VanDerStok v Garland Ghost Gun Case - LATEST UPDATES!

[VietnamEraVet]

Came across this absolute horseshit article published on Vox about this case after I had read the brief filed yesterday. The filed brief accurately laid out the governments arguments, and then tore them down completely.

Here is the filing: https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/23/23A82/274511/20230802162019194_2023-08-02 VanDerStok - Resp in Oppn to Stay vf.pdf

Meanwhile, the lowlife who wrote this POS article... What a crock of completely biased and falsified pile of shit… And of course, the libs and anti's on the left will read and take it as 100% true. Absolutely unbelievable.

A new Supreme Court case could allow criminals to get guns without background checks

The fight over “ghost guns” arrives on the Court’s shadow docket.

www.vox.com

And here is the DOJ response just filed...

https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/23/23A82/274604/20230803162831282_VanDerStok%20Stay%20Reply%20vf%2023A82.pdf

 

[Acer-m14]

 

[Zerex]

Alito gave the Gov't and plaintiffs, A WEEK to file motions, as to why the stay should not be made permanent.

This is the result.

This lawsuit filing noted, is THE PLAINTIFFS ANSWER, to support the Fed District Courts stay, that declares the "Final Rule" Unconstitutional,, and to oppose the Gov't deranged attempts to uphold the "Final Rule" and get the stay lifted ..................to restore totalitariansism and terror against us.

It may be that Alito upholds the lower courts' destruction of the Final Rule...in which case the gov't; will appeal to SCOTUS............but if SCOTUS refuses to grant Certiorari, and lets the Alito judgement on the lower District Courts ruling be the last word, we have won.

It is up to Alito now.

 

[Acer-m14]

U.S. Supreme Court Issues ORDER in Biden Ghost Gun Case...​

they got a extension .. ohhh we can't make up the bullshit we need more time ..

 

[Zerex]

Actually, Alito will decide the issue by August 8th..........he has to read the briefs that he ordered to be submitted a week ago.....so he extended the stay, which is good.

The stay prohibits the Feds from enforcing the ghost gun rule against the plaintiffs, until the decision is rendered, one way or the other....

 

[Acer-m14]

Actually, Alito will decide the issue by August 8th..........he has to read the briefs that he ordered to be submitted a week ago.....so he extended the stay, which is good.

The stay prohibits the Feds from enforcing the ghost gun rule against the plaintiffs, until the decision is rendered, one way or the other....

its the otherway .. the stay is on the lower courts ruling that its unconstitutional .. so the frame and receiver rule is back in effect till the 8th

 

[Dr. Evil]

Barrett sides with the loons.

 

[VietnamEraVet]

Well, looks like BOTH that traitorous lying prick Roberts AND Amy Coney Barrett sided with the libtards and against the 2A. Disgusting.

Supreme Court allows continued regulation of so-called 'ghost guns'

The U.S. Supreme Court has sided with the Biden administration and will temporarily allow the government to regulate so-called "ghost guns" that can be made from kits at home.

www.foxnews.com

 

[thughes]

"The public-safety interests in reversing the flow of ghost guns to dangerous and otherwise prohibited persons easily outweighs the minor costs that respondents will incur," Solicitor General Elizabeth Prelogar, the administration’s top Supreme Court lawyer, wrote in a court filing.

Didn't the SCOTUS just recently throw out the "balancing" test as unconstitutional? Seems to me it was a little something called NYSRPA v Bruen....or something like that? Maybe I'm not remembering it correctly?

 

[Acer-m14]

SCOTUS hands ATF a WIN in “Ghost Guns” case… What just happened, who voted AGAINST us, and what now?

Amy on the bench tossed us under the bench .. aft receiver ( ghost gun ) back in full effect ..

 

[Zerex]

Garland v. Vanderstok

www.scotusblog.com

Application (23A82) for stay presented to Justice Alito and by him referred to the Court is granted. The June 30, 2023 order and July 5, 2023 judgment of the United States District Court for the Northern District of Texas, case No. 4:22-cv-691, insofar as they vacate the final rule of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, 87 Fed. Reg. 24652 (April 26, 2022), are stayed pending the disposition of the appeal in the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit and disposition of a petition for a writ of certiorari, if such a writ is timely sought. Should certiorari be denied, this stay shall terminate automatically. In the event certiorari is granted, the stay shall terminate upon the sending down of the judgment of this Court. Justice Thomas, Justice Alito, Justice Gorsuch, and Justice Kavanaugh would deny the application for stay.

What this means is that the Case is JUST remanded back down to the Court of Appeals 5th circuit for adjudication of the stay, and it was there anyway.
IT IS NOT OVER.

There pending appeal, at the Ct of Appeals, is pending, and this appeal to Alito, was to try and get the Stay oveturned permanently, BEFORE it was adjudicated at the Ct of Appeals.......................it was an end run around the Ct of Appeals.

The SCOTUS wants the lower courts to do their job..STRICT SCUTINY

If the Appeals CT agrees with the lower courts elimination of the Final Rule......then it is over...if the Appeals Ct rejects the original ruling that the FR is unconstitutional, then it goes back up to SCOTUS.

