My father, an old time fire chief used to say, “At a fire, you can have 101 things going wrong all at the same time. Put the fire out and 99 of them go away….. You are left with the injuries and damage to the structure before you put the fire out.”
Shooting at Uvalde Texas elementary school
- Thread starter Catskillkid
- Start date
99cummins
.308 Win
“As the first line goes so goes the fire.”
The first 5-10 minutes usually sets the tone for the entire incident.
99cummins
.308 Win
Like ok... Pics tell a thousand words worth!
So once there were no more kids coming out that window, WHY THE FUCK DIDN'T THE OFFICERS THERE ENTER THROUGH THE WINDOW AND ENGAGE THE PERPETRATOR?
Is this real? Or a fucking joke!?
Nope! Columbine, we learned you don't wait and kill the fuckers. What did we do here?????????? Same as Columbine.
We have learned nothing or I should say failed to execute the plan created from failings of Columbine.
Or worse, those kids were sacrifice on purpose to push an agenda.,
I STILL WANT TO KNOW WHO THOSE MARSHALLS WERE. FED OR LOCAL.
Well, if we DON'T learn from history... Some guy said a long time ago, that we are then DOOMED to repeat it!
As displayed here!
Again... I can't but help believe how many kids might have survived had the response been immediate and conclusive, with medical triage and provision provided right then and there!
As displayed here!
Again... I can't but help believe how many kids might have survived had the response been immediate and conclusive, with medical triage and provision provided right then and there!
Vapor
.308 Win
I understand. I made a choice long ago to never have sex with a woman if she would abort my child. I've always had that conversation with dating. It's a deal breaker right away. I've cut a few loose who were pretty into me for that.
This fucking asshole can cram that shit straight up his ass. Fuck him.
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
so if the school was on lockdown ..
then all the kids are locked in there classrooms ...
so even if the front door was wide open how did he get into a class room and lock the fucken door with the kids in there ?
or am i missing something ?
RedBreast21
6.5 Creedmoor
The more information that comes out the worse it looks for the PD response. Twelve minutes this asshole had to gain entry into the school and now it appears the asshole gained access through a door where an administrator had come out to see where the shooter was and then they left open upon their retreat. With the PD finally in pursuit, he gains access to the building and to two adjoining classrooms.
So this asshole kills kids inside these two classrooms, is now contained and no danger to others in the building while the school evacuated. But the PD didn't gain entry to the class room and this alone likely results in the deaths of those that bled out.
I saw a pic of the local PD appearing to be all high speed low drag like most tactical teams but apparently it was all looks. I read some of the PD doctrine for these situations and it's well written and very clear as to what the PD's response and priorities are to be. Massive fail so far.
These situations for police tactical teams are tough and honestly it's unrealistic to expect great success with their use. They essentially require a pace and flow through a building that even tier one units would struggle with. Time isn't not on your side these situations, the mission is first aid critical as well; and frankly the level of commitment to danger of being shot would be an added stress factor disrupting tactical flow of police teams who have families at home that they just left. One thing is for sure, that classroom door would not stop a tier one unit and injuries to a team member are high when going in.
Not sure that the walls even offered any ballistic protection. But there clearly was a hesitation to commit and to save lives.
IMHO, officers on scene, in pairs, should have made immediately entry into the school. Whether the shooter made access or was still walking around the ground they should have been in the building.
Maybe some answers to schools not being easy targets for asshole like this guy is one of local armed personnel; strong security protocols and barriers. Security upgrades as well as armed assets made public but not identified. Armed assets can be working under other titles and remain essential anonymous to staff and students. An environment like that after a few years would remove schools as soft targets. Much like domestic air marshals do for planes. They may or may not be on the plane. That alone is a deterrent.
We all can agree that there has been a social shift in America that is a factor here and we need to correct that.
I have more questions than answers received now. All we can do is wait for the investigation to complete.
I don't want to blame LEO's.. that's low hanging fruit, but they need to be honest about their capabilities and level of commitment to these situations and stop playing SEAL team six commando's. This would push the focus on the individual who commit these crime and measures taken to deal with these social/mental deficient people who are cultivated by progressive ideology.
Just my two cents.....and frustrated rant. lol
So this asshole kills kids inside these two classrooms, is now contained and no danger to others in the building while the school evacuated. But the PD didn't gain entry to the class room and this alone likely results in the deaths of those that bled out.
I saw a pic of the local PD appearing to be all high speed low drag like most tactical teams but apparently it was all looks. I read some of the PD doctrine for these situations and it's well written and very clear as to what the PD's response and priorities are to be. Massive fail so far.
These situations for police tactical teams are tough and honestly it's unrealistic to expect great success with their use. They essentially require a pace and flow through a building that even tier one units would struggle with. Time isn't not on your side these situations, the mission is first aid critical as well; and frankly the level of commitment to danger of being shot would be an added stress factor disrupting tactical flow of police teams who have families at home that they just left. One thing is for sure, that classroom door would not stop a tier one unit and injuries to a team member are high when going in.
