Ukraine - Russia Conflict (Original Title: Things are heating up in the Donbass)

[GOPerfect]

There is nuance in everything, but generally speaking if you are an unwanted invader trying to seize control of someone else's home/country then you deserve whatever response you get from them. If that's them leaving the invader's dead to become dog chow, so be it. If someone came to my home and tried to take it, there is nothing that I wouldn't consider doing to repel them. I have to ask, what wouldn't you do to protect your family?

I am not speaking of the carnage that I would portray upon those intent on hurting my family.

I only asked if your statement;

"No sympathy.

Simple solution, don't want to die? Don't invade other countries."

goes for the US Soldiers that died invading other nations?

 

[Acer-m14]

Before Invasion, Ukraine’s Lithium Wealth Was Drawing Global Attention (Published 2022)

Chinese and Australian investors had been lining up to explore for lithium, a metal that is critical to batteries and the world’s transition to clean energy.

www.nytimes.com

Natural Resources of Ukraine

ukrainetrek.com

 

[tirwin1]

U.S. has a long history of getting in bed with scum of the earth. This conflict is no different. The images of torture these assholes video taped will only strengthen Russia's resolve.

And the russians don't? Whether it is under the soviet union or under the putin regime the "scum of the earth" label is warranted.

 

[spat]

"No sympathy.

Simple solution, don't want to die? Don't invade other countries."

These are your words, correct. You appear to be okay with Soldiers being killed due to an invasion.

Okay in the Russia/Ukraine thing, but not okay for the US Soldiers?

Just trying to get things straight.

If that is your opinion, okay,.

If you're in a street fight with some guy, you'll kick him in the balls at the first opportunity, yes ?


It's like that.


The only difference between the good guy and the bad guy is *why* they're fighting.

You shouldn't expect anyone to conduct thenselves bu any rules in an actual fight.

 

[spat]

No. They agreed to hand over Bin Laden But thier laws required the proper evidence to do so.

If they had said "we have arrested him and are awaiting evidence form you for extradition proceedings" they would have been fine.

That is not what they did.

 

[spat]

Puppet anti-Russian state on historic Russian territory.

Putin has no right to govern people who do not want him. It doesn't matter how long they were governed by some other dude who sat in his chair.

Anyone helping him impose his will by force deserves everything they get.

And, yes, that would apply to US soldiers too. The last time that was relevant though would have been the civil war.

 

[spat]

Something to ponder....

This is something largely not being discussed...

Perhaps we're looking at this conflict the wrong way.

First, Keep in mind that the western media that we see is doing everything possible to show Ukraine in the best possible light and it runs the spectrum from propoganda to full out digitally manipulated lies and extreme exaggerations. So keep in mind the west is getting a very "selective" story on events and the course of the war.


Did you guys know Ukraines army was effectively bigger (armed soldiers and number of tanks) than European NATO (excluding the US). The Ukrainian army was arguably the strongest army in Europe and had recent widespread combat experience and it was given billions of dollars of aid consisting of top of the line western anti tank and anti air systems.

Russia is still slogging along making advances and degrading the Ukrainian capabilities.

Russia still has massive amounts of soldiers and armor not deployed. I think they still have like 1.5 million soldiers and a crap ton of tanks and armor.

I still think Russia did not send it's A team to the fight. I don't see or hear of widespread usage of airborne or spetsnaz troops. Those are well trained hardened troops that are not appearing to be used. To me it almost seems like Russia is using this conflict as an opportunity to harden and experience for their regular troops while holding back their better units. What if it's not a coincidence and it's by design to prepare their forces for war with NATO?

Knowing Russia is beating the largest army in Europe with their B team shouldn't be overlooked. Sure Russia has some overly reported blunders and losses but hey that's the cost of doing business to gain experience.

Just a thought

Talking about NATO in Europe and excluding the US is like talking about an invasion of NY and only talking about the National Guard.

NATO is the US, plus some cheerleaders.

In gulf war 1 the only military that was even capable of actually operating along side us was the brits. The rest were so ill prepared theg couldn't even integrate into a cohesive force with us. They would literally have been a hinderance to try. Think your 6yr old nephew "helping" you work on your car. If he tries to do more than hold a flashlight and hand you tools it's going to take twice as long.

 

[spat]

So, all of my fellow Veterans that did not make it home these past twenty+ years, you are okay with them being killed?

