Israeli-American ties, good or bad? Somewhere in between?

Isreal wants that fucking land period, at all costs!! try to get that through your head . the greater Isreal project is real . thats what they want ,
They are worse than the NAZIs

Since the beginning of the Gaza war on 7 October 2023, the Israeli military and authorities committed numerous war crimes, such as the collective punishment of the Palestinian people, attacks on civilians in densely populated areas (including bombings of hospitals and medical facilities, refugee camps, schools and educational institutions, and municipal services); the torture and executions of civilians; sexual violence including rape; and genocide. Further war crime charges against Israel include forced evacuations, mistreatment and torture of Palestinian prisoners, and the destruction of cultural heritage. Humanitarian organizations such as Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, B'tselem, and Oxfam, as well as human rights groups and experts, including the UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry and United Nations special rapporteurs, have documented these actions.[1] wiki

Amnesty International:

As Israeli forces continue to intensify their cataclysmic assault on the occupied Gaza Strip, Amnesty International has documented unlawful Israeli attacks, including indiscriminate attacks, which caused mass civilian casualties and must be investigated as war crimes.

The organization spoke to survivors and eyewitnesses, analysed satellite imagery, and verified photos and videos to investigate air bombardments carried out by Israeli forces between 7 and 12 October, which caused horrific destruction, and in some cases wiped out entire families. Here the organization presents an in-depth analysis of its findings in five of these unlawful attacks. In each of these cases, Israeli attacks violated international humanitarian law, including by failing to take feasible precautions to spare civilians, or by carrying out indiscriminate attacks that failed to distinguish between civilians and military objectives, or by carrying out attacks that may have been directed against civilian objects.

“In their stated intent to use all means to destroy Hamas, Israeli forces have shown a shocking disregard for civilian lives. They have pulverized street after street of residential buildings killing civilians on a mass scale and destroying essential infrastructure, while new restrictions mean Gaza is fast running out of water, medicine, fuel and electricity. Testimonies from eyewitness and survivors highlighted, again and again, how Israeli attacks decimated Palestinian families, causing such destruction that surviving relatives have little but rubble to remember their loved ones by,” said Agnès Callamard, Amnesty International’s Secretary General.

“The five cases presented barely scratch the surface of the horror that Amnesty has documented and illustrate the devastating impact that Israel’s aerial bombardments are having on people in Gaza. For 16 years, Israel’s illegal blockade has made Gaza the world’s biggest open-air prison – the international community must act now to prevent it becoming a giant graveyard. We are calling on Israeli forces to immediately end unlawful attacks in Gaza and ensure that they take all feasible precautions to minimize harm to civilians and damage to civilian objects. Israel’s allies must immediately impose a comprehensive arms embargo given that serious violations under international law are being committed.”

Since 7 October Israeli forces have launched thousands of air bombardments in the Gaza Strip, killing at least 3,793 people, mostly civilians, including more than 1,500 children, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza. Approximately 12,500 have been injured and more than 1,000 bodies are still trapped beneath the rubble.

In Israel, more than 1,400 people, most of them civilians, have been killed and some 3,300 others were injured, according to the Israeli Ministry of Health after armed groups from the Gaza Strip launched an unprecedented attack against Israel on 7 October. They fired indiscriminate rockets and sent fighters into southern Israel who committed war crimes including deliberately killing civilians and hostage-taking. The Israeli military says that fighters also took more than 200 civilian hostages and military captives back to the Gaza Strip.

“Amnesty International is calling on Hamas and other armed groups to urgently release all civilian hostages, and to immediately stop firing indiscriminate rockets. There can be no justification for the deliberate killing of civilians under any circumstances,” said Agnès Callamard.


At around 8:20pm on 7 October, Israeli forces struck a three-storey residential building in the al-Zeitoun neighbourhood of Gaza City, where three generations of the al-Dos family were staying. Fifteen family members were killed in the attack, seven of them children. The victims include Awni and Ibtissam al-Dos, and their grandchildren and namesakes Awni, 12, and Ibtissam, 17; and Adel and Ilham al-Dos and all five of their children. Baby Adam, just 18 months old, was the youngest victim.