Not sure that the walls even offered any ballistic protection. But there clearly was a hesitation to commit and to save lives.
IMHO, officers on scene, in pairs, should have made immediately entry into the school. Whether the shooter made access or was still walking around the ground they should have been in the building.
Maybe some answers to schools not being easy targets for asshole like this guy is one of local armed personnel; strong security protocols and barriers. Security upgrades as well as armed assets made public but not identified. Armed assets can be working under other titles and remain essential anonymous to staff and students. An environment like that after a few years would remove schools as soft targets. Much like domestic air marshals do for planes. They may or may not be on the plane. That alone is a deterrent.
We all can agree that there has been a social shift in America that is a factor here and we need to correct that.
I have more questions than answers received now. All we can do is wait for the investigation to complete.
I don't want to blame LEO's.. that's low hanging fruit, but they need to be honest about their capabilities and level of commitment to these situations and stop playing SEAL team six commando's. This would push the focus on the individual who commit these crime and measures taken to deal with these social/mental deficient people who are cultivated by progressive ideology.
Just my two cents.....and frustrated rant. lol
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Phazer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
did you see the full interview i posted ? 30 min long .. 28 min mark epic ..
Phazer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Must have missed it. Sorry.
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
what about a having a undercover janitor with a tactical trash cart .. just roaming the halls ? our vets could do this ..
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
video there
Our June Supreme court rulling is Near?
So crazy so many mass shooting just before the rulling, BUT while in the kitchen, with the morning News (Propaganda show) on (waiting to hear the weather) I thought heard Rosanne Scotto say while discussing Gun Control that the new moron in charge of NYS allready has legislation prepaired for...
nygunforum.com
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Im not argueing with you, Im just trying to put things in perspective.
That_FNG
.308 Win
A Uvalde officer said 'there was almost a mutiny' outside of Texas elementary school as team debated ignoring order to not go in: report
"It felt cowardly to stand off and let this punk, this kid, this 18-year-old asshole just go in and do whatever he wanted to do." the officer said.
www.businessinsider.in
MothMan
.338 Win Mag
Spot on!! Sooooo many pundits. Here! There!! Everywhere!!
RedBreast21
6.5 Creedmoor
Oh now the blame game starts.
A Uvalde officer said 'there was almost a mutiny' outside of Texas elementary school as team debated ignoring order to not go in: report
"It felt cowardly to stand off and let this punk, this kid, this 18-year-old asshole just go in and do whatever he wanted to do." the officer said.
The PD gave an order based on what intel? Oh right, the team that followed the gunman into the school and put eyes on him. Then while the shooting is going on they decide to contact the chief to give a sitrep? What?
"....No plan" They rehearsed in the school at least once. They knew the layout and likely that of the rooms this asshole was in and currently shooting.
You only need two maybe three people to breach and clear. If the asshole decided to exit the building via a window then the perimeter team would engage him.
I find it hard that to believe that within seconds of a stand down order,, three pissed off officers couldn't form up and make entry.
Again, I don't want to put blame on the PD here although its clear they didn't follow or commit to their own well written procedures for this type of incident. Which BTW included solo engagement.
I'm sure none of them are sleeping well and they shouldn't.
I also read that officers tackled parents willingly to go in.
Ugh...
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Fuck you.A Uvalde officer said 'there was almost a mutiny' outside of Texas elementary school as team debated ignoring order to not go in: report
"It felt cowardly to stand off and let this punk, this kid, this 18-year-old asshole just go in and do whatever he wanted to do." the officer said.
That_FNG
.308 Win
Towards me? Or towards the police in this article?
BerettaGuy
.308 Win
We are a compliant tribe as shown with the Covid BS. There were people in Germany that resisted the protocol too, They were rounded up and shadowbanned..
A retired ATF agent said on CBS the weapon could kill 30 people in 30-40 seconds, then he went in to say the weapon is a .22 caliber which is shooting bullets so fast they can shoot through the front of the police vest, through the officer and out the back of his vest and into a wall. He went on to say there were many people bleeding out and if the police got in their quicker they could have stopped them from bleeding and save them.
I would really like to know why he was allowed to serve and retire with that level of bullshit in his head.
Mix a little truth with a whole bunch of BS and you are invited on all the weekend shows to tell the clueless the approved narrative.
I would really like to know why he was allowed to serve and retire with that level of bullshit in his head.
Mix a little truth with a whole bunch of BS and you are invited on all the weekend shows to tell the clueless the approved narrative.
BerettaGuy
.308 Win
Facing a guy with an AR-15 with your .40 cal Glock is not a good idea.
