Ukraine - Russia Conflict (Original Title: Things are heating up in the Donbass)

[livingston]

U.S. to send 31 Abrams tanks to Ukraine to help fend off invading Russia in major policy reversal​

e Biden administration announced Wednesday that it will send 31 M1 Abrams tanks to Ukraine in a major escalation of U.S. efforts to help Kyiv in its war against Russia.

President Biden is expected to announce the decision Wednesday afternoon, according to senior White House officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.


The tanks will be purchased with funds from the congressionally approved Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative, rather than being pulled out of the U.S. arsenal. The security assistance package provides long-range funding for weapons and equipment to be purchased to help Ukraine defend itself.

U.S. to send 31 Abrams tanks to Ukraine to help fend off invading Russia in major policy reversal

The U.S. and Germany announced Wednesday they are sending dozens of advanced tanks to Ukraine to help the war-torn country bolster its defenses for an expected Russian offensive in the spring.

www.washingtontimes.com

 

[Arjuna]

Russia claims Leopard 2 tanks may become "dirty nuclear bomb"

 

[Vapor]

The Abrams is a stupid choice for the Ukraine.


They don't have the training or logistics to support something like that.


They'd better off with Pattons or Lepoard 1s.

 

[Vapor]

Also, why not give them our old Abrams that need upgrading instead of brand new variants.


Unless we are giving them down spec versions.

 

[spat]

The Abrams is a stupid choice for the Ukraine.


They don't have the training or logistics to support something like that.


They'd better off with Pattons or Lepoard 1s.

They are a good choice because we have thousands more of them than our military even wants.

 

[GOPerfect]

 

[tirwin1]

U.S. to send 31 Abrams tanks to Ukraine to help fend off invading Russia in major policy reversal​

e Biden administration announced Wednesday that it will send 31 M1 Abrams tanks to Ukraine in a major escalation of U.S. efforts to help Kyiv in its war against Russia.

President Biden is expected to announce the decision Wednesday afternoon, according to senior White House officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.


The tanks will be purchased with funds from the congressionally approved Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative, rather than being pulled out of the U.S. arsenal. The security assistance package provides long-range funding for weapons and equipment to be purchased to help Ukraine defend itself.

U.S. to send 31 Abrams tanks to Ukraine to help fend off invading Russia in major policy reversal

The U.S. and Germany announced Wednesday they are sending dozens of advanced tanks to Ukraine to help the war-torn country bolster its defenses for an expected Russian offensive in the spring.

www.washingtontimes.com

In the article it states the earliest any abrams tanks would be delivered is in one year. So this is nothing but a headline for attention. The war may be over by the time the first abrams is even ready to be shipped.

As I see it the upcoming offensive by the russians will be the modern equivalent of a human wave attack. The question is whether the ukrainians will have the arms necessary to inflict enough casualties to stop the russian advance. The race is on - how fast can the russians mobilize their men versus how fast the ukrainians receive (and become proficient with) the new weapons.

 

[GOPerfect]

The Abrams is a stupid choice for the Ukraine.


They don't have the training or logistics to support something like that.


They'd better off with Pattons or Lepoard 1s.

Ding, ding ding.....


They do not need to know how to maintain them. They do not need to know how to service them.

The US will be sending Military personnel with these tanks to ensure they are operating to full capacity.

The Left wants and all out war. The WEF wants and all out war.

Anyone that thinks this is a good idea, is absolutely clueless to what this means. Clueless.

 

[GOPerfect]

M1 Abrams Tank System Maintainer is a full MOS in the Army.​

24 Weeks of training on this one piece of equipment. That is to only understand the basics of this tank.

 

[GOPerfect]

In the article it states the earliest any abrams tanks would be delivered is in one year. So this is nothing but a headline for attention. The war may be over by the time the first abrams is even ready to be shipped.

As I see it the upcoming offensive by the russians will be the modern equivalent of a human wave attack. The question is whether the ukrainians will have the arms necessary to inflict enough casualties to stop the russian advance. The race is on - how fast can the russians mobilize their men versus how fast the ukrainians receive (and become proficient with) the new weapons.

