Another ICE shooting in MN.

subsonic

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Beerman said:
Guns and protests…. Seems like we think it’s ok sometimes, not others.

Anyone remember that kid that used his rifle on protestors in Kenosha, WI? :beer:
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Let me make this really simple for you.

You have a right to bear arms peaceably and in self defense.

You have no right to bear arms in the commission of a crime, in fact, bearing a deadly weapon in commission of a crime is itself a serious felony.

"That kid" had a gun at a riot to protect himself and other property. He wasn't protesting anything much less rioting, harassing or intimidating anyone, or committing any crime.

I am completely out of patience for people who will excuse riot, assault, or harassment when someone has a gun on them. You fuck around with a gun you should be prepared to die.

You can see your hero spitting and kicking out a law enforcement taillight in that video, and you can also see multiple angles of the scene leading up to his death where he jumped between and shoved a cop before attempting to "dearrest" a woman and then struggled with them after being taken to the ground (e.g. resisting arrest while armed). Acting in concert with a mob of at least 50 who were pursuing, surrounding, and harassing officers by blowing deafening whistles etc. None of that is protected lawful speech, assembly, or petitioning whatsoever. Prettyboy signed his own death warrant and I'm over feeling the slightest bit bad for him, most especially because he was literally following in Renee Good's footsteps.
 
Beerman

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subsonic said:
Let me make this really simple for you.

You have a right to bear arms peaceably and in self defense.

You have no right to bear arms in the commission of a crime, in fact, bearing a deadly weapon in commission of a crime is itself a serious felony.

"That kid" had a gun at a riot to protect himself and other property. He wasn't protesting anything much less rioting, harassing or intimidating anyone, or committing any crime.

I am completely out of patience for people who will excuse riot, assault, or harassment when someone has a gun on them. You fuck around with a gun you should be prepared to die.

You can see your hero spitting and kicking out a law enforcement taillight in that video, and you can also see multiple angles of the scene leading up to his death where he jumped between and shoved a cop before attempting to "dearrest" a woman and then struggled with them after being taken to the ground (e.g. resisting arrest while armed). Acting in concert with a mob of at least 50 who were pursuing, surrounding, and harassing officers by blowing deafening whistles etc. None of that is protected lawful speech, assembly, or petitioning whatsoever. Prettyboy signed his own death warrant and I'm over feeling the slightest bit bad for him, most especially because he was literally following in Renee Good's footsteps.
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Nice rant. As I said, sometimes it’s ok to bring a gun to an “event” and sometimes it is not ok. Context matters.
 
Celt

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stokes said:
Wouldnt need that shit if the local pussy LEO's did their job. ICE and BP dont have riot squads, PD does.
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True, local LE should absolutely be cooperating. If they were there would be much less chaos, but the mayor/governor want chaos to use as ammo against the right.

I dont like the paid protestors, agitators, etc... i do support the right for people to peacefully protest, and i strongly support their right to be armed while doing so, even if i dont support their ideology.

I think my biggest gripe with this whole thing is how Bovino, Noem called this guy a terrorist just because he was carrying, and Trump joined in on this. Im still waiting to hear your opinion on that from my post above.
 
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GOPerfect

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The 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution protects five core freedoms from government infringement:

freedom of religion, speech, press, assembly, and petition.

Assembly: Guarantees the right of people to gather together for peaceful protests, rallies, and demonstrations.

I am all about our Rights under the US Constitution.

Nothing these people are doing is protected. As far as I am concerned, all of them are Terrorists. All of them.

As per 18 U.S.C. § 2331:

Acts:
Violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that violate U.S. criminal laws.

Intent:
To intimidate or coerce a civilian population, influence government policy by coercion, or affect government conduct by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping.


To hell with all of them.

Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups to further ideological goals stemming from domestic influences, such as those of a political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature.

I am a defended of the Second Amendment. Period. All stop.

There is no if or but or even an however.

These people are in fact, committing acts of terrorism on US soil. They are bringing weapons to their terror events.

Again, I say fuck them.
 
ECU Pirates

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GOPerfect said:
The 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution protects five core freedoms from government infringement:

freedom of religion, speech, press, assembly, and petition.

Assembly: Guarantees the right of people to gather together for peaceful protests, rallies, and demonstrations.

I am all about our Rights under the US Constitution.

Nothing these people are doing is protected. As far as I am concerned, all of them are Terrorists. All of them.

As per 18 U.S.C. § 2331:

Acts:
Violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that violate U.S. criminal laws.

Intent:
To intimidate or coerce a civilian population, influence government policy by coercion, or affect government conduct by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping.


To hell with all of them.

Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups to further ideological goals stemming from domestic influences, such as those of a political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature.

I am a defended of the Second Amendment. Period. All stop.

There is no if or but or even an however.

These people are in fact, committing acts of terrorism on US soil. They are bringing weapons to their terror events.

Again, I say fuck them.
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Were the Jan 6 people terrorists?
 
GOPerfect

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ECU Pirates said:
Just withhold foreign aid to some dump. There's the money! All law enforcement should have body cameras.
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As for the cameras, hell, I wish the US had the money to put BWC on each and every government employee that deals with the public.

