Does NY State Police body armor leave them vulnerable to AR-15 bullets

[Catskillkid]

Does NY State Police body armor leave them vulnerable to AR-15 bullets

I just love how the mainstream media reports on guns. Putting aside whether or not the body armor is adequate or not let's just examine these gems:

An Eyewitness News Investigation into body armor being used to protect New York State Police from high-powered rifles like the AR-15... (Since when is the AR-15 "high powered")?

In side-by-side tests, the State Police armor failed to stop AR-15 high-velocity bullets...(There's such a thing as an AR-15 bullet? They can't possibly mean the 5.56 NATO or the .223 Remington can they? But they're not particularly "high velocity" are they?).

 

[freddy]

Just say NO to steel plates.

 

[GOYABEAN]

ok if it doesn't blame not the so called AR15 magical bullets

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Soft body armor vs 5.56 = no bueno

Any tool with the Google machine can look up NIJ testing and see what body armor is rated for what

 

[Darth]

"The agency purchased Hardwire rifle plates out of Maryland even though a competitors armor made right here in New York appeared to hold up better against AR-15 bullets."

Holy crap, even when the crony capitalism is set up on a tee for this state to take advantage of they STILL miss!

OPEN FOR BUSINESS! xD

 

[Phazer]

Ummm...most daily-wear police armor is to stop the kinds of attacks that they are most likely to encounter such as pistols and knives while allowing them maximum possible comfort and mobility. There is NFW that patrol officers are going to walk around with plate armor.

Oh...media....most "hunting rifles" are way more powerful than AR-15 rounds. Just sayin'.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Here is the irony.

The left and the media hate the cops. They do not care for their safety and well being.

Fuck them.

They are just striring yet again.

 

[freddy]

Ummm...most daily-wear police armor is to stop the kinds of attacks that they are most likely to encounter such as pistols and knives while allowing them maximum possible comfort and mobility. There is NFW that patrol officers are going to walk around with plate armor.

Oh...media....most "hunting rifles" are way more powerful than AR-15 rounds. Just sayin'.

Not so sure about that. I have seen it in NYS. Regular single officer traffic stops.

Plate Carriers for Patrol

As far as knives I believe most soft armor does little to stop them. It requires specific, extra cost, armor with knife resistant properties. Not sure if that is common for patrol though. @Airborneguy could you answer this?

 

[dsdmmat]

The Next Eyewitness News Investigation headline is going to read
"Body armor because, nothing says I am part of your community like 65 pounds of Kevlar and Steel. How can the police fit in?"

 

[freddy]

Soft body armor vs 5.56 = no bueno

Any tool with the Google machine can look up NIJ testing and see what body armor is rated for what

This is what the article states is current issue: Body Armor Plates | Hardwire LLC

 

[Bob]

You might see a vest outside the officer's uniform, but that doesn't mean they're wearing rifle plates.

I've seen a lot of agencies that have been switching to external carriers for their standard soft body armor. It's the same SBA panels that they were wearing underneath their uniform shirts, just placed in an external carrier. Many claim it's more comfortable. It also gets a lot of the gear off the belt and helps mitigate lower-back problems.

The NYSP contract being discussed in the article is for essentially rifle plates and carriers. This is in addition to, not in place of, their soft body armor. These are not worn for routine patrol duties, but rather donned for high-risk incidents. The plates that they went with are a high-density polyethylene plate (yeah, plastic) that does not stop 223/5.56 rounds on its own, but is effective when combined with soft body armor.

I think this is a stupid move. There is an (incorrect) assumption that every time someone takes a patrol unit, they're in uniform with SBA. This isn't always the case, particularly with call-ins. Or what happens when an investigator who doesn't normally wear SBA needs a vest and grabs one from the trunk of a marked unit on scene?

 

[freddy]

You might see a vest outside the officer's uniform, but that doesn't mean they're wearing rifle plates.

I've seen a lot of agencies that have been switching to external carriers for their standard soft body armor. It's the same SBA panels that they were wearing underneath their uniform shirts, just placed in an external carrier. Many claim it's more comfortable. It also gets a lot of the gear off the belt and helps mitigate lower-back problems.

The NYSP contract being discussed in the article is for essentially rifle plates and carriers. This is in addition to, not in place of, their soft body armor. These are not worn for routine patrol duties, but rather donned for high-risk incidents. The plates that they went with are a high-density polyethylene plate (yeah, plastic) that does not stop 223/5.56 rounds on its own, but is effective when combined with soft body armor.

