Myth or Fact .. Bronze cleaning brushes destroys your barrel ?
- Thread starter Acer-m14
- Start date
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
I watched that vid just last night. I've always used a brass brush with a patch at the end with some ballistol and never had an issue. I still don't get how someone can believe the brush will damage a barrel and not a copper jacketed bullet being swaged through it at mach 3.
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
brass brush on the drill in the chamber on my 223 savage bolt gun fixed the shooting steel case ammo so it don't get stuck and need a hammer
to get the bolt back .. it eats steel cases now lol ..
to get the bolt back .. it eats steel cases now lol ..
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
i liked the first part of the bore scope at the chamber area .. crack and shits ,.. looks the same as a drum brake on a semi truck ..
heat cracks .. normal ..
heat cracks .. normal ..
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
That guy has an interesting take on what actually causes a barrel to be shot out. He says that he's seen barrels with the first 5 inches of barrel (chamber end) missing it's rifling still shoot sub moa. I've thought about scenarios like that and why bullet jump would make any difference. I know the pressures are different when jumping or already being close to the grooves. But why would it effect the accuracy? To me I always thought that once it engages the rifling (and if there is enough of it to stabilize the bullet) the bullet would still fly straight. Maybe @meketrefe could shed more light on that.
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technicalgadget
.223 Rem
Can’t help but think that for some people, running a brass brush that has a slight amount of wear might expose the twisted steel galvanized shaft of the brush and that might be making contact with the barrel lands and scratching it. Brass brushes wear away and get eaten especially if your using an ammonia based cleaner.
Also, some folks might automatically assume the brush they are using is brass when it could be made from stainless steel which will definitely scratch a barrel.
The only other way in my mind is to chuck it and spin it with a drill to cause it to smoke and heat up and distort the original temper of the steel.
Physically, it’s just near impossible for brass to scratch steel or chromium due to differences in density.
Also, some folks might automatically assume the brush they are using is brass when it could be made from stainless steel which will definitely scratch a barrel.
The only other way in my mind is to chuck it and spin it with a drill to cause it to smoke and heat up and distort the original temper of the steel.
Physically, it’s just near impossible for brass to scratch steel or chromium due to differences in density.
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
what is the make up of a cleaning brush .. bronze / brass .. the metal that hold it all in one piece .. basic steel ..
bet not harder then the barrel it self ..
bet not harder then the barrel it self ..
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
I was thinking that myself. I think even most stainless steel brushes that would be used to clean a barrel couldn't scratch it. I'm trying to imagine a quality hardened russian ak barrel being scratched by a frilly stainless brush. Then I think of how 000 steel wool can't even remove bluing off of a gun. As far as the heat goes for tempering... automatic fire. I don't believe it's changing the temper of the steel unless you're doing those crazy torture tests that leave the barrel red hot and drooping. Can you generate that much heat with a brush? I don't know.
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
Black Powder and Pyrodex fucks up more barrels then a bronze brush .. LOL 
need any 12ga BP shells i can make them ..
need any 12ga BP shells i can make them
..
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Hi. There are many factors but the two most important ones are many times recognized as:
A) Consistent starting pressure.
B) Concentricity that is also related to carefully produced quality loads.
Starting pressure is influenced by consistent ignition with good primers, consistent charges, consitent necks and neck tension.
The starting pressure happens in the intial stage from ignition accelerating until the pressure jumps the first peak when the bullet starts moving and the projectile starts resisting. At this point the pressure is also increased by the igniting column of gasses from behind and the bullet being forced in the bore and rifling. Then we have other pressure statages as part of internal ballistics. A crimp can also be a trick one might use to consolidate that starting pressure regarless if one has a cannelure or not. One needs to always be careful with this and what type of crimp with a collet being the safest method in the absence of a cannelure.
B) Concentricity starts with rounds being as consistent and concentric as we can. Then that is where the jump is most critical and depending
what tolerances between the actual bore and bullet and the legth of the neck (less or more support) that becomes more or less critical.
In fact a smooth bore with a small section of rifling at the end can be extremely accurate (a jump almost the entire length of the barrel) that is something becoming more common in some air guns to help increase speed. The key thing is is that the projectile is already slightly swagged as it is force into the cone before the bore so there is no way a bullet can have much of a concentricity issue. also projectiles are pretty squared (shorter) so the final rifled section is more than enough to put a spin and help stabilize the bullet. Pistols don't use much rifling neither, they can't since they are short.
