Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Freddy. Those kids were Mexican Americans. If you are going to say nonsense, at least get the nonsense right.
Off-duty officer in Anaheim fires weapon in altercation with teenager
- Thread starter EMSBronco
- Start date
There isn't any specific language that I know of.
The legal system - from the first cop on scene to the last line of appeal - always judges the reasonableness of actions which draw the attention of law enforcement. If every single aspect of life had to be encoded in the law, the world would be a much worse place than it is now.
It's really no different than if you knock over your mother's most expensive vase as you walk out the door. Criminal mischief or an accident? Even better example: broke someone's home window? Cop entering to intercede in a suicide attempt (I've done this)? Burglary attempt? Kid thew a ball (on purpose? By accident?) Construction worker doing it to remove an old window? Criminal mischief or justified? The facts will determine that.
The variables of the situation will determine the reasonableness of the actions taken, not specific wording in a specific law.
Pointing a legal weapon at a possible threat can absolutely be justified by the circumstances. No hard rule says "civilian? No good! Cop? Of course he can!" In fact no hard rule exists at all.
speedkills27
6.5 Creedmoor
I feel like the off duty officer holding the perp until the on duty officers got there was ok. Once the situation escalated to the point he had to draw his gun he should have released that kid and put two hands on that weapon. There where multiple potential attackers at different angles, tactically I feel like you need to switch to self defense mode. Its not like that kid was a robbery or murder suspect, we're talking about trespassing here. Im just a civilian so my opinion might go against what the officers are trained to do but thats my 
camper4lyfe
.308 Win
I think the guy dragging the kid backwards across multiple properties is a combination of trying to detain him until uniformed officers arrive and trying to keep himself from being surrounded and keeping all the kids in front of him as best he can. As soon as they started to corner/surround him, he drew his firearm and the kids scattered.
I still believe the discharge was a negligent one, not an intentional act. Based solely on the video, the ND was the only thing he did wrong.
I still believe the discharge was a negligent one, not an intentional act. Based solely on the video, the ND was the only thing he did wrong.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Suppose the cop witnessed the kid robbing an old lady on the sidewalk in front of his property?
Would his actions have been the same where he drags the kid around? No.
If a real crime was committed, he would have been on the ground and detained. That is the issue. Since no real crime was committed, he put himself into that situation with bad tactics.
The key here is if he needed to be detained. If the answer is yes, then he should have been decisively detained right then and there with whatever force was necessary to safely detain him.
That didn't happen and that's the issue. If it was just a mouthing off, he shouldn't have been detained.
Would his actions have been the same where he drags the kid around? No.
If a real crime was committed, he would have been on the ground and detained. That is the issue. Since no real crime was committed, he put himself into that situation with bad tactics.
The key here is if he needed to be detained. If the answer is yes, then he should have been decisively detained right then and there with whatever force was necessary to safely detain him.
That didn't happen and that's the issue. If it was just a mouthing off, he shouldn't have been detained.
So, you are saying that the copper should have taken the kid to the ground while all the other thug, bastard kids were standing around? Leaving himself to attacks from above?
Will, I am sorry, you know what you speak of.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Are there different levels of detainment when the suspect does not cooperate and resists?
Yes there are.
Of course.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Explain. Because what you are telling me is that if a crime is committed that requires detainment, it depends on the level of the crime if force should be used when the perp resists.
Gotta be honest Will, I am not sure of the question.
I think what you are asking is...
Depends on the crime, the attitude and actions of the detained; will dictate the level of force needed for detainment.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
What I'm saying is that had the boy mugged and old lady, he would have been taken to the ground if he resisted.
Had he been in uniform and caught him doing a petty crime like public urination or having and open container, he would have been taken to the ground if he resisted.
But somehow this cop thought the kid committed something that required detainment but pussy footed around and got himself into trouble.
The key point here is if he needed to be detained. If yes and he resisted, he should have been taken down.
Had he been in uniform and caught him doing a petty crime like public urination or having and open container, he would have been taken to the ground if he resisted.
But somehow this cop thought the kid committed something that required detainment but pussy footed around and got himself into trouble.
The key point here is if he needed to be detained. If yes and he resisted, he should have been taken down.
Would not have been safe for the officer to take him to the ground. Too many threats around him.
camper4lyfe
.308 Win
Would taking him to the ground not have potentially escalated the situation beyond where it actually went? Much like pushing someone vs punching them in the mouth, pushing can get the point across but punching them in the mouth will get the point across AND piss them off to retaliate even more.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Agreed. So now off dutyOfficer Perfect goes into pizza hut for lunch and witnesses an all out brawl in there involving 15 teenage boys. There are bats, chairs, ect being used as weapons.
