Poll on Supporting or not supporting Israel

Do you support Israel's policy's and should we continue to give them billion's in weapons and aid ?

  • Yes, We should continue to fully support Israel ?

    Votes: 19 57.6%

  • No, We need to cut or reduce the amount of support to Israel

    Votes: 14 42.4%
  • Total voters
    33
  • This poll will close: .
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holdover

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This seems to be a hot topic on the internet today , I know a lot of people dont want to openly say ,

there appears to be only a small handful of us debating the topic , but I was interested in asking the forum how they felt .

(personally I think the forum is heavily favoring support for Israel but would like to know ) votes will remain anonymous
 
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Drinkthekoolaid

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FP1201 said:
I'm fine with being friends, Military allies, Trade partners, but there is no legitimate reason for paying their Bills; a successful Country should not be receiving welfare from Uncle Sam, help America and Americans FIRST!
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This is very close to my opinion as well
 
spat

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holdover said:
Anti Zionism isn NOT anti Semitism, But the brain washed cant differentiate between the two .They hide behind the word though they dont know what it means. Isreal first are traitors to the US deserving of a traitors fate
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What is it you think Zionism is that anyone should oppose it ?

Because in the real world Zionism is just the belief that the Jews are entitled to a soverign homeland in roughly the current location of Isreal.

That makes anti-zionism the belief that Isreal shouldn't exist. Literally a call for genocide.

As for "Palestine", that's basically Jordan. Who owns the tiny sliver that was the west bank is not all that significant. If could be Isreal, or it could be Jordan, but there isn't a 3rd option, and historically there never was.

Same with Gaza and Egypt.
 
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holdover

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spat said:
Because in the real world Zionism is just the belief that the Jews are entitled to a soverign homeland in roughly the current location of Isreal.
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thats an over simplification . ZIonts are pushing the greater Israel idea , which covers large amounts of the mid east

Jewish self-determination and the existence of a sovereign Jewish state in the historic land of Israel have already been established . Zionists want to expand the region at the expense of everyone that borders her . zionists are crushing the Palestinians and removeing them from Gaza with force

Greater Israel ("Eretz Israel HaShlema"): A broader ideological concept drawing from biblical texts (such as Genesis 15:18), which envisions a state stretching across parts of surrounding countries—variously including Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Egypt (Sinai), and parts of Saudi Arabia. [1, 2, 3]

They proclaim God himself promised the land to them 3000 years ago . therefore are justifed in the elimination of anyone who opposes them

Benjiman satanato has proclaimed the arabs as Amaleck , subhumans to be destroyed , genocide is a policy given by God .

It is not just the establishment of the Jewish state. that goal has been achieved .

spat said:
That makes anti-zionism the belief that Isreal shouldn't exist. Literally a call for genocide.
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No it doesnt . Your victim card has been declined .

Israels policy IS genocide decreed by thier God 3000 years ago. There are many Jewish people that are anti Zionist it doesn't make them anti semtetic. tired of hearing that story. its utter bullshit.

My problen with Zionism is the amout of tax payers money that gos to support this state for the last 75 years . Enough already. We have our own issues now. and now were stuck in a war for the defense of Israel for which we will receive nothing but the bill.

You cant serve 2 masters Your either pro US or pro Israel. no more welfare. we did more than our share to help them , thats enough






    • Palestinian Deaths in Gaza: Over 73,900 to 75,225+ direct deaths have been recorded by health authorities, with independent studies and UN analyses indicating the toll may be a significant undercount due to bodies trapped under rubble and indirect deaths from famine, disease, and lack of healthcare. [1, 2, 3]
    • Demographics: Women and children make up a large portion of the casualties (with children representing roughly 29% of direct documented deaths). [1]
    • Injuries: More than 175,068 people have been wounded in Gaza. [1]
    • Initial Attack on Israel: The conflict began on October 7, 2023, when Hamas-led militants attacked southern Israel, killing 1,195 people (mostly civilians) and taking 251 hostages. [1]
    • Israeli Fatalities: Total Israeli fatalities across the broader conflict (including military and security personnel) stand at over 2,046. [1]
 
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northny

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I have made several trips to Israel on business. Always took an extra day or two to tour the country. As a Jesuit educated catholic I found their core values ( family democracy fairness) very similar.