 

[VietnamEraVet]

Garland v. Vanderstok

www.scotusblog.com

Application (23A82) for stay presented to Justice Alito and by him referred to the Court is granted. The June 30, 2023 order and July 5, 2023 judgment of the United States District Court for the Northern District of Texas, case No. 4:22-cv-691, insofar as they vacate the final rule of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, 87 Fed. Reg. 24652 (April 26, 2022), are stayed pending the disposition of the appeal in the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit and disposition of a petition for a writ of certiorari, if such a writ is timely sought. Should certiorari be denied, this stay shall terminate automatically. In the event certiorari is granted, the stay shall terminate upon the sending down of the judgment of this Court. Justice Thomas, Justice Alito, Justice Gorsuch, and Justice Kavanaugh would deny the application for stay.

What this means is that the Case is JUST remanded back down to the Court of Appeals 5th circuit for adjudication of the stay, and it was there anyway.
IT IS NOT OVER.

There pending appeal, at the Ct of Appeals, is pending, and this appeal to Alito, was to try and get the Stay oveturned permanently, BEFORE it was adjudicated at the Ct of Appeals.......................it was an end run around the Ct of Appeals.

The SCOTUS wants the lower courts to do their job..STRICT SCUTINY

If the Appeals CT agrees with the lower courts elimination of the Final Rule......then it is over...if the Appeals Ct rejects the original ruling that the FR is unconstitutional, then it goes back up to SCOTUS.

If the 5th Circuit rules in our favor, the Biden Admin will appeal to SCOTUS. If the 5th rules against us, we will be appealing to SCOTUS. I wouldn't normally imagine that SCOTUS does not take the case either way, but Hey, with Roberts, who knows? Now, if the 5th rules and SCOTUS refuses to grant Cert, however the 5th rules, somebody would win at that point. I could see that with that traitorous Roberts, that if the 5th ruled against us, and he refused to grant Cert, that we (pro 2A) would lose. And given how he just ruled, along with Barrett, that could be a real possibility.

In any event, on it goes. And Justice Delayed IS Justice Denied.

 

[Acer-m14]

The SCOTUS wants the lower courts to do their job..STRICT SCUTINY

they did .. they ruled that the ATF rule was Unconstitutional ,,


but now the ATF rule is back in effect per SCOTUS ..

 

[Grimscale]

it was an end run around the Ct of Appeals

It was an attempt to keep the Rights of Americans intact while the .gov argued they should be allowed to infringe those Rights.

ANY time a law run afoul of the Rights of Americans, the default should be a stay on that law until it is adjudicated.

A lot of damage to innocent, law-abiding people is going to occur while this case wends its way though the system.

 

[Cavalry]

according to the Justice Department, these incomplete frames and receivers are often very easy to finish. In some cases, a ghost gun buyer can build a working gun after drilling a single additional hole in the kit’s frame. In other cases, they merely need to sand off a small plastic rail.

They honestly just make this shit up as they go. The ATF has for all of recent history had the authority to determine if something is a firearm or not a firearm, aka a "80%". More than once they have bounced something back to the manufacturer and told them to do XYZ its too easy to build.
I really want to know about these mythical non firearms where one has to drill a single hole or sand off a plastic rail

 

[Zerex]

SCOTUS voted to preserve the chain of command..."get the Appeals CT to do their job and then we will act if they do it wrong.
This is to protect the rule of law and to prevent the Dems from attcaking the Court for allowing "skipping".
We do have Alito, Roberts, Kavanaugh, Barrett, Gorsuch. and 5 IS enough. Roberts is likely to go with them.

 

[VietnamEraVet]

They honestly just make this shit up as they go. The ATF has for all of recent history had the authority to determine if something is a firearm or not a firearm, aka a "80%". More than once they have bounced something back to the manufacturer and told them to do XYZ its too easy to build.
I really want to know about these mythical non firearms where one has to drill a single hole or sand off a plastic rail

I get that the government is afraid of these 80% frames. And, as some of our forefathers noted, the government SHOULD fear the people and not the other way around. Of course, that utterly corrupt Biden and his surrounding ilk have told us on one hand that no one can overthrow the government without weapons like F-14's and other high end weapons, and on the other hand, they are working hard to take ordinary handguns and long guns away from us. Which begs the question: - What the Hell are they worried about?

Basically, it is control. They absolutely want to know exactly who has what. And now they want to control the ammo supply as we are seeing.

But as for the 80% finished frames such as the P80 models, any comments about them having to drill only a single hole, or sand off a rail would be complete bullshit. And of course, they have gone to great lengths to try and suppress do it yourself guide videos on the internet.