11 Abrams tanks were unloaded yesterday at a port in Germany.

I do not know if those tanks are the ones going to the Ukraine. One third of the promised tanks could have already been delivered to German soil.

 

[Vapor]

They are a good choice because we have thousands more of them than our military even wants.

The turbine engine that requires jet fuel is a nightmare in of itself for a 2nd or 3rd rate military alone.

Also, we will want all of them if we end up in a peer or near peer war. We don't have the manufacturing capacity of decades prior.

 

[GOPerfect]

People that think sending these tanks is a good idea have never worked on them, trained on them or have an understanding of these tanks....

 

[spat]

The turbine engine that requires jet fuel is a nightmare in of itself for a 2nd or 3rd rate military alone.

Also, we will want all of them if we end up in a peer or near peer war. We don't have the manufacturing capacity of decades prior.

That engine will run on basically any liquid that burns.

It will run quite happily on gasoline or regular diesel.

 

[spat]

This opens the door for Russia to claim (legitimately or not) the US has their own combatants on the field operating/services those tanks. Like the Flying Tigers of WWII.
Especially if they perform near the level of what might be expected by US troops.

What does it matter what Russia can claim ?

This is now a shooting war, not a political one. The sides have already been drawn up.

It matters not who is right or wrong, only who is left and who is dead.

 

[spat]

The implied point was that this is just another level of escalation. Russia will use it to their benefit if they can, bolster support among their allies. They have not declared war upon us but we are giving them more reason to.

Politics always has a place in war, before, during and after the shooting.

Not sure there's any point anymore.

What Allies do they have that they need to bolster support among ?

Iran ? North Korea ?

There isn't anyone left that matters that hasn't already chosen sides.

The only question now is how far it will escalate and who will blink first. You do not want to be the one to blink first. Better to escalate so fast that your opponent gets scared shitless and backs out.

 

[GOPerfect]

That engine will run on basically any liquid that burns.

It will run quite happily on gasoline or regular diesel.

This is true, mostly anyway. Couple of issues with running the "incorrect' fuels, first, many of the parts would need to be adjusted with each type of fuel, and second, with the best fuel; 0.6 MPG. You start tossing dirty and incorrect fuel, the mileage decreases even more.

The Ukraines are not trained on these tanks or their engines, like most things in this war, they will screw this up as well.

 

[GOPerfect]

Did somebody in the German Parliament just declare war on Russia?

Some of these people need to start paying closer attention to their words.

 

[holdover]

 

[Defilade]

Tanks? They don't have what they need with the 100+ billion we gave them? What's next F35's?

 

[Nevar]

fuk the you crane. they were never our friends and still aren't.
Where the hell is all the billions going ??? how about a true accounting

 

[spat]

They don't need to win them over per se, but prodding them into action may be a position...more escalation (your point of how far).

I don't really believe the goals of this war are traditional in the sense that we will 'win', so it really doesn't matter who blinks first. This is all a means to an end. The goals are global and the players are pawns.

But if you believe this fits the narrative of traditional war, like WWII, etc., or even the cold war in which we are fighting to 'advance Western Democracy', fine I won't argue, but I'd think you're wrong. That's a hard sell for me when I see all the ways in which our .gov is destroying it here at home.

"Better to escalate so fast that your opponent gets scared shitless and backs out" - if they didn't have nukes I'd agree...but when has that ever happened? Politicians don't get scared if soldiers die.

Maybe we are misunderstanding each other?

I'm still not sure what Russia ever thought they would gain from this, so I don’t know what they think "winning" would look like.

I think our goal is to destroy Russia as a world power, and I think that is a done deal at this point.

Ukraine's goal is just to still exist when this is all over, and I think they will do that as well.

 

[spat]

This is true, mostly anyway. Couple of issues with running the "incorrect' fuels, first, many of the parts would need to be adjusted with each type of fuel, and second, with the best fuel; 0.6 MPG. You start tossing dirty and incorrect fuel, the mileage decreases even more.

The Ukraines are not trained on these tanks or their engines, like most things in this war, they will screw this up as well.