On 10 October, an Israeli air strike on a family home killed 12 members of the Hijazi family and four of their neighbours, in Gaza City’s al-Sahaba Street. Three children were among those killed. The Israeli military stated that they struck Hamas targets in the area but gave no further information and did not provide any evidence of the presence of military targets. Amnesty International’s research has found no evidence of military targets in the area at the time of the attack.

US STATE DEPT .EXECUTIVE SUMMARY​

On October 7, Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and other Palestinian terrorists launched a large-scale attack on Israel from the Gaza Strip, killing an estimated 1,200 individuals, injuring more than 5,400, and abducting 253 hostages. Israel responded with a sustained, wide-scale military operation in Gaza, which had killed more than 21,000 Palestinians and injured more than 56,000 by the end of the year, displaced the vast majority of Palestinians in Gaza, and resulted in a severe humanitarian crisis. The continuing conflict had a significant negative impact on the human rights situation in the country.
Significant human rights issues included credible reports of: arbitrary or unlawful killings, including extrajudicial killings; enforced disappearance; torture or cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment by government officials; harsh and life-threatening prison conditions; arbitrary arrest or detention; political prisoners or detainees; arbitrary or unlawful interference with privacy; punishment of family members for alleged offenses by a relative; serious abuses in a conflict by Hamas and Israel, including unlawful or widespread civilian deaths and harm, enforced disappearances or abductions, torture, physical abuses, and conflict-related sexual violence or punishment; serious restrictions on freedom of expression and media freedom, including violence or threats against journalists, unjustified arrests or prosecution of journalists, and censorship; substantial interference with the freedom of peaceful assembly and freedom of association; restrictions on freedom of movement and residence; serious government restrictions on or harassment of domestic and international human rights organizations; and crimes involving violence or threats of violence targeting members of national, racial, or ethnic minority groups.
The government took some credible steps to identify and punish officials who may have committed human rights abuses.
This report covers Israel within the 1949 Armistice Agreement lines as well as the Golan Heights and East Jerusalem territories that Israel occupied during the June 1967 war and where it later extended its domestic law, jurisdiction, and administration. The United States recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel in 2017 and Israel’s sovereignty over the Golan Heights in 2019. Language in this report is not meant to convey a position on any final status issues to be negotiated between the parties to the conflict, including the specific boundaries of Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem or the borders between Israel and any future Palestinian state.


Am I gonna believe you or the US fucking state dept? Id say your full of shit as usual

Hey, you think the Palestinians should have thier own state?

holdover said:

but bombing refugee camps and stopping food from coming in never happened right?

Click to expand...

You spelled "hamas headquarters" wrong.

*why* would Isreal bomb a refugee camp or a hospital if Hamas wasn't using it as a base ?

What reason would they have to do it ?

holdover said:

Hey, you think the Palestinians should have thier own state?

Click to expand...

I don't think "Palestinian" is a legitimate identity.

The people who lived in that area before about 1967 were Isrealis, Egyptians, or Jordanians.

You might as well ask if the Manhattanites deserve their own state.

Furthermore, they have proven themselves incapable managing a state of their own.

Isreal handed them Gaza, and they tore it apart.

holdover said:

Isreal wants that fucking land period, at all costs!! try to get that through your head . the greater Isreal project is real . thats what they want ,
They are worse than the NAZIs

Click to expand...

Isreal tried to give it back to Egypt, and *they wouldn't take it* because the fuckers living there are so much trouble.

Egypt took the rest of the offered land, but they refused to take Gaza.

Then they built a wall that makes the one the Isreali's have look like a white picket fence.

You know why the Egyptians don't have the same problems with hamas as the Isrealis ? Because they just kill them when they try to cross the border. Isreal should do the same.

holdover said:

