Anyone have experience using a Estate Attorney has handle firearm distribution?

thisIslandEarth

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I want to ensure my firearms are legally and smoothly distributed to specific people after I pass so my wife doesn't need to deal w/ it or in the event we both bought the farm. I want some to go to my brother and some to my brother-in-law. Just wondering if anyone in NYS has established a Specialized Gun Trust or included a Specific Bequest in a Will. I asked my attorney that we used 30 years ago if he would add a codicil and he almost had a stroke. I think NYS has some sort of 15-day thing in which the process to handle the firearms must be initiated.
 
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It's NY so there must be a protocol, that costs and is a pain. But, isn't that why we have lawyers? How hard is it to write on a paper I xyz do bequeath to bob ser# xXxX 357 River bla bla, etc and further bequeath to jim Ser # xXxX ... when I die.
Name date/ witness / name date/ notarized.
Stick it with your will.
???
 
Robin

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I'm sure NYS has a law for this type of situation. In fact, I'm sure there are three or seventeen parallel and contradictory laws that touch directly and indirectly on this and advise interested parties to call the state police hot line with their hopes and fears.
Robin
 
tirwin1

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I believe they must first go to an FFL until the will is executed. Then whatever process is followed for adding a new pistol in your county must be followed. For shotguns/rifles it's probably less onerous but I'm sure NYS has a roadblock or two. Of course legal advice on the internet is worth exactly what you pay for it so I highly recommend consulting an attorney. They should be able to set up something that gets the guns into their possession as soon as possible.
 
thughes

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This reminds me, I need to move the remainder of mine out of NY. That way, they can just be sold at the estate sale (just like the furniture and the tools in the garage).
 
kgun12

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My dad died in 2013, about five years before that all four brother and him sat down and divided up his guns and other valuables. My one brother was the executor and he wrote down all the choices. We all signed it, my brother took it to the attorney and he put it in my dad’s file. Towards the end we took the guns and other things before he passed. Everyone including the attorney was fine with it.
BTW, I’ve done the same thing with my two sons already!
 
C3D

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A trust doesn’t often work in NYS for this purpose (for handguns).

The reason is once you form and fund a trust (revocable or irrevocable), the guns are owned in the title of your name as trustee as fiduciary of the trust. So if you are John Smith, and you form a gun trust, the guns are owned by “John Smith as Trustee of the John Smith Irrevocable Trust of October 28, 2026”.

Section 7-1.18 of the Estate, Probate and Trust Law of New York requires assets that are capable of registration and belonging to a trust (where the trusts creator is also the trustee) to be registered and held in the name of the trust.

Most of the 48 handgun licensing authorities in NYS do not permit a license endorsement to be made in this fashion, as handgun licenses are issued to individuals and not to trusts under Article 400.00. Holding the gun on a license in your individual name while claiming a trust owns them would fail to comply 7-1.8 of the EPTL and cause the transfer of the handgun’s title to the trust to be invalidated.

An unfunded trust that you intend to receive ownership of the guns upon your death requires a testamentary instrument executed with proper formalities for that transfer to be effective, aka a will or codicil. So if you need to go down that route the trust is just extra headache on top of a will.
 
Brawny71

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My legal will couldn’t specify that. However my lawyer said a signed cover letter placed with the will was legal to put with it.
 
C3D

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Brawny71 said:
My legal will couldn’t specify that. However my lawyer said a signed cover letter placed with the will was legal to put with it.
Click to expand...


Well I guess your lawyer meant "legal" in the sense you won't go to jail for putting that letter with the will.

As a matter of estate law, however, that letter has no legal effect unless executed with testamentary formalities (i.e., as a codicil). And your executor would not have discretion to follow that letter's wishes unless all of the affected beneficiaries under your will consent to following the letter (or your heirs' consent under the laws of intestacy if you have no will).
 
C3D

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C3D said:
Well I guess your lawyer meant "legal" in the sense you won't go to jail for putting that letter with the will.

As a matter of estate law, however, that letter has no legal effect unless executed with testamentary formalities (i.e., as a codicil). And your executor would not have discretion to follow that letter's wishes unless all of the affected beneficiaries under your will consent to following the letter (or your heirs' consent under the laws of intestacy if you have no will).
Click to expand...



To be clear, testamentary formalities require:
  • the letter state it amends and supplements your will
  • you must sign it
  • your signature must be witnessed or acknowledged by you in front of two witnesses, who have been advised that they are signing a codicil or addendum to a will, who then sign as witnesses
Those are the minimum elements under the EPTL to make it a binding instrument, although there are more things to do if you want to do it right.
 
thisIslandEarth

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C3D said:
A trust doesn’t often work in NYS for this purpose (for handguns).

The reason is once you form and fund a trust (revocable or irrevocable), the guns are owned in the title of your name as trustee as fiduciary of the trust. So if you are John Smith, and you form a gun trust, the guns are owned by “John Smith as Trustee of the John Smith Irrevocable Trust of October 28, 2026”.

Section 7-1.18 of the Estate, Probate and Trust Law of New York requires assets that are capable of registration and belonging to a trust (where the trusts creator is also the trustee) to be registered and held in the name of the trust.

Most of the 48 handgun licensing authorities in NYS do not permit a license endorsement to be made in this fashion, as handgun licenses are issued to individuals and not to trusts under Article 400.00. Holding the gun on a license in your individual name while claiming a trust owns them would fail to comply 7-1.8 of the EPTL and cause the transfer of the handgun’s title to the trust to be invalidated.

An unfunded trust that you intend to receive ownership of the guns upon your death requires a testamentary instrument executed with proper formalities for that transfer to be effective, aka a will or codicil. So if you need to go down that route the trust is just extra headache on top of a will.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. Good stuff.
 
kgun12

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Oh, as far as his handguns were concerned, the same time we divided the guns we put his handguns that we chose on our permits as well as kept them on his. I’m not sure if it’s legal in New Yorkistan anymore, but back in 2013, it was easy, went to the courthouse with a dead certificate and turn in his permit.
 
C3D

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kgun12 said:
Oh, as far as his handguns were concerned, the same time we divided the guns we put his handguns that we chose on our permits as well as kept them on his. I’m not sure if it’s legal in New Yorkistan anymore, but back in 2013, it was easy, went to the courthouse with a dead certificate and turn in his permit.
Click to expand...


A good point here, in that despite all the estate formalities and requirements - if nobody objects/cares, you can be a lot more flexible.
 
P

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kgun12 said:
Oh, as far as his handguns were concerned, the same time we divided the guns we put his handguns that we chose on our permits as well as kept them on his. I’m not sure if it’s legal in New Yorkistan anymore, but back in 2013, it was easy, went to the courthouse with a dead certificate and turn in his permit.
Click to expand...
Yeah, you wouldn’t need an FFL if the gun is going to a qualified immediate family member.

In the OPs case they would have to be transferred by an FFL as brother and brother in law do not meet the legal definitions of immediate family member.
 
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