US and Iran conflict thread. ( merged threads)

holdover said:

I got no problem with that.


bullshit.




No I never hated people because they were Jewish. I dont hate muslims because they are muslim I dont hate black people because they're black .
Zionism is a fairly recent militant ideology that has little to do with the Jewish faith.

what I do hate is the genocide in Gaza on our dime.I hate the fact We are at war because of Israel . I do hate the fact that zionism and the greater israel project is a real thing. They believe they have the right to an ancestral homeland of Israel. problem is its huge part of the mid east , not the dinky state they have now. Israels national policy is expansionist. God promised them the land a few thousand years ago Yeah I have a problem with that. apparently you dont . I dont support the butchering of children. Israli snipers shooting kids in head . WTF?

Zionism has evolved into a state ideology that continues to justify the occupation, colonisation, and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. It plays a central role in Israeli policy, which includes illegal settlements, apartheid laws, and military aggression, especially visible today in the ongoing siege and genocide in Gaza. 3

Many Jewish people around the world do not support Zionism and see it as a betrayal of their faith’s core values. Zionism has hijacked Judaism, turning a rich spiritual and ethical tradition into a nationalist, colonial project. Criticising Zionism is not antisemitic; it’s a stand against racism, colonialism, and genocide.

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Bullshit.

Every word of that is completely bullshit.

Isreal has never initiated a conflict. Every piece of territory they have ever gained was a result of people attacking them first and them defending themselves.

They would be perfectly happy with the 1948 boundaries if their neighbors just stopped trying to kill them.

And they have every right to kill anyone chanting "from the river to the sea" anywhere. If that happens to be 1/2 the population of Gaza, then FAFO I guess.

spat said:

Isreal has never initiated a conflict.

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What are you drinking? they just attacked iran . Man your in denial of reality

spat said:

They would be perfectly happy with the 1948 boundaries if their neighbors just stopped trying to kill them.

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Oh the professional victims excuse . like the syrians they bombed for that last ten yerars? they were in the middle of a civil war and Isreal kept bombing them almost daily. syrians couldnt even hit them back

spat said:

And they have every right to kill anyone chanting "from the river to the sea" anywhere. If that happens to be 1/2 the population of Gaza, then FAFO I guess.

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Nah theyre going for the whole population, over 20,000 kids dead so far . and you paid for it

holdover said:

I

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holdover said:

Zionism has evolved into a state ideology that continues to justify the occupation, colonisation, and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. It plays a central role in Israeli policy, which includes illegal settlements, apartheid laws, and military aggression, especially visible today in the ongoing siege and genocide in Gaza. 3

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Lol. Talk about drinking Kool aid. Do you have an official hamas membership card since you spout their propaganda so well?

thats the thing it isnt propaganda. If you would take some time and look it up you would know that, but you dont want to hear the truth. They are butchering people with your tax dollars .

No they revoked my Hamas card because my tax dollars were being spent to kill them

holdover said:

What are you drinking? they just attacked iran . Man your in denial of reality

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Iran has been attacking Isreal for decades via their proxies.

Where do you think the money for the Hamas "pay for slay" program comes from ?

It's not even subtle.

When Iran claims that Isreali strikes against Hezzbolla violate their cease fire with Iran, they're not even pretending anymore.

Where do you come up with this idea that no matter what happens to Isreal that they're just supposed to sit back and take it ?

They've shown incredible restraint. Far too much restraint in my opinion.

tirwin1 said:

It's been pointed out the term Zionist is as out of date as the phrase 'abolitionist'. Slavery ended so long ago no one uses the term abolitionist anymore. "Zionists" were people who believed jews should have their own country in the middle east. Well, Israel has been a nation for 75 years now. So the term zionist is as out of date as abolitionist. Unless you are a jew hater and want to disguise your bigotry so you keep using the phrase zionist.

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Ehh. Doesn't matter Jew hater or not. Not our problems!

spat said:

Iran has been attacking Isreal for decades via their proxies.

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So your saying the Israel and the US attacked Iran was self defense? Oh boy .If thats what you believe,

How do you see this mess ending? A simple regime change? Is that what you think? knock off the bad apples and the rest of Iran will be waving American and Israeli flags on their porches?

