Problem Renewing my NY permit

[zorro]

Now this is a strange issue

I have my NYS permit and it is due for renewal around October

Permit was issued by Oneida County and I have a cabin in the Adirondacks

However, my main residence is now in Florida and as a result, Oneida demand annual renewal of my permit - that is not the issue

My issue is that I MUST get this form completed for each renewal by a local (Florida) LEO/Agency - there are ZERO EXCEPTIONS, and it MUST be this form





The problem however, is this form appears to collect more info than a normal application requests and also goes into what I think is HIPA information, which no LEO/Agency has access to

I have been to 3 large Police departments down here, had a full background check completed, but NONE OF THEM WILL SIGN THIS FORM

TBH - I can understand it as they simply don't have the info being requested

I cannot see anyway out of this - I just spoke to Oneida County and their response is that is my problem and unless the form is 100% complete, they will revoke/cancel my permit at renewal

I need the permit for when I am up at the cabin and in the woods

Any suggestions at all?

I really need a local Police Officedr down here that I know to sign the form........................but I just dont know anyone at this point

 

[thughes]

Too late, should have never informed NY that you moved. Not sure what you can do about it now.......bummer.

 

[Bustedknees]

The problem is your Oneida County Sheriff is a Democrat.

 

[Bustedknees]

That letter says local "OR" Law enforcement office. Find a officer who shoots at clubs near you in Florida.

 

[zorro]

Thanks Guys

I had to let them know as my cabin does not have any mailbox and they sent a few things out which were returned - that caused a major issue for me as well at the time

I am trying to get a friend down here who may know a local cop in his community

But crazy

 

[wirehairfan]

The form is outrageous. Oneida County is asking Florida law enforcement to certify that you have not committed any crime. How would Florida know what you've done? At most Florida LE knows whether or not you were arrested for a crime.

 

[kev74]

Maybe forward to FPC, SAF & GOA.

It's a long shot, but one of them might be interested in a county going rogue.

 

[zorro]

The form is outrageous. Oneida County is asking Florida law enforcement to certify that you have not committed any crime. How would Florida know what you've done? At most Florida LE knows whether or not you were arrested for a crime.

100% agree - FL ran a background check and confirmed nothing criminal or pending - how on earth can FL answer any of the other questions - how can ANY department answer those - no addictions, no mental health issues, etc

Totally unacceptable really and basically they have me by the balls and squeezing hard!

 

[zorro]

That letter says local "OR" Law enforcement office. Find a officer who shoots at clubs near you in Florida.

Thanks for the suggestion.

I went to 3 different departments and all refused to sign

I just dont know of anyone down here who knows me and would sign this - not even at the local range

Totally crazy - had my NY permit for almost 10 years now and will lose it over this

 

[Cooolone]

If ANY of that is not spelled out in NYS LAW, then I would fill in those boxes with a huge "NA"... And let the Sheriff deny the application which would constitute malfeasance on their behalf!

Sheriff's can't make their own rules, sorry!

 

[zorro]

Pretty sure none of that is in NYS Law.................though with everything the wicked witch put in place for NYS................i honestly dont know

 

[pshift]

The thought process is what is broken here. Different states, different rules. They are likely thinking that this is for NYS on a NYS form and not FL. They are likely unwilling to sign anything related to out of state applications, risking their jobs if their bosses or the politicians ever found out. We are living in biozarro workd anyways.

Most of us do what we want and are turning 'darker shades of grey'....

 

[zorro]

Yeah - may need to just leave a pistol up there, rather than travelling with it to/from

But just a pain in the ass really

 

[kev74]

What ever you do, don't surrender your permit. Make them revoke it. You loose any leverage you might have if you voluntarily hand it over.

Plus it makes more work for them.

 

[zorro]

What ever you do, don't surrender your permit. Make them revoke it. You loose any leverage you might have if you voluntarily hand it over.

Plus it makes more work for them.

I am sure they will try to revoke it and ask that I "surrender" my hand guns which are on the permit

Thankfully i have my CT and FL permits which fully cover any guns shown on the NYS permit - so they wont be getting anything handed to them

 

[kev74]

I am sure they will try to revoke it and ask that I "surrender" my hand guns which are on the permit

Thankfully i have my CT and FL permits which fully cover any guns shown on the NYS permit - so they wont be getting anything handed to them

I wouldn't be surprised if they were bluffing.

They will expose themselves to a LOT of legal scrutiny and civil liability if they follow through and hold you to a standard above what the law requires.

