US and Iran conflict thread. ( merged threads)

spat

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Defilade said:
Such an easy way to scare the populace into believing and shout 24/7 "They can't have Nukes!" Didn't we use that cry with Saddam? You know the one who attacked the Twin Towers?? Fear is the greatest emotion as it worked wonders during Covid and the sheep lined up to get their Jab.... What will be the cry for Cuba in the future? Greenland? BTW we are over 2 months in. I'm sure Iran's ability has be eliminated with the constant bombing campagin. I would be willing to bet they are defenseless at this point which is another major issue we created.
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In 2000 there were 3 regimes Bush branded as the "axis of evil". Say what you want about the Bushes, he was right about them.

We tried the bribery and appeasement game with North Korea.

We tried the regime change game with Iraq.

Guess which one got nukes.

So, which strategy makes sense to pursue in Iran ?
 
FP1201

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Defilade said:
Obviously we didn't
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Oh we learned lots, and until we put a stop to radical islamic terrorism (we've suffered hundreds of attacks worldwide) by completely exterminating the fuckers with extreme prejudice, the attacks, infiltration and assimilation will continue. What has historically stayed in that part of the World has come to our Shores...Remember the 9-1-1 excuse for going into battle: If we don't stop it over there, it will come here, and here we are.
On a side note: There have been very well researched and compelling arguments made that 9-1-1 was an inside job perpetrated by the Israelis to take care of what they couldn't, but since few will accept anything besides the "Official Narrative" there's little chance anything will ever become of it.
 
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Robin

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The main, and virtually sure thing tactical stratagem of the left has been and currently is, to sow division into the ranks of the opponent. It is working.
Robin
 
Drinkthekoolaid

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Defilade said:
www.nbcnews.com

Trump says he’s not thinking about Americans’ finances ‘even a little bit’ in Iran talks

Trump said the “only thing” that matters is Iran “can’t have a nuclear weapon.”
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
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It's still never been clearly explained how this time it was different, that Iran really was "2 weeks away' from getting a bomb.

It's been said so many times over the years. Trump himself even said after operation midnight Hammer that their nuclear program was wiped out.

I don't understand the disconnect here. It isn't adding up to me.

It's not wrong to ask questions and be skeptical. And for the record I do not want Iran to get a nuke.
 
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Saltwater60 said:
They attack us and our allies through proxies. It’s a well known fact they back pirates, Houthis, hezbullah and other known terror groups.
I’m not trying to be a jerk but did you say the same thing about Ukraine?
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No I did not.( if I understand your question correctly.) I never backed Ukraine for some of the same reasons I dont back Israel
 
Defilade

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spat said:
In 2000 there were 3 regimes Bush branded as the "axis of evil". Say what you want about the Bushes, he was right about them.

We tried the bribery and appeasement game with North Korea.

We tried the regime change game with Iraq.

Guess which one got nukes.

So, which strategy makes sense to pursue in Iran ?
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Until you understand that the number one profiteer of all time is Wars only then will you realize what it is for. Eisenhower warned us many years ago as did Smedley Butler about the Military industrial complex. All they have to do is sell it to the American people with a Boogyman or False flag to get everyone aboard. Fear Sells!
 
spat

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Defilade said:
Until you understand that the number one profiteer of all time is Wars only then will you realize what it is for. Eisenhower warned us many years ago as did Smedley Butler about the Military industrial complex. All they have to do is sell it to the American people with a Boogyman or False flag to get everyone aboard. Fear Sells!
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What you say isn't wrong.

But that doesn't mean you can ignore threats either.

We tried isolationism twice last century, it didn't work out very well for anyone, twice.

Then we decided the world needed a policeman, and we've had the most peaceful 75 years in human history.

You *sure* you want to give isolationism a try again ? Imagine a world where China steps up to take our place. How do you think that will play out for us ?
 
Defilade

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spat said:
What you say isn't wrong.

But that doesn't mean you can ignore threats either.

We tried isolationism twice last century, it didn't work out very well for anyone, twice.

Then we decided the world needed a policeman, and we've had the most peaceful 75 years in human history.