US STATE DEPT .EXECUTIVE SUMMARY​

On October 7, Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and other Palestinian terrorists launched a large-scale attack on Israel from the Gaza Strip, killing an estimated 1,200 individuals, injuring more than 5,400, and abducting 253 hostages. Israel responded with a sustained, wide-scale military operation in Gaza, which had killed more than 21,000 Palestinians and injured more than 56,000 by the end of the year, displaced the vast majority of Palestinians in Gaza, and resulted in a severe humanitarian crisis. The continuing conflict had a significant negative impact on the human rights situation in the country.
Significant human rights issues included credible reports of: arbitrary or unlawful killings, including extrajudicial killings; enforced disappearance; torture or cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment by government officials; harsh and life-threatening prison conditions; arbitrary arrest or detention; political prisoners or detainees; arbitrary or unlawful interference with privacy; punishment of family members for alleged offenses by a relative; serious abuses in a conflict by Hamas and Israel, including unlawful or widespread civilian deaths and harm, enforced disappearances or abductions, torture, physical abuses, and conflict-related sexual violence or punishment; serious restrictions on freedom of expression and media freedom, including violence or threats against journalists, unjustified arrests or prosecution of journalists, and censorship; substantial interference with the freedom of peaceful assembly and freedom of association; restrictions on freedom of movement and residence; serious government restrictions on or harassment of domestic and international human rights organizations; and crimes involving violence or threats of violence targeting members of national, racial, or ethnic minority groups.
The government took some credible steps to identify and punish officials who may have committed human rights abuses.
This report covers Israel within the 1949 Armistice Agreement lines as well as the Golan Heights and East Jerusalem territories that Israel occupied during the June 1967 war and where it later extended its domestic law, jurisdiction, and administration. The United States recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel in 2017 and Israel’s sovereignty over the Golan Heights in 2019. Language in this report is not meant to convey a position on any final status issues to be negotiated between the parties to the conflict, including the specific boundaries of Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem or the borders between Israel and any future Palestinian state.

Technical Difficulties

Am I gonna believe you or the US fucking state dept? Id say your full of shit as usual

Click to expand...

None of that looks like it disagrees with me on anything.

spat said:

You spelled "hamas headquarters" wrong.

*why* would Isreal bomb a refugee camp or a hospital if Hamas wasn't using it as a base ?

What reason would they have to do it ?

Click to expand...

Seriously? dont pretend to be stupid. The intention was/ is to drive the people from Gaza and the fact they consider them to be Almelek or sub human . they want them out. Killing kids and civilians mean they are killing off the next generation. They are making it soooo horrible in Gaza that nobody will want to come back . (unfortuneately for both sides its not working ?

Why burn and bulldoze houses? and aparment buildings? BECAUSE THEY DONT WANT ANYONE COIMMING BACK, EVER

spat said:

None of that looks like it disagrees with me on anything.

Click to expand...

what do mean? your OK with killing them or yes those war crimes have been commmitted?

spat said:

I don't think "Palestinian" is a legitimate identity.

The people who lived in that area before about 1967 were Isrealis, Egyptians, or Jordanians.

You might as well ask if the Manhattanites deserve their own state.

Furthermore, they have proven themselves incapable managing a state of their own.

Isreal handed them Gaza, and they tore it apart.

Click to expand...

your a sick fucking guy

holdover said:

Seriously? dont pretend to be stupid. The intention was/ is to drive the people from Gaza and the fact they consider them to be Almelek or sub human . they want them out. Killing kids and civilians mean they are killing off the next generation. They are making it soooo horrible in Gaza that nobody will want to come back . (unfortuneately for both sides its not working ?

Why burn and bulldoze houses? and aparment buildings? BECAUSE THEY DONT WANT ANYONE COIMMING BACK, EVER

Click to expand...

I'm not the one who's irrational here.

If Isreal *wanted* that land they'd take it.

They just want the attacks to stop.

They *gave* Gaza to them free and clear in 2005.
All they had to do was stop attacking Isreal and they could have turned that strip of land into the Monaco of the middle east.

But their hatred of Isreal wouldn't let them.

holdover said:

your a sick fucking guy

Click to expand...

And you're delusional.

spat said:

If Isreal *wanted* that land they'd take it.

Click to expand...

They are in the process of taking it right now . what universe are youin? they said they want the land and they are driving out anyone thats in it. They evencut off the fucking water .

spat said:

And you're delusional.

Click to expand...

Look we cant have this discussion anymore than the Israelis and the Palestinians. were just on two different pages . I dont want to discuss it with you any further , your crazy.

holdover said:

what do mean? your OK with killing them or yes those war crimes have been commmitted?

Click to expand...

I'm absolutely OK with Isreal killing every supporter of Hamas down to the last man.

Just like I'm OK with the way they hunted the Nazi's down after WWII.

I think Isreal hasn't been nearly aggressive enough for their own good.

The report you cited didn't conclude war crimes were committed. It merely said they were reported. I have no doubt that all manner of things have been reported.