Yes, with a sub optimal fuel it won't run as well.

But with almost any diesel like fuel (jet fuel, diesel, kerosene, etc, etc...) it should run just fine with hardly any noticeable difference.

The main sticking point there would be a fuel that has to high a gelling point for the temperatures you are experiencing, but if something else is using it for fuel in that environment it should be fine.


I have no doubt you can pull up to any gas station and just fill an M1 up front the diesel pump and go.

Or more likely have the tanker that was filling that gas station diverted to the area you are staging your tanks at.

 

[GOPerfect]

Yes, with a sub optimal fuel it won't run as well.

But with almost any diesel like fuel (jet fuel, diesel, kerosene, etc, etc...) it should run just fine with hardly any noticeable difference.

The main sticking point there would be a fuel that has to high a gelling point for the temperatures you are experiencing, but if something else is using it for fuel in that environment it should be fine.


I have no doubt you can pull up to any gas station and just fill an M1 up front the diesel pump and go.

Or more likely have the tanker that was filling that gas station diverted to the area you are staging your tanks at.

Back in the mid-90s I trained on the Abrams tank for a short spell. I do not remember all of the specifics, I do remember them saying that if we're going to run non-conventional fuel, there were a bunch of adjustments that needed to be made on the engine pack. Again it was a very long time ago and I do not remember the specifics

 

[Mosinitis]

Frau Blucher/Annalena just declared war on Russia on behalf of the entire West.

Contact information for German embassy-consulate.

Appointments, Hours & Contact,

We kindly ask for your understanding for increased waiting times for appointments with the Legal and Consular Section as we cannot offer the usual service and ask for your understanding. Please refrain from non urgent inquiries.

www.germany.info

 

[tirwin1]

She should have just said police action.

 

[GOPerfect]

Frau Blucher/Annalena just declared war on Russia on behalf of the entire West.

Contact information for German embassy-consulate.

Appointments, Hours & Contact,

We kindly ask for your understanding for increased waiting times for appointments with the Legal and Consular Section as we cannot offer the usual service and ask for your understanding. Please refrain from non urgent inquiries.

www.germany.info

I mentioned this up a few posts, I was going to post the video once I got home.

 

[holdover]

• M1 Abrams Main Battle Tank. Fuel Consumption A tank will need approximately 300 gallons every eight hours; this will vary depending on mission, terrain, and weather. A single tank takes 10 minutes to refuel.

50 tanks x300 gallons 15,000 gallons per 8 hr

Tanks? They don't have what they need with the 100+ billion we gave them? What's next F35's?

My read is they are desperate.

15,000 gallons per 8 hours! Throw in some fuel for bradleys

For example, an armor company comprising 14 M2 Bradley fighting vehicles is conducting a one-day operation on rugged terrain. In a 24-hour period, the Bradleys are expected to be at a tactical idle for 16 hours and traverse conditions for eight hours. Expected fuel consumption at idle would be calculated in the following way: 14 × 1.4 GPH × 16 = ~314 gallons Expected fuel consumption during operations on rugged terrain is calculated like this: 14 × 18 GPH × 8 = 2,016 gallons Next, we add the products to find the total amount of fuel required. ~314 gallons + 2,016 gallons = ~2,330 gallons

 

[GOPerfect]

Frau Blucher/Annalena just declared war on Russia on behalf of the entire West.

Contact information for German embassy-consulate.

Appointments, Hours & Contact,

We kindly ask for your understanding for increased waiting times for appointments with the Legal and Consular Section as we cannot offer the usual service and ask for your understanding. Please refrain from non urgent inquiries.

www.germany.info

 

[holdover]

I'm still not sure what Russia ever thought they would gain from this, so I don’t know what they think "winning" would look like.

Honestly, I believe they seriously miscalculated the situation. Im pretty sure they expected the Ukraine army and the people to jump in on their side and it would be a cake walk like Czechoslovakia . a few days of sporadic fighting and its over .

they expected a beer run .

 

[holdover]

Oh boy, somebody is getting an ass chewing