Great to know.

It's not an "ok with it" thing at all.

If you kick in someone's front door, you should expect to get shot in the face.

 

[spat]

I am not speaking of the carnage that I would portray upon those intent on hurting my family.

I only asked if your statement;

"No sympathy.

Simple solution, don't want to die? Don't invade other countries."

goes for the US Soldiers that died invading other nations?

If you were an Afghani, and half your family just got killed in a drone strike at your cousins wedding, how would you answer that question ?

 

[dsdmmat]

The way I see it is anyone who invaded another country doesn’t get a vote in how they react. Anyone who invades our country will certainly not be Geneva convention signers and will not adhere to the way the US conducts warfare. If we expect them to we are being naive.

when war comes to your homeland you do what you have to do to survive. I don’t expect our enemies who are not signatories to the Geneva convention to conduct themselves with honor when it comes to dealing with our Soldiers. I don’t like it but I have no expectations they will.

 

[Mosinitis]

And the russians don't? Whether it is under the soviet union or under the putin regime the "scum of the earth" label is warranted.

Only if you are indoctrinated moron who equates Socialist and Communists to Nazis, dismissing conclusions of Nuremberg trial.

 

[prambo]

Springtime for GloboCap

"Or … wait. Sorry, I got all confused again. These are the good Nazis … the GloboCap Nazis! The actual Nazis, not the fictional Nazis. Or … wait, no … never mind. I mean, it’s not like it really matters anyway, right? The point is, it’s Spring, and the goat-footed balloon-Man whistles … no, strike the balloon-Man. This is not the time for balloon-Man references. It’s New Normal Spring! The birds are buzzing! The bees are chirping! The ICBMs are tumescent with rocket fuel and throbbing in their silos! The New Normal masses are out prancing around with their “vaccination passports” and medical-looking masks, in their official neo-Nazi Azov hoodies, waving their Ukrainian flags, and otherwise desperately trying to pretend that they haven’t just been colossally mindfucked by GloboCap for the last two years!"

 

[holdover]

You mean like public videos of him claiming his organization did it at his command? Get real they had no intention of handing him over.

He actually came out and said he didn't do it before he admitted to doing it .

.3 things, One the public videos didnt come out until way past the invasion.2. the videos were found to be faked by Swedish intelligence.

Other than the fake video there is no evidence tying Bin laden to the attack on 911. Before you go on some rant , You shoud read up on it .

Your country lied to you to justify a war in the mid east.

Then they could not locate Bin Laden when a CNN crew found him in a Hospital in Dubi. Not only that He somehow evaded capture or death for 14 years. A record which will never be broken. in the first months of the war He evaded the CIA , the green berets, the Navy seals,Mi6, the Mossad, 24 hour a day satellite surveillance, spys , and a bounty of over 1 million dollars . You may not be aware, but these guys are fucking good , They can do things you wouldnt think possible like march 65 + miles in a night , shoot past 1200 yards , freeze for days. He was also a media whore, He was on TV more than wolf blitzer, He was constantly making announcements and videos from before the war up until December , when they had him pinned down in Tora Bora . and that was the last we heard of him , 14 years later we supposedly launched a raid into Pakistan to get him where No photos of the body were taken and his body for some unknown reason was dumped into the ocean . If you belive this, I have a bridge to sell you. perhaps you would like to post the evidence the FBI has that he was involved?

Further more , the there were no WMD's in Iraq, and Saddam Huessin never supported islamic terrorists. He himself was secularist that held the country of two opposing religions together.

Im telling you right, do some research on it. The government is lying to us , just like they are doing now in Ukraine.

If think you Im crazy, just say I think your crazy, I dont want to derail the thread into a debate about osama bin laden.

 

[tirwin1]

Only if you are indoctrinated moron who equates Socialist and Communists to Nazis, dismissing conclusions of Nuremberg trial.

Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.

That's just to start. "Indoctrinated moron" - talk about projection.