You *sure* you want to give isolationism a try again ? Imagine a world where China steps up to take our place.be ok now How do you think that will play out for us ?
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Well as far as China goes the Peace President has been over there makings deals so I guess China must be ok now??
 
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Drinkthekoolaid said:
It's still never been clearly explained how this time it was different, that Iran really was "2 weeks away' from getting a bomb.

It's been said so many times over the years. Trump himself even said after operation midnight Hammer that their nuclear program was wiped out.

I don't understand the disconnect here. It isn't adding up to me.

It's not wrong to ask questions and be skeptical. And for the record I do not want Iran to get a nuke.
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Iranians are not stupid people; do you not think they could have gained and developed at least the same technology America did 80 years ago?
For fucks sake, India and Pakistan BOTH have Nuclear Bombs and Jeet's aren't exactly known for their intellectual acumen.
 
Drinkthekoolaid

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FP1201 said:
Iranians are not stupid people; do you not think they could have gained and developed at least the same technology America did 80 years ago?
For fucks sake, India and Pakistan BOTH have Nuclear Bombs and Jeet's aren't exactly known for their intellectual acumen.
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No, I think the Persians are pretty smart and resourceful to be able to do what they have with so many sanctions essentially making them function on an island.

I'm sure they have also gotten some support from their friends in NK, Russia etc...


My point was merely, we've been hearing for about a decade that Iran is imminent danger of getting the bomb in weeks or months. We've been told that for a literal decade. We bombed them in midnight hammer to destroy their infrastructure. We were told it was successful and their program was destroyed.

We were just told again, they are 2 weeks from getting nukes and we have to act.



Those facts are not aligned. They very obviously contradict. Something is off and people are lying.


I was suckered into the Iraq WMD claims so I'm hesitant to fall for this again. I want to know the truth on what is happening, and why.

Again, I absolutely do not want Iran to get nukes. Then they essentially become a more unstable instigating North Korea. NK has essentially guaranteed their survival now short of nuking them pre-emptively. I don't want to see Iran in that position.


But that brings me back to my point .... The story doesn't add up. It doesn't make sense. We were being lied to previously, we have been lied to, or we are being lied to.
 
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Drinkthekoolaid said:
No, I think the Persians are pretty smart and resourceful to be able to do what they have with so many sanctions essentially making them function on an island.

I'm sure they have also gotten some support from their friends in NK, Russia etc...


My point was merely, we've been hearing for about a decade that Iran is imminent danger of getting the bomb in weeks or months. We've been told that for a literal decade. We bombed them in midnight hammer to destroy their infrastructure. We were told it was successful and their program was destroyed.

We were just told again, they are 2 weeks from getting nukes and we have to act.



Those facts are not aligned. They very obviously contradict. Something is off and people are lying.


I was suckered into the Iraq WMD claims so I'm hesitant to fall for this again. I want to know the truth on what is happening, and why.

Again, I absolutely do not want Iran to get nukes. Then they essentially become a more unstable instigating North Korea. NK has essentially guaranteed their survival now short of nuking them pre-emptively. I don't want to see Iran in that position.


But that brings me back to my point .... The story doesn't add up. It doesn't make sense. We were being lied to previously, we have been lied to, or we are being lied to.
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"I was suckered into the Iraq WMD claims " did you? Iirc every Democrat said he had them and he needed to go. Every repub. said the same thing. Then for some unknown reasons we told him we would be back in 1yr at 8:00 am to check. Over that time period lines of heavy trucks were seen night vision going to Syria, why?
Later THEY GASSED the population.
So I'm not sure you were suckered.
 
spat

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Defilade said:
Well as far as China goes the Peace President has been over there makings deals so I guess China must be ok now??
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Just because you make deals doesn't make them not enemies.

We made lots of deals with Stalin.

And every armistice ever was technically a deal with an enemy.

When this Iran thing ends, it will be via a deal of some sort.
 
spat

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fresch said:
"I was suckered into the Iraq WMD claims " did you? Iirc every Democrat said he had them and he needed to go. Every repub. said the same thing. Then for some unknown reasons we told him we would be back in 1yr at 8:00 am to check. Over that time period lines of heavy trucks were seen night vision going to Syria, why?
Later THEY GASSED the population.
So I'm not sure you were suckered.
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He was suckered, but not by the people claiming he had WMDs.