I would think that Iran would see that it has no other alternative but to submit to Israel and the US or obtain nuclear weapons . We have put them in a position where they now have no choice but to go forward . Which will eventually require us to have to go in with a large scale ground war , maybe 6 months to a year , maybe more. Were already pulling troops out of bases across the globe . its going to be giant shit show , I dont think there is any going back now. there are no assurances the US can give because we spent our credibility. I sure as hell wouldnt trust the US after being attacked during negotiations, so diplomacy is almost off the table at the moment. Iran can say sure we agree not to make nukes , but we know they have little choice now but to obtain them . the die is cast. Not sure when, but a major war will happen.

I dont see any regime change as being successful. I dont see any ground war going smoothly either. It will cost us a lot more blood and treasure than Iran Iraq did thats for dam sure. I value our servicemen's lives, I value our treasury and our people. I dont see this as an absolutely necessary
act of self defense , where we had no other choice but to put our men in harms way

holdover said:

So your saying the Israel and the US attacked Iran was self defense? Oh boy .If thats what you believe,

How do you see this mess ending? A simple regime change? Is that what you think? knock off the bad apples and the rest of Iran will be waving American and Israeli flags on their porches?

I would think that Iran would see that it has no other alternative but to submit to Israel and the US or obtain nuclear weapons . We have put them in a position where they now have no choice but to go forward . Which will eventually require us to have to go in with a large scale ground war , maybe 6 months to a year , maybe more. Were already pulling troops out of bases across the globe . its going to be giant shit show , I dont think there is any going back now. there are no assurances the US can give because we spent our credibility. I sure as hell wouldnt trust the US after being attacked during negotiations, so diplomacy is almost off the table at the moment. Iran can say sure we agree not to make nukes , but we know they have little choice now but to obtain them . the die is cast. Not sure when, but a major war will happen.

I dont see any regime change as being successful. I dont see any ground war going smoothly either. It will cost us a lot more blood and treasure than Iran Iraq did thats for dam sure. I value our servicemen's lives, I value our treasury and our people. I dont see this as an absolutely necessary
act of self defense , where we had no other choice but to put our men in harms way

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Iran will absolutely not stop trying to obtain a nuclear weapon unless they are physically prevented from doing so.

And if they *do* obtain a nuclear weapon it is only a matter of time before they use it.

You might be OK with Tel Aviv glowing in the dark. You'd probably say they deserved it with your twisted logic. But how about NY, LA, *and* DC ?

How can you possibly reconcile your belief that Hamas was justified in Oct 7th, but Isreal *isn't* justified in what we're doing ?

There is a noticeable cycle going on. Each president blames his predecessor for starting wars or conflicts around the world and once elected does the same thing. It doesn't always involve Middle East and in most cases, especially in the past, Israel had nothing to do with it.

spat said:

Iran will absolutely not stop trying to obtain a nuclear weapon unless they are physically prevented from doing so.

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At this point yes. We agree( for once)

spat said:

And if they *do* obtain a nuclear weapon it is only a matter of time before they use it.

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possibly

spat said:

You might be OK with Tel Aviv glowing in the dark. You'd probably say they deserved it with your twisted logic. But how about NY, LA, *and* DC ?

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Well, perhaps if We stop killing them, they may reconsider , How's that twisted logic work? If We keep bombing the living shit out of them what would you expect? Especially when Trump could have told Bibi the butcher No, We cant join your attack your on your own if you do . You know, America first and shit.

spat said:

How can you possibly reconcile your belief that Hamas was justified in Oct 7th, but Isreal *isn't* justified in what we're doing ?

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Its really fucking simple, Hamas did the Oct 7th attack, Not Iran. Thats how I justify it . For you Zionists , Its all just one big blob of muslims, they are all guilty, kill them all. I dont know how your twisted logic justifies that .

Belive it or not, the Palestinians have a whole list of reasons they want to attack Israel , Interests of Iran and Palestine converge, Iran sends aid sells weapons to hamas . but they are not Hamas

If a black gun store owner legally sold weapons to a radical black panther group who used those weapons on an attack against whites you dont arrest the store owner because his Ideology converges .