 

[holdover]

Springtime for GloboCap

"Or … wait. Sorry, I got all confused again. These are the good Nazis … the GloboCap Nazis! The actual Nazis, not the fictional Nazis. Or … wait, no … never mind. I mean, it’s not like it really matters anyway, right? The point is, it’s Spring, and the goat-footed balloon-Man whistles … no, strike the balloon-Man. This is not the time for balloon-Man references. It’s New Normal Spring! The birds are buzzing! The bees are chirping! The ICBMs are tumescent with rocket fuel and throbbing in their silos! The New Normal masses are out prancing around with their “vaccination passports” and medical-looking masks, in their official neo-Nazi Azov hoodies, waving their Ukrainian flags, and otherwise desperately trying to pretend that they haven’t just been colossally mindfucked by GloboCap for the last two years!"

Bravo Sir!

 

[holdover]

If they had said "we have arrested him and are awaiting evidence form you for extradition proceedings" they would have been fine.

That is not what they did.

How can they arrest him without evidence? Why didn't the US just turn over evidence if they had it instead of conducting a 20 year war?

I mean for Christs sake they had the puzzle solved when they announced Bin Laden did it before the second tower even fell.

 

[Defilade]

 

[Defilade]

President of Ukraine!

 

[Mosinitis]

Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.

That's just to start. "Indoctrinated moron" - talk about projection.

USSR was the last country to sign non-aggression pact with Germany, all other European powers already made the same pact with Nazi Germany and refused Soviet offer to form anti-Nazi coalition. They also refused Soviet offer to defend Czechoslovakia and handed it over to Hitler. American and European bankers, industrialists and British Royal family supported Hitler's rise to power. Many of them supported and praised Hitler right up to start of WWII. Standard oil managed to bypass sanctions and still ship oil to Nazi Germany after the start of WWII.
No wonder U.S. government and the media takes the same approach in Ukraine. Always dirty.

 

[Defilade]

 

[GOPerfect]

If you're in a street fight with some guy, you'll kick him in the balls at the first opportunity, yes ?


It's like that.


The only difference between the good guy and the bad guy is *why* they're fighting.

You shouldn't expect anyone to conduct thenselves bu any rules in an actual fight.

I was not speaking about a street fight.

A comment was made and I am questioning the meaning of that comment.

Nothing more and nothing less.

 

[GOPerfect]

It's not an "ok with it" thing at all.

If you kick in someone's front door, you should expect to get shot in the face.

Not talking about my front door getting kicked in.

Talking and asking about one comment that was made here.

 

[GOPerfect]

If you were an Afghani, and half your family just got killed in a drone strike at your cousins wedding, how would you answer that question ?

Not Afghani, and not talking about a drone strile

 

[livingston]

 

[spat]

I was not speaking about a street fight.

A comment was made and I am questioning the meaning of that comment.

Nothing more and nothing less.

This is a street fight.

The combatants are nations.

Global geopolitics is a prison yard with no guards.

 

[spat]

Not Afghani, and not talking about a drone strile

If you were I suspect your answer would be quite a bit different.

But, lets say you were Ukranian and your wife and newborn daughter were killed in a Russia artillery strike against their maternity ward.

What would your answer be then ?

 

[spat]

How can they arrest him without evidence? Why didn't the US just turn over evidence if they had it instead of conducting a 20 year war?

I mean for Christs sake they had the puzzle solved when they announced Bin Laden did it before the second tower even fell.

I'm willing to bet the Taliban has done a lot worse than arrest someone with a lot less evidence.

The lack of evidence wasn't what was stopping them.

I strongly suspect we could have turned over videos of him giving the hijackers their briefing that morning and the Taliban would have just made sure the source of the video died horribly, along with his family.

 

[holdover]

Says you. where's the evidence 20 years later? A fake video? You presuppose this and that. The taliban honered a Pashtun law they lived by which was talked about in the book Lone survivor, where once someone is allowed to enter thier home ( country) they have a commitment to defend that person with thier lives . Osama Bin Laden was a hero to them for his fight against the soviets they arent going to just turn him over without evidence because George fucking Bush said so. They didnt hand over evidence for the world to see because they didnt have any evidence . period. You don't have any evidence the FBI doesn't have any evidence so stop making excuses.

 

[GOPerfect]

If you were I suspect your answer would be quite a bit different.

But, lets say you were Ukranian and your wife and newborn daughter were killed in a Russia artillery strike against their maternity ward.

What would your answer be then ?

This is not what I am questioning.

Did you read what I was responding to? And, did you read my question?

 

[GOPerfect]

This is a street fight.

The combatants are nations.

Global geopolitics is a prison yard with no guards.

Again, not what I was questioning.