Wife's Text Jolted Off-Duty Border Patrol Agent Into Action to Save Dozens of Students During Shooting
"There’s an active shooter."ijr.com
Give me my shogun with 00-buck Magnums and it's game on.
Not you, we good. Reading that shit pisses me off.
"I knew it was wrong but I gassed the Jews anyway."
TEOTWAWKI inc.
.338 Win Mag
With or without having been on the scene at the time this unfolded, it is easy to need to blame someone. I am not blaming anyone other than the killer that started this, but I believe we need to understand the history of the person that did this so we can focus on the root cause, and we also need to learn from what went right AND wrong during the response.
Most people (not here) have latched on to the 'shooting' aspect, and are obviously not intelligent enough, or they have no desire to put in the effort to prevent these types of things in the first place. As such, they will continue to happen.
I guess we will have to work on the response.
Call comes in, and officers are dispatched. I can only imagine what was running through their minds, but they went.
Did any of the first group of officers into the building fire at the killer? I have seen numerous reports they were shot at and injured, but I don't recall seeing that they fired their weapons.
The second they realized this was for real, it should have become Seek and Destroy.
I would expect, and even accept collateral damage in an event like this. Their natural reaction should have been to eliminate the threat ASAP, and they should have relied on their training to minimize unnecessary casualties.
It's a miracle this didn't end far worse. The killer apparently had plenty of time, and luckily the shooting didn't conclude with him setting off some explosives. The primary objective should have been to hunt him down and kill him, and every responsible party that was not directly involved in that, should have been working in parallel to protect every other potential victim in the building.
The school districts, police departments, and every parent with a child in school need to sit down and all get on the same page about this.
I do not have military or LE training, so I could be missing a key component here, but you would have a hard time convincing me the best response is anything other than Seek and Destroy.
They should have ended the threat before anyone was worried about putting the police line tape up.
Most people (not here) have latched on to the 'shooting' aspect, and are obviously not intelligent enough, or they have no desire to put in the effort to prevent these types of things in the first place. As such, they will continue to happen.
I guess we will have to work on the response.
Call comes in, and officers are dispatched. I can only imagine what was running through their minds, but they went.
Did any of the first group of officers into the building fire at the killer? I have seen numerous reports they were shot at and injured, but I don't recall seeing that they fired their weapons.
The second they realized this was for real, it should have become Seek and Destroy.
I would expect, and even accept collateral damage in an event like this. Their natural reaction should have been to eliminate the threat ASAP, and they should have relied on their training to minimize unnecessary casualties.
It's a miracle this didn't end far worse. The killer apparently had plenty of time, and luckily the shooting didn't conclude with him setting off some explosives. The primary objective should have been to hunt him down and kill him, and every responsible party that was not directly involved in that, should have been working in parallel to protect every other potential victim in the building.
The school districts, police departments, and every parent with a child in school need to sit down and all get on the same page about this.
I do not have military or LE training, so I could be missing a key component here, but you would have a hard time convincing me the best response is anything other than Seek and Destroy.
They should have ended the threat before anyone was worried about putting the police line tape up.
That_FNG
.308 Win
AHh ok.
livingston
20×102mm Vulcan
Border Agents Stormed School and Killed Gunman After Local Police Told them to Wait
By Jim Hoft
Published May 27, 2022 at 7:38pm
New details emerged on the border agents who killed the mass murderer inside Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas.
Border Patrol agents arrived far earlier than previously reported. CPB BORTAC SWAT team was investigating stash houses on the border to the west of Uvalde and agents not in the SWAT team also rushed to the school, according to a report from Texas Monthly. They arrived at Robb Elementary School around 12:15 pm.
According to multiple reports, the agents did not coordinate with the Uvalde Police Department due to their poor response. They acted on their own initiative after local police told them to wait. Around 12:50 pm, they breached the door and engaged the Uvalde school shooter.
This is an outrageous new detail that has just been released tonight, 3 days after the shooting.
Border Agents Stormed School and Killed Gunman After Local Police Told them to Wait * The Gateway Pundit * by Jim Hᴏft
New details emerged on the border agents who killed the mass murderer inside Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas.
www.thegatewaypundit.com
livingston
20×102mm Vulcan
Federal agents entered Uvalde school to kill gunman despite local police initially asking them to wait
Two senior federal law enforcement officials said the federal agents decided after about 30 minutes not to wait any longer and entered the school to find gunman Salvador Ramos.
Feds entered school to kill gunman after local cops asked them to wait
Two senior federal law enforcement officials said the federal agents decided after about 30 minutes not to wait any longer and entered the school to find gunman Salvador Ramos.
www.nbcnews.com
BerettaGuy
.308 Win
The more things change, the more they stay the same.A Uvalde officer said 'there was almost a mutiny' outside of Texas elementary school as team debated ignoring order to not go in: report
"It felt cowardly to stand off and let this punk, this kid, this 18-year-old asshole just go in and do whatever he wanted to do." the officer said.