Iran may provide the means , like we do in Ukraine doesnt mean they are guilty of an attack . thats utter garbage .

if Iran was behind oct 7th, why the fuck didnt they use drones in conjunction ? Iran produces drones by the thousands

holdover said:

At this point yes. We agree( for once)


possibly



Well, perhaps if We stop killing them, they may reconsider , How's that twisted logic work? If We keep bombing the living shit out of them what would you expect? Especially when Trump could have told Bibi the butcher No, We cant join your attack your on your own if you do . You know, America first and shit.



Its really fucking simple, Hamas did the Oct 7th attack, Not Iran. Thats how I justify it . For you Zionists , Its all just one big blob of muslims, they are all guilty, kill them all. I dont know how your twisted logic justifies that .

Belive it or not, the Palestinians have a whole list of reasons they want to attack Israel , Interests of Iran and Palestine converge, Iran sends aid sells weapons to hamas . but they are not Hamas

If a black gun store owner legally sold weapons to a radical black panther group who used those weapons on an attack against whites you dont arrest the store owner because his Ideology converges .

Iran may provide the means , like we do in Ukraine doesnt mean they are guilty of an attack . thats utter garbage .

if Iran was behind oct 7th, why the fuck didnt they use drones in conjunction ? Iran produces drones by the thousands

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Hamas *is* Iran. They're a wholly owned subsidiary.

Saying Hamas isn't Iran is like saying "we weren't responsible for the bay of pigs, that was just revolutionaries".

The chain of command for Hamas ends 100% with the IRGC.

spat said:

Hamas *is* Iran. They're a wholly owned subsidiary.

Saying Hamas isn't Iran is like saying "we weren't responsible for the bay of pigs, that was just revolutionaries".

The chain of command for Hamas ends 100% with the IRGC.

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whatever you belive. Im sure you can verify it without pro Israeli sources right?


You cant quote from Zionist today magazine

Israeli Support for Hamas: A Strategic Move:​

Eminent former Israeli officials, such as Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev and Avner Cohen, have openly acknowledged Israel’s financial and logistical support for the Palestinian Islamist movement. The Israeli backing of Hamas aimed to strategically counterbalance the dominance of secularist and leftist factions within the Palestinian political landscape. Avner Cohen, for instance, cautioned against a divide-and-rule approach and advised against favoring Palestinian Islamists over their secular counterparts.


Times of Israel:
For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group.

The idea was to prevent Abbas — or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government — from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state.



The Israeli government has been involved in assisting or empowering the Palestinian political and military organization Hamas at various points in its history.[a] This support continued during and in spite of active military hostilities between the two sides.

holdover said:

whatever you belive. Im sure you can verify it without pro Israeli sources right?


You cant quote from Zionist today magazine

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You really live in a different world don't you.

Iran's control of Hamas, Hezzbollah, and the Houthis aren't really disputed by any serious scholar of the middle east. There is no question of "if", just "how closely".

A deal has been reached, but only needs to be signed off by Trump and Iran’s dealers.
Hopefully this thread will no longer be needed.

holdover said:

whatever you belive. Im sure you can verify it without pro Israeli sources right?


You cant quote from Zionist today magazine

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Damn. I'm not sure if you believe some of the horseshit you post, or if your just toying with others on this forum.

From my training (US Naval War College) and experience in the middle east (yeah I have led a blessed life and been told by more than one FBI agent [updating my security clearances or preparing for interviews with me during clearance checks for people who were naive enough to use me as a reference] that I may have the most redacted file they've seen), from social conversations about recent deployments with young US military officers, and from social conversations with friends / classmates from CentCom it is universally understood .....