I find it interesting that people object to military aid we provide Israel Yet they seem not to object to military aid AND TROOPS we provide Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Germany and nato countries since WWII. I would much rather provide aid to countries that defend themselves.
 
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holdover

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northny said:
I have made several trips to Israel on business. Always took an extra day or two to tour the country. As a Jesuit educated catholic I found their core values ( family democracy fairness) very similar.

I find it interesting that people object to military aid we provide Israel Yet they seem not to object to military aid AND TROOPS we provide Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Germany and nato countries since WWII. I would much rather provide aid to countries that defend themselves.
Click to expand...

Did you get to vist the settlers living in stolen homes?Not sure their core values ( family democracy fairness) are similar at all .

Land expropriation in the West Bank refers to the practices employed by the State of Israel to take over Palestinian land in the occupied West Bank. From 1969 to 2019 Israel had issued over 1,150 military seizure orders alone to that purpose.[1]In the occupied West Bank, Palestinian families have faced widespread home takeovers, land expropriation, and forced displacement by Israeli settlers and outposts, a process widely described by human rights monitors and affected communities as state-backed dispossession





its not personal, Dont give any of them aid. Fuck em all, Does that make me anti German Japanese Korean Taiwanese ? Shit, Im ALL for it . America first why not? I dont see anybody giving money to us . (Not the politicians obviously they're getting massive kickbacks, the more they give the more they get
 
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Defilade

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holdover said:
Did you get to vist the settlers living in stolen homes?Not sure their core values ( family democracy fairness) are similar at all .

Land expropriation in the West Bank refers to the practices employed by the State of Israel to take over Palestinian land in the occupied West Bank. From 1969 to 2019 Israel had issued over 1,150 military seizure orders alone to that purpose.[1]In the occupied West Bank, Palestinian families have faced widespread home takeovers, land expropriation, and forced displacement by Israeli settlers and outposts, a process widely described by human rights monitors and affected communities as state-backed dispossession





its not personal, Dont give any of them aid. Fuck em all, Does that make me anti German Japanese Korean Taiwanese ? Shit, Im ALL for it . America first why not? I dont see anybody giving money to us . (Not the politicians obviously they're getting massive kickbacks, the more they give the more they get
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40 trillion in debt. We have no business giving ANY Country a dime!!
 
Criticalt

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northny said:
I have made several trips to Israel on business. Always took an extra day or two to tour the country. As a Jesuit educated catholic I found their core values ( family democracy fairness) very similar.

I find it interesting that people object to military aid we provide Israel Yet they seem not to object to military aid AND TROOPS we provide Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Germany and nato countries since WWII. I would much rather provide aid to countries that defend themselves.
Click to expand...
I believe this is where people get it wrong, or simply do not understand.
For many of us not wanting to fund Isreal it has NOTHING to do with their religion or who they are.
The vast majority of us in the "No" camp, don't give a damn about their god. We don't want American funding ANY country, including Japan, South Korea, Germany....NONE of them.
I honestly really don't know the difference between Christians, Jews, or Muslims, and I don't care.
I was raised in a very Christian home, much more than most, but it never really stuck with me.
If a country helps us, we may be able to help them out occasionally when they have issues. But just shelling out BILLIONS of dollars to countries that dont do much for us, just no.
With shills like Ted Cruz out there just pounding the pavement for Isreal makes me believe there are shenanigans at play. Money, power, or sex...its one of the three.
 
GOPerfect

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northny said:
I have made several trips to Israel on business. Always took an extra day or two to tour the country. As a Jesuit educated catholic I found their core values ( family democracy fairness) very similar.

I find it interesting that people object to military aid we provide Israel Yet they seem not to object to military aid AND TROOPS we provide Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Germany and nato countries since WWII. I would much rather provide aid to countries that defend themselves.
Click to expand...
I am against tax dollars going to aid any other country.

I would love to see a 100% pull out of our military from all countries around the world.
 
GOPerfect

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Criticalt said:
I believe this is where people get it wrong, or simply do not understand.
For many of us not wanting to fund Isreal it has NOTHING to do with their religion or who they are.
The vast majority of us in the "No" camp, don't give a damn about their god. We don't want American funding ANY country, including Japan, South Korea, Germany....NONE of them.
I honestly really don't know the difference between Christians, Jews, or Muslims, and I don't care.
I was raised in a very Christian home, much more than most, but it never really stuck with me.
If a country helps us, we may be able to help them out occasionally when they have issues. But just shelling out BILLIONS of dollars to countries that dont do much for us, just no.
With shills like Ted Cruz out there just pounding the pavement for Isreal makes me believe there are shenanigans at play. Money, power, or sex...its one of the three.
Click to expand...


