Ukraine - Russia Conflict (Original Title: Things are heating up in the Donbass)

[spat]

What?

I don't see how you guys can possibly fail to see the parallels between Putin's invasion of Ukraine and Saddam's invasion of Kuwait.

They are both among the few modern examples of a regional power attempting to annex a soverign neighbor through naked aggression.

 

[Deplorable Me]

Some are saying this is not current, still funny as shit. Gotta know when to toss them and when not to toss them....

Hopefully no bourbon was wasted in the filming of that propaganda clip.

 

[SonOfSun]

Using nukes any larger than tactical is suicide.

Putin isn’t going to commit suicide over some tanks. Strategic nukes are limited to being a response to existential threats only. Unless Putin thinks we're about to topple the Russian government he's not going to use them.

Worse case he uses some tactical nukes inside of Ukraine. If he sends anything larger then his country will cease to exist. There will be more living Russians in the US than there will be in whatever's left of Russia.

 

[Blimey]

Ukraine says its pilots are in Poland picking up donated MiG-29 fighter jets. Poland isn't commenting.

Ukraine says its pilots are in Poland picking up donated MiG-29 fighter jets. Poland isn't commenting.

www.yahoo.com

That's clever. We won't send our planes into the conflict and get in a war with russia...so we'll just give them to ukraine.

Anyway, Kyivpost is obviously a biased source, but:

Ukraine’s Depleted Airforce to Receive 70 Additional Fighter Jets from East European Countries - Kyiv Post - Ukraine's Global Voice

Three NATO-member countries are providing the Ukrainian Airforce with more than 70 planes to defend the skies and… - Mar. 01, 2022. By Kyiv Post

www.kyivpost.com

The Defense Ministry said the aircraft will be based on Polish airfields, “from which Ukrainian pilots will perform combat missions.”

That's massively noteworthy if true. Combat missions from poland.

kyivpost twitter says EU Parliament today is having a vote to start the ukraine-into-EU process, though typically this is a multi-year process.

 

[holdover]

You're getting bogged down in the details.

The things that wars change don't generally matter in the long run.

There are some exceptions of course, but some borders shuffling around and a few million dead don't really change the nature of the world.

How has the middle east changed ? Still the same oil laden sandbox with the same tribal conflicts it always had.

Even the world wars didn't change Europe in the long run. Less than a century later and we're starting to look like business as usual again.

Im not the one missing the big picture, , How has the mid east changed? really? In many ways, One is that Iraq was a bastion against Iran . It kept the mid east in balence . Now they are cooperating with each other since the shia run Iraq. the threats to Israel were removed one by one ,
Iraq had a massive army and was outwardly hostile to Israel, they even built the largest artillery in the world to bombard them. Syria was weakened because Iraq fell. Egypt Tunisia , and Libya fell to the CIA backed Arab spring overthrows, eliminating threats to Isreal.

Afghanistan suffered a 20 year war with the US, We had a 20 year jihad in the Mideast when before you could go there on vacation . the US is now hated throughout the world because of the wars we fought. Nothing changed? How about US credibility?

 

[Blimey]

Ballsy fuckers right here.

 

[holdover]

Of course they have a choice not to launch nukes. Ukraine is not their territory. The rational move is to withdraw back behind their territory and adopt the same stance the globe has had since the 50's, which is if you don't invade my territory I won't nuke you.

If Russia invades poland, for example, should nato respond or not respond because it is now a war with russia?

If you destroy the Russian military in Ukraine like you proposed, whats to stop you from going to Moscow? wheat?

 

[GOPerfect]

I don't see how you guys can possibly fail to see the parallels between Putin's invasion of Ukraine and Saddam's invasion of Kuwait.

They are both among the few modern examples of a regional power attempting to annex a soverign neighbor through naked aggression.

There are a few parts that are similar, but not many. Maybe I just do not remember my history or what I lived through and experienced.

Maybe my mental issues have caused me to get everything from my 20's distorted.

 

[spat]

Im not the one missing the big picture, , How has the mid east changed? really? In many ways, One is that Iraq was a bastion against Iran . It kept the mid east in balence . Now they are cooperating with each other since the shia run Iraq. the threats to Israel were removed one by one ,
Iraq had a massive army and was outwardly hostile to Israel, they even built the largest artillery in the world to bombard them. Syria was weakened because Iraq fell. Egypt Tunisia , and Libya fell to the CIA backed Arab spring overthrows, eliminating threats to Isreal.

Afghanistan suffered a 20 year war with the US, We had a 20 year jihad in the Mideast when before you could go there on vacation . the US is now hated throughout the world because of the wars we fought. Nothing changed? How about US credibility?

Minor details.

The mideast is still the mideast. It's essential nature is unchanged.

Meet the new boss same as the old boss.

 

[Blimey]

If you destroy the Russian military in Ukraine like you proposed, whats to stop you from going to Moscow? wheat?

Desire. The same reason we do not invade Russia today. We obviously could, but do not want to. We make it clear we are not going past the ukraine border and ensure any pilot within 50 miles of it knows damn sure where it is. You don't touch any russian soil.

I'm not sayin putin will not launch nukes because he gets cold fries from mcdonalds. Maybe he's gone crazy, but from a purely logical, rational perspective it makes absolutely zero sense for russia to use nukes even in response to a massive air campaign from nato over ukraine.

 

[holdover]

Using nukes any larger than tactical is suicide.