 

[Bustedknees]

I simply sign a piece of paper every time I add a pistol saying I haven't been arrested or committed crimes, went crazy and such. I don't believe they ever check.

 

[thughes]

Hey Zorro, check this: "If the New York state police discover as a result of the recertification process that a licensee failed to provide a change of address, the New York state police shall not require the licensing officer to revoke such license."

Straight from the horse's mouth: NYS Open Legislation | NYSenate.gov

Go tell your Oneida Sheriff to eat a bag of dicks!

 

[thughes]

What ever you do, don't surrender your permit. Make them revoke it. You loose any leverage you might have if you voluntarily hand it over.

Plus it makes more work for them.

Pretty sure that's a bad idea...The SAFE act states that if you become ineligible to hold a permit, it will be revoked and you need to surrender ALL of your firearms (rifles and SG's too):

(c) In any instance in which a person's license is suspended or
revoked under paragraph (a) or (b) of this subdivision, such person
shall surrender such license to the appropriate licensing official and
any and all firearms, rifles, or shotguns owned or possessed by such
person shall be surrendered to an appropriate law enforcement agency as
provided in subparagraph (f) of paragraph one of subdivision a of
section 265.20 of this chapter. In the event such license, firearm,
shotgun, or rifle is not surrendered, such items shall be removed and
declared a nuisance and any police officer or peace officer acting
pursuant to his or her special duties is authorized to remove any and
all such weapons.

NYS Open Legislation | NYSenate.gov

www.nysenate.gov

 

[FP1201]

I'm not sure why you have to renew/recertify with the County when it's done on the NYSP Web Site with the exception of NYC which makes you submit a new packet with each renewal.
If your cabin is in the Adirondacks and that's your residence while here, then move your Licenses to that County.
I wonder if or how this will play into your "non-resident" or "Part time Resident" Tax status?

 

[kev74]

Pretty sure that's a bad idea...The SAFE act states that if you become ineligible to hold a permit, it will be revoked and you need to surrender ALL of your firearms (rifles and SG's too):

(c) In any instance in which a person's license is suspended or
revoked under paragraph (a) or (b) of this subdivision, such person
shall surrender such license to the appropriate licensing official and
any and all firearms, rifles, or shotguns owned or possessed by such
person shall be surrendered to an appropriate law enforcement agency as
provided in subparagraph (f) of paragraph one of subdivision a of
section 265.20 of this chapter. In the event such license, firearm,
shotgun, or rifle is not surrendered, such items shall be removed and
declared a nuisance and any police officer or peace officer acting
pursuant to his or her special duties is authorized to remove any and
all such weapons.

NYS Open Legislation | NYSenate.gov

www.nysenate.gov

For that to apply, it would have to be revoked under paragraph (a) or (b) of that subdivision. A made up, impossible to comply with yearly certification is not one of the reasons for revocation in (a) or (b). In any case, if OP's guns aren't in NY, it's not a concern.

Just my opinion though. I've been wrong before.

11. License: revocation and suspension. (a) The conviction of a
licensee anywhere of a felony or serious offense or a licensee at any
time becoming ineligible to obtain a license, including engaging in
conduct that would have resulted in the denial of a license, under this
section shall operate as or be grounds for, a revocation of the license.
A license may be revoked or suspended as provided for in section 530.14
of the criminal procedure law or section eight hundred forty-two-a of
the family court act. Except for a license issued pursuant to section
400.01 of this article, a license may be revoked and cancelled at any
time in the city of New York, and in the counties of Nassau and Suffolk,
by the licensing officer, and elsewhere than in the city of New York by
any judge or justice of a court of record; a license issued pursuant to
section 400.01 of this article may be revoked and cancelled at any time
by the licensing officer or any judge or justice of a court of record. A
license to engage in the business of dealer may be revoked or suspended
for any violation of the provisions of article thirty-nine-BB of the
general business law. The official revoking a license shall give written
notice thereof without unnecessary delay to the executive department,
division of state police, Albany, and shall also notify immediately the
duly constituted police authorities of the locality. The licensing
officer shall revoke any license issued in which an applicant knowingly
made a material false statement on the application. Notice of a
revocation under this subdivision shall be issued in writing and shall
include the basis for the determination, which shall be supported by a
preponderance of the evidence. Such notice shall also include
information regarding the ability to appeal such decision in accordance
with subdivision four-a of this section.