He was suckered by the people claiming he didn't.

So, basic questions. Do you think Iran was pursuing a nuclear weapon and an ICBM ?

What do you think they would *do* with those if they were allowed to get them ?
 
Drinkthekoolaid

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spat said:
He was suckered, but not by the people claiming he had WMDs.

He was suckered by the people claiming he didn't.

So, basic questions. Do you think Iran was pursuing a nuclear weapon and an ICBM ?

What do you think they would *do* with those if they were allowed to get them ?
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I believe very likely Iran was making significant efforts to develop ICBMs and nukes.

I'm not disputing that at all.
 
spat

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Drinkthekoolaid said:
I believe very likely Iran was making significant efforts to develop ICBMs and nukes.

I'm not disputing that at all.
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I think they *had* ICBMs. They fired a couple at Diego Garcia that proved to have enough range to hit most of Europe.

But, what do you think they would have done with the nukes once they developed them ?

Imagine their current tantrum, but with nukes. They have attacked most of the rest of the middle east.

If they decide to claim the straight and charge a transit fee *after* getting nukes, they would be much more difficult to deal with.
 
Drinkthekoolaid

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spat said:
I think they *had* ICBMs. They fired a couple at Diego Garcia that proved to have enough range to hit most of Europe.

But, what do you think they would have done with the nukes once they developed them ?

Imagine their current tantrum, but with nukes. They have attacked most of the rest of the middle east.

If they decide to claim the straight and charge a transit fee *after* getting nukes, they would be much more difficult to deal with.
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You're right, I'm not disputing or contesting any of that.

I'm merely concerned that we either were previously lied to about Irans nuclear program, or we are being lied to currently. It can't be both things.

That's my issue. I'm trying to not allow myself to be be manipulated on emotional appeals.


Did midnight hammer work? Trump himself said it destroyed their program.
 
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Saltwater60 said:
Why would they want it to go on forever? Long wars are costly in many ways and the politics of them suck. It’s political suicide these days.
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They need Iran neutralized. Not a ceasefire. They want them out of the picture . Since the US will aid and help fund it It makes sense to continue .
 
spat

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Drinkthekoolaid said:
You're right, I'm not disputing or contesting any of that.

I'm merely concerned that we either were previously lied to about Irans nuclear program, or we are being lied to currently. It can't be both things.

That's my issue. I'm trying to not allow myself to be be manipulated on emotional appeals.


Did midnight hammer work? Trump himself said it destroyed their program.
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What did Trump *actually* say it destroyed ?

And what does "destroyed their program" mean ?

Midnight hammer was about as successful as it could be. It destroyed their enrichment facilities and probably set them back a couple years.

But, that's not "the program".

Nothing short of regime change can really "destroy the program" fully, because as long as they are working on a bomb, there is a program. Even if you killed every scientist and destroyed every piece of equipment, if they still have the will they will start again from scratch
 
Drinkthekoolaid

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spat said:
What did Trump *actually* say it destroyed ?

And what does "destroyed their program" mean ?

Midnight hammer was about as successful as it could be. It destroyed their enrichment facilities and probably set them back a couple years.

But, that's not "the program".

Nothing short of regime change can really "destroy the program" fully, because as long as they are working on a bomb, there is a program. Even if you killed every scientist and destroyed every piece of equipment, if they still have the will they will start again from scratch
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Here is Trump's quote:
"Tonight, I can report to the world that the strikes were a spectacular military success. Iran's key nuclear enrichment facilities have been completely and totally obliterated,"
 
spat

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Drinkthekoolaid said:
Here is Trump's quote:
"Tonight, I can report to the world that the strikes were a spectacular military success. Iran's key nuclear enrichment facilities have been completely and totally obliterated,"
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And what wasn't true about that ?

The enrichment facilities *were* destroyed.

But they would be rebuilt within a couple years and we'd have to do it again. Everyone understood that.

Go look back at the posts here about the midnight hammer strikes from a year ago. I believe I said we would know within 6 months if they were successful based on activity at the sites.

Well, those sites never got unburied, let alone rebuilt, so I'd sat midnight hammer was *wildly* successful.
 
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