This would include teachers, DMV workers.... All of them.

Just not really possible to do this.
 
ECU Pirates

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GOPerfect said:
Some were, absolutely.

One of the biggest complaints that I had against Trump was the blanket pardon that he gave to many of them.
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I figured you would have common sense on that topic. I also think some were. Many seem to think they were all exercising the 1A. I also think some of the people in Minnesota are terrorists and some aren't. I really don't understand wanting to protect illegal criminals but if they are being peaceful they have the right to be idiots.
 
ECU Pirates

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GOPerfect said:
As for the cameras, hell, I wish the US had the money to put BWC on each and every government employee that deals with the public.

This would include teachers, DMV workers.... All of them.

Just not really possible to do this.
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For that we would have to withhold all foreign aid for a month haha
 
stokes

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Celt said:
Noem called this guy a terrorist just because he was carrying,
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I dont see it as "just because" it was also because of the way he acts at these peaceful protests, See the vid GOP posted of this asswipe. Does he have the right to legally carry at a demonstration, ok, but if your gonna fight with LE expect to get shot. Fuck him.
 
Steal2B

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stokes said:
I dont see it as "just because" it was also because of the way he acts at these peaceful protests, See the vid GOP posted of this asswipe. Does he have the right to legally carry at a demonstration, ok, but if your gonna fight with LE expect to get shot. Fuck him.
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The dead asshole had a history of multiple times he was in a violent altercation against immigration / border law enforcement in Minneapolis. If cops were there to arrest him, maybe he would still be alive.



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spat

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GOPerfect said:
As for the cameras, hell, I wish the US had the money to put BWC on each and every government employee that deals with the public.

This would include teachers, DMV workers.... All of them.

Just not really possible to do this.
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It's technically and financially not a problem.

It's politically that you run into a major roadblock.

We're not too far away from having the ability to have an AI process every second of video from every body cam and generate a report about every crime it sees.

That could get *very* interesting.
 
Celt

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stokes said:
I dont see it as "just because" it was also because of the way he acts at these peaceful protests, See the vid GOP posted of this asswipe. Does he have the right to legally carry at a demonstration, ok, but if your gonna fight with LE expect to get shot. Fuck him.
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I don't disagree that if you fight with law enforcement while armed you are absolutely increasing your risks of being killed. No doubt about that.

I still think that mistakes were made by the ICE agents, and Petti in this specific situation, and that he didnt need to be shot to be dealt with. But it was a chaotic situation that he put himself into and the results were bad.

Again, if you are legally armed and end up in a negative situation with LE your chances of things going wrong are much worse. So the lesson is be peaceful and avoid trouble while carrying.
 
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spat

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Celt said:
I don't disagree that if you fight with law enforcement while armed you are absolutely increasing your risks of being killed. No doubt about that.

I still think that mistakes were made by the ICE agents, and Petti in this specific situation, and that he didnt need to be shot to be dealt with. But it was a chaotic situation that he put himself into and the results were bad.

Again, if you are legally armed and end up in a negative situation with LE your chances of things going wrong are much worse. So the lesson is be peaceful and avoid trouble while carrying.
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I suspect that there was an ND by the officer who removed the gun.

And that was interpreted by other officers who didn't know Pretti had been disarmed at that point as him firing it.

While it's a shitty situation all around, the only person breaking the law there was pretti.

The officer who disarmed him obviously wasn't, even if he mishandled the gun and caused an ND.

The other officers who were fighting with Pretti, and reasonably believed he was still armed, on hearing a gun shot would have easily met the "reasonable officer believes there is serious risk of death/injury" standard.

So they would have been justified in firing at that point as well.
 
Celt

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spat said:
I suspect that there was an ND by the officer who removed the gun.

And that was interpreted by other officers who didn't know Pretti had been disarmed at that point as him firing it.

While it's a shitty situation all around, the only person breaking the law there was pretti.

The officer who disarmed him obviously wasn't, even if he mishandled the gun and caused an ND.

The other officers who were fighting with Pretti, and reasonably believed he was still armed, on hearing a gun shot would have easily met the "reasonable officer believes there is serious risk of death/injury" standard.

So they would have been justified in firing at that point as well.
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Thats what Ive gathered from this as well.
 
spat

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ECU Pirates said:
I agree. Domestic terrorist gets throw around a bit too freely.
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Yes, people seem to forget what "terrorism" actually is, and they want to apply it to everyone they disagree with.

The operative part of the word "terrorism" is terror. A terrorist is someone attempting to effect political change by causing fear in the civilian population.

So, violence isn't necessary, only the fear of it. But violence that doesn't create fear in the general public or isn't intended to effect political change isn't terrorism.
 
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As for the dead guy.

After seeing the newer, (newer as in later released) video of the dead guy attacking ICE a few days early; I say that his death is 100% on the city, the Police of Minneapolis and the femboi mayor.

If the local police were on scene, which they should have been, he would have been arrested, charged and booked into jail.

Due to the charges that should have been laid upon him, he should have received high bail, or no bail at all.

If that were to have occurred, he would not have been fighting with ICE the day he gave his life defending illegal invaders.

I hope the family sues the ever living shit out of the city.
 
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