I think this is a stupid move. There is an (incorrect) assumption that every time someone takes a patrol unit, they're in uniform with SBA. This isn't always the case, particularly with call-ins. Or what happens when an investigator who doesn't normally wear SBA needs a vest and grabs one from the trunk of a marked unit on scene?

Thank you Bob. I stand corrected.

 

[Podmonkey]

Here is the irony.

The left and the media hate the cops. They do not care for their safety and well being.

Fuck them.

They are just striring yet again.

They support only what is convenient to their narrative at the time. And will drop it as soon as it isn't.
The left are devoid of any admirable traits, they are the epitome of the despicable.

 

[@thewheels]

If the media ever realizes that there's such a thing as an AR10 their heads will explode.

 

[freddy]

You might see a vest outside the officer's uniform, but that doesn't mean they're wearing rifle plates.

I've seen a lot of agencies that have been switching to external carriers for their standard soft body armor. It's the same SBA panels that they were wearing underneath their uniform shirts, just placed in an external carrier. Many claim it's more comfortable. It also gets a lot of the gear off the belt and helps mitigate lower-back problems.

The NYSP contract being discussed in the article is for essentially rifle plates and carriers. This is in addition to, not in place of, their soft body armor. These are not worn for routine patrol duties, but rather donned for high-risk incidents. The plates that they went with are a high-density polyethylene plate (yeah, plastic) that does not stop 223/5.56 rounds on its own, but is effective when combined with soft body armor.

I think this is a stupid move. There is an (incorrect) assumption that every time someone takes a patrol unit, they're in uniform with SBA. This isn't always the case, particularly with call-ins. Or what happens when an investigator who doesn't normally wear SBA needs a vest and grabs one from the trunk of a marked unit on scene?

My understanding is the poly plates have an allowable 150 F max temp before degradation can occur. If so, how do they keep these plates in the hot car trunk without issue?

 

[dsdmmat]

Body Armor is always going to be a trade off between protection and ability to perform the mission. The thinner your body armor the more blunt force trauma your body will receive there is no way around that.

Even if we put all police officer in body armor that will stop a 308 Winchester. If they are going to be hit with a 308 that is 2400 foot pounds of energy and some of that energy will be absorbed by the body potentially rupturing internal organs and internal bleeding. While those injuries are preferable to having a 308 bullet go through your body they are none the less life threatening.

So the question is do we want all of our LEOs dressing like I do when deployed or do we want them to be able to interact with the public? I do not think our LEOs want to try to perform their daily duties with the Individual Body Armor (IBA) I have to wear in Afghanistan. They would not be able to do everything they are required to do on a daily basis. There will also be more work related back compression and knee injuries from the daily wear of that type of Armor.

I do believe they want protection from the everyday threat with the option to go into their trunk and kit up when required. So soft body armor for a daily duty with an IBA style vest in the trunk is probably the best compromise for performance and safety they can get.

What is really shameful; the fact our world is in such disrepair that these discussions are necessary.

 

[freddy]

Body Armor is always going to be a trade off between protection and ability to perform the mission. The thinner your body armor the more blunt force trauma your body will receive there is no way around that.

Even if we put all police officer in body armor that will stop a 308 Winchester. If they are going to be hit with a 308 that is 2400 foot pounds of energy and some of that energy will be absorbed by the body potentially rupturing internal organs and internal bleeding. While those injuries are preferable to having a 308 bullet go through your body they are none the less life threatening.

So the question is do we want all of our LEOs dressing like I do when deployed or do we want them to be able to interact with the public? I do not think our LEOs want to try to perform their daily duties with the Individual Body Armor (IBA) I have to wear in Afghanistan. They would not be able to do everything they are required to do on a daily basis. There will also be more work related back compression and knee injuries from the daily wear of that type of Armor.

I do believe they want protection from the everyday threat with the option to go into their trunk and kit up when required. So soft body armor for a daily duty with an IBA style vest in the trunk is probably the best compromise for performance and safety they can get.

What is really shameful; the fact our world is in such disrepair that these discussions are necessary.

100%

 

[Bob]

My understanding is the poly plates have an allowable 150 F max temp before degradation can occur. If so, how do they keep these plates in the hot car trunk without issue?

I don't know anything about these new plates beyond the 30 seconds of internet research I did and what's in the article. It's very clear to me, however, that they are generally inferior to steel or ceramic plates and a waste of taxpayer dollars.