Find a case where an actual war crime has been *proven* and the Isrealis didn't prosecute the person committing it themselves.

On the other hand, Hamas commits war crimes as a matter of policy.

If Hamas launches rockets from the roof of a hospital, and Isreal bombs it, the only war crime there was committed by Hamas.

holdover said:

Look we cant have this discussion anymore than the Israelis and the Palestinians. were just on two different pages . I dont want to discuss it with you any further , your crazy.

Click to expand...

Yea, I'm in the real world and you're in some crazy land where you think the good guys were the ones who invaded Isreal on Oct 7th.l

spat said:

Yea, I'm in the real world and you're in some crazy land where you think the good guys were the ones who invaded Isreal on Oct 7th.l

Click to expand...

And your the one that thinks its OK to spend American tax dollars butchering civilians for the last 80 years . Im talking with a guy who has no morality or sense of allegiance. Your a zionist Im an American. We'll never see eye to eye . its really a waste of time .

spat said:

I'm absolutely OK with Isreal killing every supporter of Hamas down to the last man.

Click to expand...

I dont have a problem with that, the issue is with the methods ,

spat said:

The report you cited didn't conclude war crimes were committed. It merely said they were reported.

Click to expand...

Thats right. You dont seriously think anyone is going to end up in the Hauge do you?

Nothing is going to happen, not to us or them . that doesnt mean it never happened

spat said:

Find a case where an actual war crime has been *proven* and the Isrealis didn't prosecute the person committing it themselves.

Click to expand...

find a case where anyone has been tried.

spat said:

On the other hand, Hamas commits war crimes as a matter of policy.

Click to expand...

and they are reported as haveing done so also.

spat said:

If Hamas launches rockets from the roof of a hospital, and Isreal bombs it, the only war crime there was committed by Hamas.

Click to expand...

apparently Hamas has fired rockets from every single Hospital in Gaza, 36 Hospitals all gone , they dont get any kind of protection from doing it , so why do it ? and of course you have proof of hamas fireing rockets from all the hospitals in Gaza right?

spat said:

Isreal tried to give it back to Egypt, and *they wouldn't take it* because the fuckers living there are so much trouble.

Click to expand...

Nobody wants a million fucking refugees in thier country. common sense. because they are so much trouble is jewish propaganda

spat said:

I'm not the one who's irrational here.

If Isreal *wanted* that land they'd take it.

They just want the attacks to stop.

They *gave* Gaza to them free and clear in 2005.
All they had to do was stop attacking Isreal and they could have turned that strip of land into the Monaco of the middle east.

But their hatred of Isreal wouldn't let them.

Click to expand...

They "gave" them the land and then blockaded the fuck out of them, sort of like the USA did with native Americans. "Here you can have this land, but it's in the middle of the fucking desert and has no real resources, there's your "reservation", now go shoot your bow and arrows or some shit." Israel started the blockade in 2005, hamas took over in 2006/2007 depending on if you base it on elections or the battle of Gaza. The blockade predates hamas attacks.

I think a few separate things are true here:

1. The Israelis want the land and they want the Palestinians out, but they don't have the stomach for the Israeli deaths it would take to accomplish the goal.
2. They want the attacks to stop.
3. They hate them because they hate them due to religious differences. This would still be the case even without the attacks.

holdover said:

Nobody wants a million fucking refugees in thier country. common sense. because they are so much trouble is jewish propaganda

Click to expand...

Maybe because everyone who's ever offered to take palestinian refugees has regretted it.

Here's a quick list, just off the top of my head.

Jordan took some. They murdered the king and tried to overthrow the government.

Kuwait took some. They sided with Iraq during the invasion.

Egypt took some, guess what they did. Yep, if you said "terrorist attacks and attempt to overthrow the government" you win the prize.

Guess what happened in Lebanon and Syria when the Palestinians showed up.

spat said:

Maybe because everyone who's ever offered to take palestinian refugees has regretted it.

Here's a quick list, just off the top of my head.

Jordan took some. They murdered the king and tried to overthrow the government.

Kuwait took some. They sided with Iraq during the invasion.

Egypt took some, guess what they did. Yep, if you said "terrorist attacks and attempt to overthrow the government" you win the prize.

Guess what happened in Lebanon and Syria when the Palestinians showed up.