The reality is very different. For example, to build a P80 kit of a Glock 17 or 19 clone, it takes:

Knowledge, and a willingness to take risk to do something you have never done before. Most of us aren't gunsmiths.
Money to buy the 80% lower frame.
Money to buy the lower internal parts kit.
Money to buy the slide and barrel.
Money to buy the slide parts kit.
Money to buy a magazine.
A vise.
A drill.
A Dremel (or equal). (because P80 frames are made from a glass reinforced polymer, and are NOT easy to grind down.)
Special Dremel cutting tools to grind the recoil spring channel.
Drilling out 6 holes (perfectly, or you now have a worthless piece of plastic).
Grinding off about 5 different areas (being careful to not damage the plastic frame).
Lubricant.
Polishing and finishing the rails as needed.
Assembling, fitting, and modifying about 40 some pieces overall, including installing pins into 10 holes. Perfectly, and in the correct order.
Time and patience. Likely an hour or two to be careful and do it right.

And when all is said and done, you could buy a brand new, genuine Glock 17 or 19 for less money. (Or, if you are a criminal, you might go steal one). Kind of like a car. Sure, you can buy all of the parts one by one, and try building it yourself. You might get it done, but you will pay more to buy the individual parts, along with the time and effort to do it. Or, you can go buy one.

Sure, some criminals will go to the effort to build one, but one Hell of a lot of the others will steal one, or use an assault baseball bat, or assault knife, or other assault blunt object. That route is much easier than building one of these.

Interestingly enough, I have read up some on this, and it seems as though the government is now lumping in mass manufactured firearms that criminals have GROUND OFF, or DEFACED the serial numbers, in with these 80% frames to grossly inflate the numbers of so called unserialized "ghost guns" found at crime scenes. Further, as some have noted, tracking a gun's serial number very rarely does anything to catch a criminal when the gun is gotten from a crime scene. Sure, it can tell them that it was sold from XYZ Gun shop 15 years ago, but that is about it. Of course, occasionally, they are able to return a stolen firearm to the rightful owner. IIRC, guns didn't even have to be serialized prior to 1968.

No, the government is all about control, and that's why they want to stop these. They are constantly trying to infringe on the rights of lawful gun owners instead of fully prosecuting and imprisoning criminals, - like Hunter Biden, to name just one. They desperately want to know WHO has them in the event they decide to try and confiscate them someday. And if ordinary Americans can build guns at home (just as our ancestors did to help free us from tyrannical British Rule), and have ever since, to modern day, - well, that scares the shit out of them. And whether citizens can do that at home with a 3D printer, a CNC mill, or a kit and some tools, they fear that.

 

[Cavalry]

I get that the government is afraid of these 80% frames.

I am curious about what was the catalyst for this fear. Americans have been building their own guns since before there was an America. I remember (fondly) the days $200 Romy G's kits with a barrel. For another $100 you had something that went bang, was legal and it was still a deal as a shitty Century was $425. Sure, you needed a spot welder, press , jigs, riveting equipment etc, to do it right, but there has always been a ghetto quick and sleezy way as well like screw builds and prebents. No one keeps track of imported kits, but there has to be hundreds of thousands if not millions brought in over the last couple decades and likely put back into circulation.
Other than P80's being popular and needing less upfront tools why are they so much more scary?

 

[Zerex]

The 2nd Amendment was all about FEAR............ not hunting or fishing.
the Founders simply could not get the proposed Consitution ratified by the people, unless a Bill of Rights, including gun rights, was included...ten demands that were finally met, and added.

Kind of biblical, eh?

It was intended to sow FEAR among all government officials of the day, about common ownership and possession of guns......those gov't officials who in 1780, who would take your guns and homes, like the King tried and did. The Militia Act of 1794, for the unorganized militia, which was the People, armed...... confirmed it.

TODAY, THE FEAR of gun ownership, by over 100 million gun owners and 450 million guns and trillions of rounds of ammo, is palpable...........the commies cannot have gunownership, as a basic right...and a fearful block to their agents, who want your homes, for illegals and minorites.

Think not? Think again. WE, are preventing this. US, WE, by simple, QUIET mass possession of guns and the danger to confiscators. It is like having an atomic bomb, sitting there quietly, menacing, not the deer,........... but the King, his agents the confiscators, and the Commies.

The entire Constitution is an abomination, to those king loving Royal wannabe's.

 

[Acer-m14]

 

[spat]

I am curious about what was the catalyst for this fear. Americans have been building their own guns since before there was an America. I remember (fondly) the days $200 Romy G's kits with a barrel. For another $100 you had something that went bang, was legal and it was still a deal as a shitty Century was $425. Sure, you needed a spot welder, press , jigs, riveting equipment etc, to do it right, but there has always been a ghetto quick and sleezy way as well like screw builds and prebents. No one keeps track of imported kits, but there has to be hundreds of thousands if not millions brought in over the last couple decades and likely put back into circulation.
Other than P80's being popular and needing less upfront tools why are they so much more scary?

I am kicking myself for not picking up a $300 1919a4 kit when they were all over the place.

It was always "not the right time".

And now if I want one it will be thousands.

 

[Acer-m14]

 

[Cavalry]

I am kicking myself for not picking up a $300 1919a4 kit when they were all over the place.

It was always "not the right time".

And now if I want one it will be thousands.

The good old days. We will not however talk about $300 real deal MG42s

 

[fresch]

Amendment #1 = you are not the king!
" #2 = Bang! Told you, you are not the king!