will get into for shooting an unarmed man. Not that I disagree with his decision. I can imagine the hell that would be raised if he fired multiple times especially if the guy was on the ground. This cop will get second guessed for everything.

I will say no trouble at all. A threat does NOT need to be armed with a weapon to be considered a threat.

 

[Celt]

One of the most surprising things I learned when I first got into firearms a few years ago was just how wrong all the movies and TV shows were. People do not simply go down with one shot (although they sometimes can if it is placed right). Real world videos show time and again how people continue to move, react, flee or attack after being shot once, twice, three times, etc.. Thus the rule to keep shooting until the threat has been ended.

I wonder how much trouble the cop will get into for shooting an unarmed man. Not that I disagree with his decision. I can imagine the hell that would be raised if he fired multiple times especially if the guy was on the ground. This cop will get second guessed for everything.

he charged the cop, and he wasnt a small guy either. if he shot the guy while he was lying on the ground that is one thing, but once the guy started getting back up in an aggressive manner the officer could have easily lit him up. but its easy to say that while watching it on video, when its happening in real time its not always as easy.

 

[GTN]

it doesn't show where the shot hit him ?

 

[Robin]

Obviously, the man has no soul.
Robin

 

[dwa12479]

But... but.. but... He shot an UNARMED black man! POLICE BRUTALITY!!! March in the streets and burn some shit!!!!

 

[Saltwater60]

I have no problem with this shooting. He already showed he was Neville today and ran at a cop with his gun out. Sure looked to me like he was going for the cops gun. Good shoot 100%.

I feel bad for the cop that lost the fist fight to a guy that was shot. Also the cop next to him did nothing to help.

 

[togmaster]

Two to the body,one to the head...

 

[Celt]

I feel bad for the cop that lost the fist fight to a guy that was shot. Also the cop next to him did nothing to help.

I thought the same thing, had there not been another officer tge perp may have seriously gotten the better of him. Clearly the perp had just warmed up on his broken and bleeding girlfriend.

 

[GTN]

Found another article
1 shot to the stomach

 

[C3D]

Armchair quarterbacks — why wasn’t that second cop on top of him at 0:27? He is hanging back on the radio watching his partner grapple for his life for at least 7-9 seconds.

 

[Shadow2]

So if someone runs at me real fast I'm allowed to shoot them? I need to know this for when Westchester starts handing out carry permits.

 

[Celt]

So if someone runs at me real fast I'm allowed to shoot them? I need to know this for when Westchester starts handing out carry permits.

Clearly, this guy just beat the shit out of his girlfriend, cops told him to stand down. The perp ignored and charged the cop, as a cop you cant allow this guy to potentially get your gun and kill you with it, so this was a good shoot,in my non professional opinion.

As a concealed carrying citizen, in this exact scenario, i would think it would be justified as well. Keep in mind, a jury would need to believe that you were REASONABLY in fear for your life to use deadly physical force. Looking at what this animal just did, and his physical size (not that hes a jacked strongman type guy, but still a bigger guy than the average man) along with charging at you would lead most to believe he would stop at nothing to get away from that situation, including killing you.

 

[Glenn B]

Armchair quarterbacks — why wasn’t that second cop on top of him at 0:27? He is hanging back on the radio watching his partner grapple for his life for at least 7-9 seconds.

My question exactly. That cop, the hesitant one, maybe is going to get a face full of shit from his brother officers - or should get it. In days gone by, there would have been a good chance he would have gotten his ass beaten by them for something like that. I think an assignment to the property clerk's office, for the rest of his career, should be the best he could expect after that poor performance. Sure - he will say he was calling for help or trying to get an opening to shoot again and yada, yada, yada but none of that means a damned thing. Help was already called and his brother office was on the ground in need of assistance and he actually backed off a couple of steps at one point. Disgraceful - or just bad judgement - you decide.

 

[Toecutter]

The police shpuldnt be wrestling people. Any fight is an armed conflict. The officer can lose control over his weapon and be killed with it. Don't want to be shot dont try and fight a man with a gun.
Shooting center mass is good for hitting a target but unless you hit the spine or heart it is pain compliance until the guy bleeds to the point where he doesn't have strength. You want to stop him shoot him in the hip. You will break his bodies ability to move no matter how much it hurts.

 

[BDinPutnam]

Bad, bad, bad... why couldn't they just tase him, or shoot him in the foot, or, or, or.... use strong language?

 

[Shadow2]

So the presence of your firearm and the possibility of an aggressor getting a hold of it is now the grounds for deadly force? Ass Backwards logic.

 

[Toecutter]

So the presence of your firearm and the possibility of an aggressor getting a hold of it is now the grounds for deadly force? Ass Backwards logic.

Absolutely.It has happened. Police lose control of situations they are not supermen and most cops can't fight for shit. I also don't think police should be hassling people unless there is a real crime being commited ; loss of life liberty or property. For that reason there is always a chance of a deadly encounter over nothing .Such as fucking with people for selling loose cigarettes or smoking weed.
I can tell you I've been arrested recently. The charges were dismissed in court, because I did nothing wrong just in the wrong place. I am currently looking into a false arrest lawsuit and I will get a few grand for my trouble. Now if I did fight ,scream and try and tackle the cop id be dead or in jail right now.
I also carry a pistol on me everyday and because of this I let shit go all the time where I would not have years ago. I avoid confrontation because I know that a fist fight over something stupid it could end with someone getting shot.