Hezbollah in Lebanon is Iran's most heavily armed proxy, which functions as both a major political party and is a paramilitary force almost exclusively funded, armed, and commanded by Iran.The Houthis in Yemen is a proxy rebel movement that controls large portions of Yemen and launches Iranian provided drone / missiles in coordination with Iran and again is almost exclusively armed and funded by Iran. Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad in Gaza act as as Sunni militant groups that diectly receive funding and weapons from Iran (in spite of them being Sunni) for the sole purpose of targeting Israel. It should be noted there is no love between Hamas and Iran in part by the Shiite / Sunni divide but their militant sectors share a hatred for Israel and the West. Funding from Shiite Militias in Iraq and Syria are mostly umbrella of groups (Kataib) Hezbollah and Asaib Ahl al-Haqq that are funded (almost exclusively because they are Shiite) and used directly by Iran to target U.S. interests within their strike capability.

It's not hard for anyone with at least one working finger to find multiple sources outside of Israel to confirm these facts on their own.

spat said:

Hamas *is* Iran. They're a wholly owned subsidiary.

Saying Hamas isn't Iran is like saying "we weren't responsible for the bay of pigs, that was just revolutionaries".

The chain of command for Hamas ends 100% with the IRGC.

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Hamas was created by Israel to fight against leftist PLO. Just a historic fact.

Mosinitis said:

Hamas was created by Israel to fight against leftist PLO. Just a historic fact.

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And we created the Taliban to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan.

That doesn't mean they stayed our allies forever.

Hamas was the lesser of 2 evils. Just like Stalin in WWII (although, it's arguable he *wasn't* the lesser evil there).

Iran has been controlling and funding Hamas for a long time, and still do so to this day.

If the Iranian regime falls, Hamas, Hezzbollah, and the Houthis will go down with them, and the middle east might actually have a chance at peace for the first time in a very long time.

spat said:

Hamas was the lesser of 2 evils. Just like Stalin in WWII (although, it's arguable he *wasn't* the lesser evil there).

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Lol. Incoming response from the kremlin lover in 3, 2, 1....

spat said:

You really live in a different world don't you.

Iran's control of Hamas, Hezzbollah, and the Houthis aren't really disputed by any serious scholar of the middle east. There is no question of "if", just "how closely".

https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IF12587

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No problem to post sources then

Steal2B said:

Damn. I'm not sure if you believe some of the horseshit you post, or if your just toying with others on this forum.

From my training (US Naval War College) and experience in the middle east (yeah I have led a blessed life and been told by more than one FBI agent [updating my security clearances or preparing for interviews with me during clearance checks for people who were naive enough to use me as a reference] that I may have the most redacted file they've seen), from social conversations about recent deployments with young US military officers, and from social conversations with friends / classmates from CentCom it is universally understood .....

Hezbollah in Lebanon is Iran's most heavily armed proxy, which functions as both a major political party and is a paramilitary force almost exclusively funded, armed, and commanded by Iran.The Houthis in Yemen is a proxy rebel movement that controls large portions of Yemen and launches Iranian provided drone / missiles in coordination with Iran and again is almost exclusively armed and funded by Iran. Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad in Gaza act as as Sunni militant groups that diectly receive funding and weapons from Iran (in spite of them being Sunni) for the sole purpose of targeting Israel. It should be noted there is no love between Hamas and Iran in part by the Shiite / Sunni divide but their militant sectors share a hatred for Israel and the West. Funding from Shiite Militias in Iraq and Syria are mostly umbrella of groups (Kataib) Hezbollah and Asaib Ahl al-Haqq that are funded (almost exclusively because they are Shiite) and used directly by Iran to target U.S. interests within their strike capability.

It's not hard for anyone with at least one working finger to find multiple sources outside of Israel to confirm these facts on their own.

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Well I just listed israel sources so your the one that's needs to read up on it

holdover said:

No problem to post sources then

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I posted the US congress already.

Here's the wall street journal saying it.


If you want more, there's a pretty good list in the references section on the Wikipedia article for it.

holdover said:

Well I just listed israel sources so your the one that's needs to read up on it

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Read up on what?

BTW

Mosinitis said:

Hamas was created by Israel to fight against leftist PLO. Just a historic fact.

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Thank you.

Steal2B said:

Read up on what?

BTW
View attachment 283543

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On the horse shit I posted.

"""

Steal2B said:

Damn. I'm not sure if you believe some of the horseshit you post, or if your just toying with others on this forum.