Does Officer Perfect go in there and drag the main kid by the arm or does he call for backup and observe, follow, and report?
Seriously, too many variables. I know what you are getting at, these are questions that cannot be answered.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
They can absolutely be answered. Was there a crime committed? If yes was the officer physically able to detain the perp? If no, why did he use poor judgement and paint himself into a corner?
Those are the variables.
No, they are not all of the variables.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Yes they are. It can't get any more basic then that. If he needed to detain and it was not possible, he should have followed and let backup arrive rather than put his life in jeopardy.
That's the basics but his ego was more important.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Even though the video doesn't show the beginning, it's obvious what may have happened here based on what was said throughout the course of the video by both parties multiple times. Of course there could have been additional variables such as other crimes committed but going by what was said...
Kid Scumbag and his friends walked on his lawn. Officer Dummy didn't like it and says something.
Kid Scumbag mouthed off in front of the girl he was walking with and told the cop to fuck off and eluded that he had a gun.
Officer Dummy's ego got hurt and he pursued to detain to teach the kid a lesson. Had Officer Dummy really believed the kid to have a gun, action would have been different and there would have been no tugging and shenanigans.
Officer Dummy got way in over his head and couldn't detain. Rather then release and follow and report, he painted himself into a corner and negligently discharged his firearm after losing total control.
Anyone can say otherwise but the fact of the matter is if as an LEO if you cannot control the situation by yourself, you wait for backup rather then risking your life or others around you regardless of your ego.
Hot-headedness can get you killed.
Kid Scumbag and his friends walked on his lawn. Officer Dummy didn't like it and says something.
Kid Scumbag mouthed off in front of the girl he was walking with and told the cop to fuck off and eluded that he had a gun.
Officer Dummy's ego got hurt and he pursued to detain to teach the kid a lesson. Had Officer Dummy really believed the kid to have a gun, action would have been different and there would have been no tugging and shenanigans.
Officer Dummy got way in over his head and couldn't detain. Rather then release and follow and report, he painted himself into a corner and negligently discharged his firearm after losing total control.
Anyone can say otherwise but the fact of the matter is if as an LEO if you cannot control the situation by yourself, you wait for backup rather then risking your life or others around you regardless of your ego.
Hot-headedness can get you killed.
If the punk implied he had a gun, then we aren't talking about a grass-crossing incident here or ego issues.
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I have sympathy for the guy because he was badly outnumbered and he did not even brandish his gun until it looked like he was about to be pounced from multiple sides. Misfiring his gun was a huge mistake and will look bad in court.
Beyond all this, sympathies aside, he was never in danger at first and he shouldn't have been dragging that kid around. If the kid was about to be arrested he could have done that as a cop, but as a regular joe I'm not sure he had the legal authority to do it (can you restrain somebody who has damaged property? I am not sure....).
Beyond all this, sympathies aside, he was never in danger at first and he shouldn't have been dragging that kid around. If the kid was about to be arrested he could have done that as a cop, but as a regular joe I'm not sure he had the legal authority to do it (can you restrain somebody who has damaged property? I am not sure....).
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Well regardless if the kid said he that he had a gun or not, the cops actions taken against the kid were that of a man not having a gun.
We all know if he had reason to believe the kid had a gun, he would have been held at gunpoint and or shot if the wrong move was made. And rightfully so.
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Toecutter
.308 Win
F that kids got what they were giving. At that age if that was me and my parents saw the video I would of got my ass kicked for being disrespectful to my elders . Raise animals and they will be treated as such. in sure it's not the first time those little shits were on his property.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Whether he deserved it or not, is not the issue.
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Yeah it is, a big part of it anyway.
Robin
Robin
Rights matter, but that's what all-too-often derails these conversations. Dealing with shitbags is not a perfect science conducted in a vaccuum. Shitbags sometimes get theirs and definitely deserve it. Getting all ACLU every time a perp gets his is why criminals are treated with kids gloves nowadays. That needs to change.
Not justified, he could have just let go. He never said he was an officer. Now what if a cc bystander saw an adult male grabbing on a kid and pulled out his gun thinking he was being abducted? Bad on the off duty side. What if that bullet went into a bedroom of a neighbor and hit someone?
I just read that no charges will be filed.
These are the more brazen protests which will start to get leftists shot. Consider this a test run into good neighborhoods to see what they can get away with.
No Charges Filed Against Off-Duty LAPD Officer, Anaheim Mayor 'Deeply Disturbed' By Video
No Charges Filed Against Off-Duty LAPD Officer, Anaheim Mayor 'Deeply Disturbed' By Video