Putin isn’t going to commit suicide over some tanks. Strategic nukes are limited to being a response to existential threats only. Unless Putin thinks we're about to topple the Russian government he's not going to use them.

Worse case he uses some tactical nukes inside of Ukraine. If he sends anything larger then his country will cease to exist. There will be more living Russians in the US than there will be in whatever's left of Russia.

Some tanks? dude its the Russian army! Your attacking the Russian army ! if you defeat it , you have given him no choice. theres nothing to stop the west from taking Russia . Yes hes going to use nukes because that has always been their doctrine.

 

[holdover]

Minor details.

The mideast is still the mideast. It's essential nature is unchanged.

Meet the new boss same as the old boss.

you miss a lot.

 

[spat]

If you destroy the Russian military in Ukraine like you proposed, whats to stop you from going to Moscow? wheat?

Retreat is what stops that.

Also, the fact that Russia hasn't committed anywhere near their entire armed forces to this little adventure.

They could be expected to pull back what's left of their forces in Ukraine and sit on their side of the border and lick their woulds.

Even Saddam was smart enough to attempt a retreat once the ass kicking started.

 

[holdover]

Desire. The same reason we do not invade Russia today. We obviously could, but do not want to. We make it clear we are not going past the ukraine border and ensure any pilot within 50 miles of it knows damn sure where it is. You don't touch any russian soil.

I'm not sayin putin will not launch nukes because he gets cold fries from mcdonalds. Maybe he's gone crazy, but from a purely logical, rational perspective it makes absolutely zero sense for russia to use nukes even in response to a massive air campaign from nato over ukraine.

Oh boy. promises from the west are like promises from a women . These no credibility there. You think they are going to bet that the west upholds its agreements after they broke every one ? If there is no place in this world for Russia they are taking everyone with them

 

[spat]

Some tanks? dude its the Russian army! Your attacking the Russian army ! if you defeat it , you have given him no choice. theres nothing to stop the west from taking Russia . Yes hes going to use nukes because that has always been their doctrine.

It's one small part of the Russian army.

Also, the only thing stopping us from occupying Moscow is the fact that we don't want to. That was true last year and it'll be true next year too.

A few hundred or even thousand tanks won't change that at all.

 

[GOPerfect]

Retreat is what stops that.

Also, the fact that Russia hasn't committed anywhere near their entire armed forces to this little adventure.

They could be expected to pull back what's left of their forces in Ukraine and sit on their side of the border and lick their woulds.

Even Saddam was smart enough to attempt a retreat once the ass kicking started.

But, the Russian army is not getting their asses kicked. Huge difference. We beat the Iraqi Army in a couple of days.

 

[holdover]

Retreat is what stops that.

Also, the fact that Russia hasn't committed anywhere near their entire armed forces to this little adventure.

They could be expected to pull back what's left of their forces in Ukraine and sit on their side of the border and lick their woulds.

Even Saddam was smart enough to attempt a retreat once the ass kicking started.

75% of thier ground forces are committed to border areas. You knock that out, what do they have?

 

[spat]

you miss a lot.

You can't see the forest for the trees.

 

[Blimey]

Oh boy. promises from the west are like promises from a women . These no credibility there. You think they are going to bet that the west upholds its agreements after they broke every one ? If there is no place in this world for Russia they are taking everyone with them

Russia will use nukes to defend its own territory. That has always been the understanding. And if its military in ukraine gets bitch slapped it will remain of the same understanding, and most likely not use them unless its territory is attacked.

 

[holdover]

But, the Russian army is not getting their asses kicked. Huge difference. We beat the Iraqi Army in a couple of days.

I think he was saying if NATO were to launch an air war.

 

[holdover]

You can't see the forest for the trees.

vicea versa

 

[Blimey]

75% of thier ground forces are committed to border areas. You knock that out, what do they have?

If they stay in Russia they don't get knocked out.

 

[GOPerfect]

You can't see the forest for the trees.

I thought the old saying was, "You can't see the forest through the trees"?

 

[holdover]

Russia will use nukes to defend its own territory. That has always been the understanding. And if its military in ukraine gets bitch slapped it will remain of the same understanding, and most likely not use them unless its territory is attacked.

right, but not if NATO launches a an air war. You just changed the whole game NATO has become a target now.

 

[GOPerfect]

I think he was saying if NATO were to launch an air war.

Ohhhhhhhh, gotcha.

Will not happen,.

 

[spat]

But, the Russian army is not getting their asses kicked. Huge difference. We beat the Iraqi Army in a couple of days.

We're not fighting the Russians at all.

This is at the stage where Saddam invaded Kuwait. Before we got involved at all. The Kuwaiti military wasn't even a minor annoyance to Saddam.

But, Putin isn't having as much success in Ukraine as Saddam had in Kuwait at this point.

 

[holdover]

If they stay in Russia they don't get knocked out.

On a promise. and the Russians will just buy that? no.

 

[Blimey]

right, but not if NATO launches a an air war. You just changed the whole game NATO has become a target now.

Possibly. If they did this and then russia starts shooting air bases in poland who knows what happens...

I'm seeing a massive hacking campaign against russia. I expect this will start hitting us back in coming days.

 

[Blimey]

On a promise. and the Russians will just buy that? no.

They don't need to. It's easy to see if your territory is being invaded or not.

 

[Defilade]

Close enough for the smell?

To this day, burnt meat makes me physically and mentally sick.

I can smell burnt meats from a mile away.

No getting that smell out of my nostrils

Oh no doubt about that. Liquidfied meat at times.