(b) Whenever the director of community services or his or her designee
makes a report pursuant to section 9.46 of the mental hygiene law, the
division of criminal justice services shall convey such information,
whenever it determines that the person named in the report possesses a
license issued pursuant to this section, to the appropriate licensing
official, who shall issue an order suspending or revoking such license.

 

[Keyzard]

I'm not sure why you have to renew/recertify with the County when it's done on the NYSP Web Site with the exception of NYC which makes you submit a new packet with each renewal.
If your cabin is in the Adirondacks and that's your residence while here, then move your Licenses to that County.
I wonder if or how this will play into your "non-resident" or "Part time Resident" Tax status?

This is the way. Erie was giving us all kinds of crap when we moved to PA. I called Allegany County, where our rural land is located, and explained to them we had moved to PA but still had property in their county where we spent the majority of the summer. They had us transfer our permits to Allegany and come in for new photos and cards. The permits have our rural property's address on them, and the county has our PA address as our mailing address.

The lack of consistency from county to county (especially since it is a "State Permit") is infuriating.

 

[Cooolone]

I am sure they will try to revoke it and ask that I "surrender" my hand guns which are on the permit

Thankfully i have my CT and FL permits which fully cover any guns shown on the NYS permit - so they wont be getting anything handed to them

Well, for a change of address that would be malfeasant! I doubt they would go to such an extreme, ie, revocation, bit sure they can play and 'ask'... Lol

Pretty sure that's a bad idea...The SAFE act states that if you become ineligible to hold a permit, it will be revoked and you need to surrender ALL of your firearms (rifles and SG's too):

Ummm... No, not necessarily! But if you don't you might suffer a search of your premises for them. If they are not within this State you don't have to do squat!

In any case, if OP's guns aren't in NY, it's not a concern.

^^^THIS^^^

The State has no jurisdiction outside it's borders. And you have no obligation to inform the State when your firearms leave it... Or where they might be, other than you do not possess the firearms in this State or it's jurisdiction!

My $0.02¢

 

[zorro]

So to be clear

my guns are all in Florida as of right now - I don’t leave anything at the cabin

I do however have a CT and FL permit which clearly covers my guns when in FL or CT

I do believe that based on the conversation I had today with Oneida, they will Immediately revoke my NYS permit if I don’t get their form signed by I think it is 11/1 - and currently, I am finding nobody that will sign it

My residency and state of residence is FL for tax purposes, employment etc

I am only at the cabin occasionally but that is not and has never been main residence - it doesn’t even have a mailbox and is 3 season only

So even if they revoke my NYS permit, my 2 other permits should allow me to retain all of my weapons in FL - I cannot see how they could remove them when I have 2 other permits covering them

But this is a mess and frankly ridiculous



Actually, I have a shotgun at the cabin - forgot about that - do I need a permit in NYS for that

 

[MikeyCNY]

I'm in Oneida County so obviously haven't seen that non-resident form.. sorry I can't be of help but I'd just say eff it and don't recertify. MAYBE keep a cheap pistol AT THE CABIN for protection when you're there but obviously don't advertise it.

 

[Keyzard]

it doesn’t even have a mailbox

But does it have an address? That was the key to our solution. And if required getting an address is pretty easy. In our case we contacted the county fire coordinator and he assigned the address. It only took about 30 days. FWIW, we don't have a mailbox either.

 

[Pissed Off Patriot]

Actually, I have a shotgun at the cabin - forgot about that - do I need a permit in NYS for that

You don't need a permit for it, but as already stated, once you lose your pistol permit, they can take all your long guns in NY.

That's how the Safe Act is written. If you lose your permit for any reason, or no reason at all (because it doesn't specify) they can take your long guns.

 

[zorro]

You don't need a permit for it, but as already stated, once you lose your pistol permit, they can take all your long guns in NY.

That's how the Safe Act is written. If you lose your permit for any reason, or no reason at all (because it doesn't specify) they can take your long guns.

Thanks for that - I presume I can "give" my long gun (shotgun) to my son, who does have a NYS permit

 

[zorro]

But does it have an address? That was the key to our solution. And if required getting an address is pretty easy. In our case we contacted the county fire coordinator and he assigned the address. It only took about 30 days. FWIW, we don't have a mailbox either.

It 100% has an address - evidenced by the taxes i pay each year!!

I dont have a NYS drivers license which is one of the reasons I believe I am classed as an out of state permit holder

 

[Pissed Off Patriot]

Thanks for that - I presume I can "give" my long gun (shotgun) to my son, who does have a NYS permit

There ya go. Just get it out of that cabin, since I assume the cabin is in your name