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I assume your refering to the creation of Hamas by Israel .

Thing is, you never read what I posted. you dismissed it as horse shit without looking into it. because the thought of it is so outrageous ,( which it is ,) none the less its true. you wouldnt know that because your to biased to look at it . The truth is a fucked up thing.

Your a big boy, you've been around the block a few times you should know this .

everything in the intelligence world is surrounded by lies , half truths false storys , 99% of what the public gets is filtered altered shaped molded , to present a particular view , you know that.

spat said:

I posted the US congress already.

Here's the wall street journal saying it.

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/hamas-fighters-trained-in-iran-before-oct-7-attacks-e2a8dbb9

If you want more, there's a pretty good list in the references section on the Wikipedia article for it.

Iranian support for Hamas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

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written by Dov Lieber in Tel Aviv ??? tell me your joking.

But for the sake of argument for the next 6 pages , Ill say its probable , it makes sense. However It doesnt mean Iran is directly attacking Israel , thats a stretch. Weve trained al Queda, Kurds, and just about anyone else that converges with our interests. Its a dirty game , no doubt

With that logic , Russia is justified to launch a full scale nuclear war against us .

spat said:

And we created the Taliban to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan.

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Al Qaeda, not Taliban

The director of the National Security Agency under Ronald Reagan, General William Odom recently remarked, “by any measure the U.S. has long used terrorism. In 1978-79 the Senate was trying to pass a law against international terrorism – in every version they produced, the lawyers said the U.S. would be in violation.”

During the 1970’s the CIA used the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt as a barrier, both to thwart Soviet expansion and prevent the spread of Marxist ideology among the Arab masses. The United States also openly supported Sarekat Islam against Sukarno in Indonesia, and supported the Jamaat-e-Islami terror group against Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto in Pakistan. Last but certainly not least, there is Al Qaeda.

Lest we forget, the CIA gave birth to Osama Bin Laden and breastfed his organization during the 1980’s. Former British Foreign Secretary, Robin Cook, told the House of Commons that Al Qaeda was unquestionably a product of Western intelligence agencies. Mr. Cook explained that Al Qaeda, which literally means an abbreviation of “the database” in Arabic, was originally the computer database of the thousands of Islamist extremists, who were trained by the CIA and funded by the Saudis, in order to defeat the Russians in Afghanistan.
The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) used to have a different name: Al Qaeda in Iraq. After 2010 the group rebranded and refocused its efforts on Syria.

There are essentially three wars being waged in Syria: one between the government and the rebels, another between Iran and Saudi Arabia, and yet another between America and Russia. It is this third, neo-Cold War battle that made U.S. foreign policy makers decide to take the risk of arming Islamist rebels in Syria, because Syrian President, Bashar al-Assad, is a key Russian ally. Rather embarrassingly, many of these Syrian rebels have now turned out to be ISIS thugs, who are openly brandishing American-made M16 Assault rifles.

America’s Middle East policy revolves around oil and Israel. The invasion of Iraq has partially satisfied Washington’s thirst for oil, but ongoing air strikes in Syria and economic sanctions on Iran have everything to do with Israel. The goal is to deprive Israel’s neighboring enemies, Lebanon’s Hezbollah and Palestine’s Hamas, of crucial Syrian and Iranian support.

ISIS is not merely an instrument of terror used by America to topple the Syrian government; it is also used to put pressure on Iran.

The last time Iran invaded another nation was in 1738. Since independence in 1776, the U.S. has been engaged in over 53 military invasions and expeditions. Despite what the Western media’s war cries would have you believe, Iran is clearly not the threat to regional security, Washington is. An Intelligence Report published in 2012, endorsed by all sixteen U.S. intelligence agencies, confirms that Iran ended its nuclear weapons program in 2003. Truth is, any Iranian nuclear ambition, real or imagined, is as a result of American hostility towards Iran, and not the other way around.

America is using ISIS in three ways: to attack its enemies in the Middle East, to serve as a pretext for U.S. military intervention abroad, and at home to foment a manufactured domestic threat, used to justify the unprecedented expansion of invasive domestic surveillance.