 

[Celt]

So the presence of your firearm and the possibility of an aggressor getting a hold of it is now the grounds for deadly force? Ass Backwards logic.

really? are you being serious with this? I already explained why this should clearly be a open and shut case of a justified shooting, and why it should be for a concealed carrier as well.

Thats why I made a distinct difference between an armed police officer, and even a concealed carrier where the attacker wouldnt know that you were carrying. There is a thing called disparity of force, basically if you are outnumbered, or if the attacker is physically bigger or more capable than the victim its much simpler to prove you were in fear for your life.

If you had a 6'2" 250lb weight lifter, and an attacker who was 5'6" and 135lb without a weapon, then you would be hard pressed to justify that you were in fear for your life. Now, put a weapon in the hand of the little guy, and that changes things, levels of shown aggression also are taken into consideration. Also, if a person is of average size, say 5'9" 170lbs and highly trained in martial arts of some kind, and there is an attacker that is about the same size without a weapon, a court might not believe that the well trained (in hand to hand combat) guy was genuinely in fear for his life because of his elite level of training in "fighting" situations.

Think about it logically (yes logically). A call is made to 911 that a man fitting this guys description just beat the living shit out of a female (important to note the morality of the person, if he did this to a female he would hesitate even less with a male). You show up on site and you witness him acting hostile/aggressive, you talk to him briefly and he charges you. Do you think he is coming to A) give you a hug B) shake your hand c) beat the fuck out of you, take your gun, kill you or anyone that tries to stop him, or at least get away and use your gun in a crime down the road?

Are you saying that you would entertain grappling/fighting with this guy if you were the cop? Especially if your weapon was already drawn and out of the holster?

 

[GOPerfect]

I think there are a lot of gun owners that really need to learn and understand laws a bit better.

More reading and research on the Justification of the Use of Force.

Some really think and believe that one needs to be moments away from dying before a firearm can be used.

Do yourselves a favor and get some serious knowledge. If you can't do it on your own, find a really good gun lawyer, pay for a consultation and be taught.

 

[Celt]

@Shadow2 , id really like to hear your perspective as to why it shouldnt be. Its a chance for a good exchange.

 

[Shadow2]

Your essentially condoning the use of deadly force for what amounts to nothing but a fist fight. Love all the all hypothetical scenarios and sprinkle in a little "feeling scared" for your like and we have liberal logic for removing guns from citizens.

Don't know what lead up too this specific incident, don't really care, but its a really bad precedent to set when it comes to use of deadly force and is exactly the same convoluted hypothetical fear driving gun control.

Based on the above criteria i could have shot allot of drunk assholes when i was younger ...

 

[Marine Cpl]

Your essentially condoning the use of deadly force for what amounts to nothing but a fist fight. Love all the all hypothetical scenarios and sprinkle in a little "feeling scared" for your like and we have liberal logic for removing guns from citizens.

Don't know what lead up too this specific incident, don't really care, but its a really bad precedent to set when it comes to use of deadly force and is exactly the same convoluted hypothetical fear driving gun control.

Based on the above criteria i could have shot allot of drunk assholes when i was younger ...

So a grown adult who just wants to get into a fistfight with another grown adult who is just going about his business is going to leave your gun alone because he's honorable?

The world doesn't work like that. Someone who doesn't care about the law and doesn't care if he gets locked up and attacks or attacks to rob another adult who is just going about his business isn't someone who can be trusted to abide by non-existent rules of a fistfight.

 

[Celt]

@Shadow2 , I hear what your saying, but this isnt a regular fist fight over some dirty looks or disrespectful words(ive had more of those than most people and know the difference in peoples body language and levels of aggression). This is an angry animal intent on getting away from a violent crime he committed, hes attacking an armed officer thats pointing a gun at him. What led up to it makes a BIG difference.

 

[Doc8404]

But... but.. but... He shot an UNARMED black man! POLICE BRUTALITY!!! March in the streets and burn some shit!!!!

Get me a TV while you’re at it.

 

[Marine Cpl]

@Shadow2 , I hear what your saying, but this isnt a regular fist fight over some dirty looks or disrespectful words(ive had more of those than most people and know the difference in peoples body language and levels of aggression). This is an angry animal intent on getting away from a violent crime he committed, hes attacking an armed officer thats pointing a gun at him. What led up to it makes a BIG difference.

To go even further @Shadow2 , you don't have to be a cop. Suppose he did what he did to that woman and you are just walking by and he came at you because you witnessed it or he needed your money to get away? What would you do in that case? Risk fighting with your fists, get knocked out, and put others in harm's way when he takes your gun?

A fair fight fight were both parties agree to go outside is one thing. An unprovoked attack is another.

 

[Shadow2]

I agree this situation is sticky ... but you cant deny the slippery slop that you can go down by condoning the shooting of unarmed people.

@Shadow2 , I hear what your saying, but this isnt a regular fist fight over some dirty looks or disrespectful words(ive had more of those than most people and know the difference in peoples body language and levels of aggression). This is an angry animal intent on getting away from a violent crime he committed, hes attacking an armed officer thats pointing a gun at him. What led up to it makes a BIG difference.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Should've been using a .45.