Click to expand...

yeah yeah yeah.

SonOfSun said:

They "gave" them the land and then blockaded the fuck out of them, sort of like the USA did with native Americans. "Here you can have this land, but it's in the middle of the fucking desert and has no real resources, there's your "reservation", now go shoot your bow and arrows or some shit." Israel started the blockade in 2005, hamas took over in 2006/2007 depending on if you base it on elections or the battle of Gaza. The blockade predates hamas attacks.

I think a few separate things are true here:

1. The Israelis want the land and they want the Palestinians out, but they don't have the stomach for the Israeli deaths it would take to accomplish the goal.
2. They want the attacks to stop.
3. They hate them because they hate them due to religious differences. This would still be the case even without the attacks.

Click to expand...

Why is it always Isreal that's blamed when they had as nearly as long of a border with Egypt ?

And is it unreasonable to stop them from shipping in rockets and components when their stated goal is to kill everyone in your country, and they prove they mean it daily ?

SonOfSun said:

They "gave" them the land and then blockaded the fuck out of them, sort of like the USA did with native Americans. "Here you can have this land, but it's in the middle of the fucking desert and has no real resources, there's your "reservation", now go shoot your bow and arrows or some shit." Israel started the blockade in 2005, hamas took over in 2006/2007 depending on if you base it on elections or the battle of Gaza. The blockade predates hamas attacks.

I think a few separate things are true here:

1. The Israelis want the land and they want the Palestinians out, but they don't have the stomach for the Israeli deaths it would take to accomplish the goal.
2. They want the attacks to stop.
3. They hate them because they hate them due to religious differences. This would still be the case even without the attacks.

Click to expand...

Isreal literally tried to give Gaza back to Egypt at the end of the 6 day war along with the rest of the territory they had taken. Egypt took the rest but *refused* to take Gaza back.

*Nobody* wants Gaza. If it was a radioactive wasteland it would be more desirable property than it is infested with Hamas and their sympathizers.

If Egypt was forced to take it, they would probably go in and kill everyone who could hold a rifle.

Can't be the religious differences. There's tons of Muslims that live peacefully in Isreal. They hold elected office in the highest echelons of their legislature, and they serve with distinction in the IDF.

It's not a religious thing for the Jews.

holdover said:

I dont have a problem with that, the issue is with the methods ,


Thats right. You dont seriously think anyone is going to end up in the Hauge do you?

Nothing is going to happen, not to us or them . that doesnt mean it never happened



find a case where anyone has been tried.

and they are reported as haveing done so also.


apparently Hamas has fired rockets from every single Hospital in Gaza, 36 Hospitals all gone , they dont get any kind of protection from doing it , so why do it ? and of course you have proof of hamas fireing rockets from all the hospitals in Gaza right?

Click to expand...

When IDF soldiers commit crimes they are prosecuted and imprisoned if found guilty.

Hamas holds literal parades where their rape squads display the naked bodies of their victims like trophies.

They are not the same.



Has an IDF Soldier Ever Been Convicted of Manslaughter? - The Israel Democracy Institute Has an IDF Soldier Ever Been Convicted of Manslaughter?

spat said:

When IDF soldiers commit crimes they are prosecuted and imprisoned if found guilty.

Click to expand...

LOL Ok. keep drinking the Koolaid . How many went to jail for killing women and children? tens of thousands have been killed, and you just ignore it , because thats the kind of guy you are .

holdover said:

LOL Ok. keep drinking the Koolaid . How many went to jail for killing women and children? tens of thousands have been killed, and you just ignore it , because thats the kind of guy you are .

Click to expand...

It's a war. Tens of thousands are going to die. That's not a crime.

It's only a crime if you target civilians, not if they are merely collateral damage from a legitimate military target.

The rampant perfidity from Hamas makes basically every structure in Gaza a legitimate target.

But, when IDF soldiers cross the line they *are* prosecuted, and if it can be proven they *do* go to prison.

It amazes me how you can turn normal urban combat into a "war crime" when it's the IDF, but excuse the worst sorts of atrocities from Hamas because "dem Jews had it coming"

spat said:

The rampant perfidity from Hamas makes basically every structure in Gaza a legitimate target.

Click to expand...

You really believe that shit? That makes you a retard or a liar