Come to the side of your ancestors, there is always room for one more .
 
spat

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holdover said:
thats an over simplification . ZIonts are pushing the greater Israel idea , which covers large amounts of the mid east

Jewish self-determination and the existence of a sovereign Jewish state in the historic land of Israel have already been established . Zionists want to expand the region at the expense of everyone that borders her . zionists are crushing the Palestinians and removeing them from Gaza with force

Greater Israel ("Eretz Israel HaShlema"): A broader ideological concept drawing from biblical texts (such as Genesis 15:18), which envisions a state stretching across parts of surrounding countries—variously including Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Egypt (Sinai), and parts of Saudi Arabia. [1, 2, 3]

They proclaim God himself promised the land to them 3000 years ago . therefore are justifed in the elimination of anyone who opposes them

Benjiman satanato has proclaimed the arabs as Amaleck , subhumans to be destroyed , genocide is a policy given by God .

It is not just the establishment of the Jewish state. that goal has been achieved .


No it doesnt . Your victim card has been declined .

Israels policy IS genocide decreed by thier God 3000 years ago. There are many Jewish people that are anti Zionist it doesn't make them anti semtetic. tired of hearing that story. its utter bullshit.

My problen with Zionism is the amout of tax payers money that gos to support this state for the last 75 years . Enough already. We have our own issues now. and now were stuck in a war for the defense of Israel for which we will receive nothing but the bill.

You cant serve 2 masters Your either pro US or pro Israel. no more welfare. we did more than our share to help them , thats enough






    • Palestinian Deaths in Gaza: Over 73,900 to 75,225+ direct deaths have been recorded by health authorities, with independent studies and UN analyses indicating the toll may be a significant undercount due to bodies trapped under rubble and indirect deaths from famine, disease, and lack of healthcare. [1, 2, 3]
    • Demographics: Women and children make up a large portion of the casualties (with children representing roughly 29% of direct documented deaths). [1]
    • Injuries: More than 175,068 people have been wounded in Gaza. [1]
    • Initial Attack on Israel: The conflict began on October 7, 2023, when Hamas-led militants attacked southern Israel, killing 1,195 people (mostly civilians) and taking 251 hostages. [1]
    • Israeli Fatalities: Total Israeli fatalities across the broader conflict (including military and security personnel) stand at over 2,046. [1]
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You can try to redefine the word zionism if you want, but that's simply not what it means.

There is no serious "greater Isreal" movement anywhere. They would all be quite happy with their existing borders if people would quit trying to kill them.

US and Isreali interests in the middle east are closely aligned. You cannot be pro US and anti Isreal. That would be like trying to be pro US and anti British during WWII.

It's quite obvious that you have been fully captured by propaganda from anti-US forces. It's the same tired rhetoric the isolationists pushed in WWII. "Yes, please stay out of world affairs until we have defeated all your potential allies and consolidated our hold"

Imagine what would have happened if the US stayed neutral till 1945.

If you think the axis wouldn't have come for us eventually, then you're delusional.
 
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Israel provides universal health care to all citizens and permanent residents under the National Health Insurance Law of 1995.

According to the Wikipedia Education in Israel overview, public universities are heavily subsidized by the government, meaning students pay a fraction of the actual cost—typically around $2,900 to $4,000 per year. Students who have completed their mandatory Israel Defense Forces (IDF) military service receive a 90% discount on their first-year tuition. [1] Costs Around 3-400 bucks a year.

The State of Israel requires every Israeli citizen over the age of 18 who is Jewish, Druze or Circassian to serve in the Israel Defense Forces .


The United States provides a baseline of $3.8 billion in military aid to Israel annually under a 10-year Memorandum of Understanding (2019–2028). However, this amount has increased significantly due to supplemental wartime funding packages. [1, 2]$3.3 billion per year. These are grants that Israel must use to purchase U.S. military equipment and services.

Following the outbreak of conflicts in late 2023, the U.S. authorized massive additional security assistance packages:
  • 2024 Supplemental Aid: A security package signed into law provided an additional $17 billion to $26 billion in multi-year funding, which included roughly $14 billion directly allocated for Israeli military operations, air defense replenishment, and U.S. military operations in the region. [1]
Congressional researchers have disclosed that between 1974 and 1989, $16.4 billion in U.S. military loans were converted to grants and that this was the understanding from the beginning.

