Question For The More Tactical Among Us

kev74

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I saw this scanning the news this morning. It looks like the guy on the right has his finger on the trigger, ready to shoot ducks out of the air. The guy on the left is muzzling his hand. And they all look like they're trying to take cover behind windows without even trying to crouch down to take advantage of the bottom part of the wall.

As someone who is far on the "untactical" side of the curve. am I being overly critical, or is this a clown show that the Sheriff's Dept. was willing to release a pic of to highlight #diversity?

Please discuss! :cool:

screenshoteasy (7).png
 
Saltwater60

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If I’m taking a tactical stance standing in front of a window and super exposed isn’t a great place to be.
The guy entering the door should be ready not low and ready IMO.
The guy with the gun pointed in the air may make sense depending on what’s there, but he should be looking where his gun. There maybe another building there and he’s covering that.
The guy all the way to the left his paints are so large I don’t know how he’s walking honestly.
 
GOYABEAN

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Saltwater60 said:
If I’m taking a tactical stance standing in front of a window and super exposed isn’t a great place to be.
The guy entering the door should be ready not low and ready IMO.
The guy with the gun pointed in the air may make sense depending on what’s there, but he should be looking where his gun. There maybe another building there and he’s covering that.
The guy all the way to the left his paints are so large I don’t know how he’s walking honestly.
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Widows are racist :banghead:
 
spat

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kev74 said:
I saw this scanning the news this morning. It looks like the guy on the right has his finger on the trigger, ready to shoot ducks out of the air. The guy on the left is muzzling his hand. And they all look like they're trying to take cover behind windows without even trying to crouch down to take advantage of the bottom part of the wall.

As someone who is far on the "untactical" side of the curve. am I being overly critical, or is this a clown show that the Sheriff's Dept. was willing to release a pic of to highlight #diversity?

Please discuss! :cool:

View attachment 175304
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Lol @the windows.

They're glass, they're not even concealment.

Blue guns means they're training though. Maybe they're pretending it's not transparent.
 
spat

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dsdmmat said:
Yeah, I think they are practicing breaching with the only building they had available.

that is about all I am going to give them credit for.
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Notes say they're training for a school incident.

Wonder if that's the actual school they're practicing at (off hours).

If that's the case, then the glass fail stands LOL.
 
CNYJohn

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short moe haircut dude and the bald black dude should be looking thru glass with guns up blck dude left hallway, moecut dude looking right
dude entering doorway should be gun up
black chick pulling door open should be watching the left side of hallway
fat dude behind her should be gun up watching their 6



BGM......blue guns matter
 
SomeSoldier

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repete said:
We pretended a lot while I was in the army, it kinda works.
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GOPerfect said:
Lots of pretending, you gotta work with what is on hand. These glass windows, pretend they are solid blocks.
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100% agree, you have to work with what you have. I remember using tape on the ground to simulate walls.

My comment was more about how their stack is just ate up. This must be their first run through after the verbal explanation.
 
meketrefe

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Drinkthekoolaid said:
They should practice standing in hallways....


Sorry I know... These guys had nothing to do with uvalde or Broward. I'm still salty about it though.
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the hard question is why we have secured perimeters in courthouses and airports and not in schools?
when was the last time a lunatic or terrorist attacked the secure area of an airport or courthouse?
maybe lawyers and fellow travellers are more important than our own children?
or maybe someone does not care that they are unprotected so a lunatic cam come and do it again so they have more bait for their sensationalist media and radical political agendas.

Conservatives and pro gun groups are also guilty as they should have organized massive protests and complaints to make sure real security perimeters and measures are implemented. real ones not pretending ones.

where are those politicians?

it looks the like the truck drivers in Canada are the only ones of a few bunch who actually give a fuck and mean what they say.
 