 

[Phazer]

If the media ever realizes that there's such a thing as an AR10 their heads will explode.

Pffftt! AR-10 is less powerful than the AR-15. Otherwise it'd be called the "AR-20."

You gun people just can't do math. 15 is higher than 10. So the AR-15 must be more powerful than the AR-10.

 

[@thewheels]

Pffftt! AR-10 is less powerful than the AR-15. Otherwise it'd be called the "AR-20."

You gun people just can't do math. 15 is higher than 10. So the AR-15 must be more powerful than the AR-10.

Ahhh...I see

So a 28 gauge shotgun is way more powerful than a 10 gauge. Makes sense.
I bet a 28 gauge would shoot down the sun. Or at least a 747.

 

[Airborneguy]

@freddy some levels of soft armor are “knife resistant” but that’s the best case scenario.

My department outfitted us all with new vests over the last 4 years that cover much more of our midsection and sides, and include a trauma plate that is supposed to stop up to 7.62x39. I’d really hate to absorb an AK round to the sternum, but as @dsdmmat said, it’s better than one passing through my sternum.

 

[Phazer]

@freddy some levels of soft armor are “knife resistant” but that’s the best case scenario.

Many of the high-tensile fibers used in soft armor will afford a degree of slash-resistance against knives. Direct point-on stabbing is much more difficult to deal with.

 

[Truebeliever]

Just say NO to steel plates.

That’s the issue. Most police departments said no to steel plates for many reasons. A steel plate vest maker who lost the contract is behind this story.

 

[Uzi]

Two ar 500 level 3 curved and spalled protective coatings only weigh about 20lbs. Those are rated up for some .308's. It should NOT hinder your performance much in a shootout situation, especially when the adrenaline is pumping. The dudes in the marines here are carrying around WAY more weight than just that of a carrier and they go through hell and back and they do just fine. It's like a backpack with a medium weight load, because it is evenly distributed and it's not that bad once it's on. Like already stated, the police are not wearing them all day anyways. They shouldn't be constricting much to movement, and if you're in an active shootout, odds are you're probably behind some type of cover I'd imagine if you had the time to pull out your vest from the trunk, put it on and to get a site on target or even engage from a distance. What they should do which they likely won't judging by the training so many officers don't brush up on from what I've been told, is run a course with the plates on so they're all familiar and know what to expect. Pretty simple really. Can they handle the additional weight? Other than that, other divisions will be approaching the threat if necessary with better protection for their team anyway depending on the situation of course and the time it takes. They're not talking about S.W.A.T officers here... I don't foresee any real additional issues because it's still an upgrade for the patrol cops.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

. The dudes in the marines here are carrying around WAY more weight than just that of a carrier and they go through hell and back and they do just fine.

Not really fair to compare 18-30 something marine to 25-60 something overweight cops. (Not all are out of shape but many are)

 

[freddy]

I think the only two advantages of steel plates are low cost and they are nearly indestructable to abuse and heat. Everything else favors either polyethylene or ceramic, or a hybrid of the two. The significantly lower weight of poly or ceramic is worth it in my opinion. Also, steel plates can cause injury from lead splatter.

 

[Uzi]

Not really fair to compare 18-30 something marine to 25-60 something overweight cops. (Not all are out of shape but many are)

Hmm? I don't think I was really comparing anyone though. I was just stating that if all they wanted was that level 3 protection that's not likely to fail to 5.56 or 7.62x39 rounds, 20 extra lbs of steel plates is not a huge feat for the shorter duration.

 

[Phauxtoe]

Pistol armor never works well against rifles!

 

[1911guy]

Ahhh...I see

So a 28 gauge shotgun is way more powerful than a 10 gauge. Makes sense.
I bet a 28 gauge would shoot down the sun. Or at least a 747.

Not likely. 747 is bigger than 28.

 

[Acer-m14]

The plates that they went with are a high-density polyethylene plate (yeah, plastic) that does not stop 223/5.56 rounds on its own, but is effective when combined with soft body armor.

will that set up hold up to a 223 bolt long barrel gun screaming at 3200 fps or more ? .. speed kills ..
I just got some 270 speer 100gr HP's from the load data these things will fly .. 3400 fps .. now if they were in FMJ ?? .. this load of 270's is going to look like a 30-06 case with a 223 in it LOL . damn there small ..