So basically free healthcare, and free collage, and free money from US , and Free protection, We pay for that , and Im some kind of Neo Nazi skinhead because I question it ? for real?
 
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spat

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GOPerfect said:
Shut them off completely to anything that do not purchase at full market valued price.

They are NOT our ally.
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The problem is that a lot of stuff they *do* purchase at full market price is still counted as "aid" by the anti-semites who want to make them the boogy man.

I'm not sure how much (if anything) we actually "give" them. Certainly less than we give countries that actively hate us.

For instance a lot of outlets reported this as "$2.8B in aid to Isreal" and the purple hair crowd protested it on every campus in the land.

 
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spat said:
The problem is that a lot of stuff they *do* purchase at full market price is still counted as "aid" by the anti-semites who want to make them the boogy man.

I'm not sure how much (if anything) we actually "give" them. Certainly less than we give countries that actively hate us.

For instance a lot of outlets reported this as "$2.8B in aid to Isreal" and the purple hair crowd protested it on every campus in the land.

Click to expand...
Where the money goes:

Congress appropriates the funds, but the money generally stays in the United States. It goes directly to American defense contractors (like Lockheed Martin, RTX, and Boeing) to pay for military hardware—such as F-35 fighter jets, missiles, and ammunition—ordered by Israel.

In the end, the tax payers are on the hook for these vouchers.

I am not anti Jew or anti-Israel. I am Anti our money going to benefit other countries. I want NONE of our money going to anyone except American citizens.

I have become very, America Only. Fck all the rest. I do not care at all what happens to other countries or their peoples. Well, maybe one or two, but that is for personal reasons and still would not want our funds going to them.
 
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spat said:
The problem is that a lot of stuff they *do* purchase at full market price is still counted as "aid" by the anti-semites who want to make them the boogy man.
Click to expand...
From FY1974 through FY2003, Israel received more than $45 billion in military assistance structured as loans for which repayment was waived (effectively converting them into outright grants).

1974 (Post-October War): President Richard Nixon authorized converting $500 million of emergency military loans into grants, expanding on earlier congressional discretion to waive repayment on up to $1.5 billion.

974–2003 ("Waived Loans"): Rather than traditional grants—which required direct U.S. military oversight personnel on the ground—Congress provided assistance under the "Cranston Amendment" mechanism as loans with repayment waived, totaling over $45 billion through the early 2000s.

1985 (Transition to 100% Grants): Congress officially shifted Israel's military assistance package from a mix of loans/waived loans to 100% direct grants starting in fiscal year 1985. Economic assistance was similarly transitioned to direct cash grant transfers


Obama Administration (2009–2017):administration negotiated and signed a landmark 10-year Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) in 2016 providing $38 billion in military assistance (comprising $33 billion in Foreign Military Financing grants and $5 billion for missile defense) for the FY2019–FY2028 period

If you dont see the problem, you are the problem
 
spat

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holdover said:
From FY1974 through FY2003, Israel received more than $45 billion in military assistance structured as loans for which repayment was waived (effectively converting them into outright grants).

1974 (Post-October War): President Richard Nixon authorized converting $500 million of emergency military loans into grants, expanding on earlier congressional discretion to waive repayment on up to $1.5 billion.

974–2003 ("Waived Loans"): Rather than traditional grants—which required direct U.S. military oversight personnel on the ground—Congress provided assistance under the "Cranston Amendment" mechanism as loans with repayment waived, totaling over $45 billion through the early 2000s.

1985 (Transition to 100% Grants): Congress officially shifted Israel's military assistance package from a mix of loans/waived loans to 100% direct grants starting in fiscal year 1985. Economic assistance was similarly transitioned to direct cash grant transfers


Obama Administration (2009–2017):administration negotiated and signed a landmark 10-year Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) in 2016 providing $38 billion in military assistance (comprising $33 billion in Foreign Military Financing grants and $5 billion for missile defense) for the FY2019–FY2028 period

If you dont see the problem, you are the problem
Click to expand...
Sure, get rid of all that stuff.

But it's a drop in the bucket compared to the sales, and it's used to blow up our enemies, so I really don't care that much.

It's a better use than most of what our tax dollars are wasted on.
 
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