RedBreast21

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There isn't a one size fits all tactical solution to situations involving school incidents. Slow methodical clearing of a structure offers the entry team the highest possible amount of safety but clearly puts innocents in danger. Dynamic entry requires more skill and practice but if a determined shooter is in the room, someone on the team is getting hit. Ballistic shields can play a safety role in this. Law enforcement officers are bound by ROE, that's rules of engagement, where as the shooter is free to engage by any means they see fit. When I have been involved in discussions of a tactical nature I always bring up the ballistic inefficiencies of interior walls. That and the supposed static nature of the bad guy in the room which isn't true unless they're sleeping and not an active shooter. These topics and a few others rarely come up in discussions of tactical entry but indeed need to. A determine shooter only has to see a piece of clothing or hear someone out side the door and place rounds at a high rate of fire through the walls either side of the door where the team is stacked. The team then has to decide whether they enter the fatal funnel under fire or retreat. Remember, they have a different set of ROE. Innocents maybe in the room so they can't shoot back through he walls.

There are so many factors to take into account and the more information the police have the better when they get on scene. But it really boils down to training and determination of the tactical team. Everyone wants to be high speed low drag until a situation comes up and rounds are coming through the wall. Police officers are people with families and a life outside the department. They aren't immersed an overseas in war 24/7 where the mind takes on a different view of reality and mission. Uvalde Officers did exactly as I suspected, and a few of my close friends acknowledge that as we had many discussions about a determined school shooter. Almost 400 ended up on scene with well over an hour to take out a single untrained shooter. UNTRAINED.

Entry teams over time can get too cocky kicking down doors of wasted drug dealers and 3AM and it give them a false sense of superiority. A committed fighter or trained terrorist, then some officers are likely not seeing their families again. That's a huge ask of anyone.

As for this article, I see it as a bit of feel good propaganda designed to let the local public know that their police departments are ready and up to the task should a similar situation like Uvalde come up. I will not speak to the picture and or the tactical aspect of it. It is what it is and served a purpose for the article.
 
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spat

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RedBreast21 said:
There isn't a one size fits all tactical solution to situations involving school incidents. Slow methodical clearing of a structure offers the entry team the highest possible amount of safety but clearly puts innocents in danger. Dynamic entry requires more skill and practice but if a determined shooter is in the room, someone on the team is getting hit. Ballistic shields can play a safety role in this. Law enforcement oaffiers are bound by ROE, that's rules of engagement, where as the shooter is free to engage by any means they see fit. When I have been involved in discussions of a tactical nature I always bring up the ballistic inefficiencies of interior walls. That a the suposed staic nature of the bad guy in the room. Topics that rarely comes up in discussions of tactical entry. A determine shooter only has to see a piece of clothing or hear someone out side the door and place rounds at a high rate of fire through the walls either side of the door where the team is stacked. The team then has to decide whether they enter the fatal funnel under fire or retreat. Remember, they have a different set of ROE. Innocents maybe in the room so they can't shoot back through he walls.

There are so many factors to take into account and the more information the police have the better when they get on scene. But it really boils down to training and determination of the tactical team. Everyone wants to be high speed low drag until a situation comes up and rounds are coming through the wall. Police officers are people with families and a life outside the department. They aren't immersed an overseas in war 24/7 where the mind take on a different view of reality and mission. Uvalde Officers did exactly as I suspected, and a few of my close friends acknowledge that. Almost 400 ended up on scene with well over an hour to take out a single untrained shooter. UNTRAINED.

Entry teams over time can get too cocky kicking down doors of wasted drug dealers and 3AM and it give them a false sense of superiority. A committed fighter or trained terrorist and some officers are likely not seeing their families again. That's a huge ask of anyone.

As for this article, I see it as a bit of feel good propagada designed to let the local public know that their police departments are ready and up to the task should a similar situation like Uvalde come up. I will not speak to the picture and or the tactical aspect of it. It is what it is and served a purpose for the article.
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To say nothing of IEDs.

The columbine kids built some. They didn't work, but they attempted them.

Go ahead, kick in that boobytrapped door. Hope it doesn't get your whole entry team killed instantly.

That's the problem with waiting. It gives a tactically minded killer more time to prep his environment.

In that case a mediocre ad hoc team of a couple average officers that enter immediately could fare much better than the best swat team in the state 45 mins later.

Hell, a basic prank trap where you replace the garbage can full of water with gasoline, then toss a road flare could immolate an entire entry team.
 
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