So again it depends on many factors. one can have a huge jump and have no effect or have a huge effect with small variations of a jump and with bullets that might be more sensitive to that like specialty long range bullets wiht a tanget (straight) o-give.
I hope this helps.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I think a bronze brush will ruin a prefectly good lead barrel!!!
youtubers come up with the most ridicolous shit. ...maybe this video is good entertainment for the loons.
I am going to cast some grisco bullets and put them in the freezer. They are so gentle with my lead barrel !!
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
lead barrel type .. wheel weights or pure lead .. lol
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
and to compensate we use eco friendly negative rifling !!!
Again, Grisco bullets are the best for your lead barrel.
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
i only use Crisco on my BP pistol for that chain fire that may happen lol
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
whoop read that wrong .. still funny lol
spat
.950 JDJ
Probably more about the consistency of the wear than it's mere existence.
If it's more worn on one side for instance that could introduce some variability. If the wear is even all the way around it might still shoot OK.
Just a theory, I don't know any of that for sure.
RedBreast21
6.5 Creedmoor
Someone must be selling a new product. lol Mohs hardness scale has steel at 4-4.5 and brass at 3 and so is.......wait for it..........wait..........copper. So,.....that's that. lol
spat
.950 JDJ
Bullets - Product Family - Banded Solids - Barnes Bullets
www.barnesbullets.com
Wow, they sell them commercially with diameters up to .618.
If your hunting something that a solid brass .50BMG round isn't enough for, I want to see some video....
repete
.338 Win Mag
I dunno, after all I heard that lead bullets wear out a barrel faster then FMJ. I just turned and walked away.
Few decades ago there was some talk about not using bronze brushes. I don't think many people still hold that view. I never could get a barrel really clean without bronze brush. I change bronze brushes after about 10 cleanings, they tend to compress. Some recommend using a new brush for every cleaning, but I am too cheap for that.
The United States Military prides itself on marksmanship and accurate Rifles. They have been using Bronze/Copper Brushes for over a century with no signs of changing. Seems to me that Cleaning Kits from Germany, Switzerland, or damn near anywhere else in the World are the same....they can't all be wrong.
Think about this: When you use copper dissolving cleaner with a Copper (copper alloy) what do you think happens to that Brush?
Again, any jackass can make a video and post himself on screwtube passing their own opinions as professional advise.
Think about this: When you use copper dissolving cleaner with a Copper (copper alloy) what do you think happens to that Brush?
Again, any jackass can make a video and post himself on screwtube passing their own opinions as professional advise.
spat
.950 JDJ
Even professional just means you get paid. It doesn't mean you know what you're doing.
I've seen plenty of total hack jobs committed by "professionals" in my life (and maybe temporarily participated in a few).
The ones I have participated in though, were never passed off as anything other than the complete hack that they were.
FRANKIE
.308 Win
Although the topic is a good conversation piece,
Practically speaking, I think the buck stops there.
This thinking kinda gives me a complex in the sense of wondering what the metallic composition was of every brush I ever used. Unless a “cold hammer forged” or tungsten cleaning brush” got mixed in the bunch,
I Wouldn’t really be concerned. God knows what kind of cleaning methods were used on some of the most prized guns folks own that are two-three times older than we are. In my my experience, a lot of those old rifle barrels reserve some of the best bragging rights.
If I had a barrel that was damaged by (sensibly cleaning) with most “run of the mill” cleaning brushes out there,
I would just get a better quality barrel.
Practically speaking, I think the buck stops there.
This thinking kinda gives me a complex in the sense of wondering what the metallic composition was of every brush I ever used. Unless a “cold hammer forged” or tungsten cleaning brush” got mixed in the bunch,
I Wouldn’t really be concerned. God knows what kind of cleaning methods were used on some of the most prized guns folks own that are two-three times older than we are. In my my experience, a lot of those old rifle barrels reserve some of the best bragging rights.
If I had a barrel that was damaged by (sensibly cleaning) with most “run of the mill” cleaning brushes out there,
I would just get a better quality barrel.