FL cops burst into wrong apartment killing a US airmen for defending his home

[Truebeliever]

That *is* the rule of engagement for all CCW.

A single standard, that is all I ask. No more, no less.

And doctors do kill people, it's an unavoidable consequence of any job where you must make life or death judgements. But doctors do not expect to do it without consequences. That is why they carry millions of dollars of malpractice insurance.

They manage to do their job without a special exemption giving them immunity.

There are many other professions that risk their lives more than cops, that make split second life or death decisions more than cops. But only cops (and government in general) thinks they should be exempt from the consequences of bad judgment.

You do not know what qualified immunity is . Cops get sued all the time. And doctors do have a type of qualified immunity. You just can’t sue a doctor because they missed a diagnosis
“Not every diagnostic error is malpractice”

Can You Prove the Doctor Was Negligent?​

There's almost no such thing as a simple misdiagnosis malpractice case. Even when the doctor's error seems obvious, you still might need expert witnesses to prove your case. In any medical malpractice lawsuit, you can expect the doctor to vigorously fight your negligence claims.”

Medical Malpractice: Misdiagnosis and Delayed Diagnosis

The wrong or late diagnosis can lead to a medical malpractice lawsuit. Learn when you can sue a doctor for a medical misdiagnosis and how to win your case.

www.nolo.com

You basically need other doctors to declare it malpractice to make it to trial.

There is a different standard for police/peace officers . Deal with it . Not only can police officers stand their ground but can be the aggressor. That is the nature of the job. To confront people .

 

[Truebeliever]

Yea, dude was sitting home minding his business.

Another dude injected himself into that situation and killed the first guy.

That makes the second guy the bad guy.

If the cop had knocked on the door with his gun still in the holster, everyone would still be alive.

Unless the call was for a violent crime in progress, then the cop should not have had a drawn weapon.

And honestly, cops do not generally stop crimes in progress, it's such a rare event that they shouldn't even attempt it anymore. They cause way more problems than they solve.

If you think the situation is so risky you need to stand outside a door with a drawn gun, then you shouldn't be going in without a swat team.

The cop did not have his gun drawn when he knocked on the door nor when the door opened . He drew and fired when the threat was presented — he saw the gun in the man’s hand when he stepped from behind the door with it

 

[Truebeliever]

Just to add. An Ohio cop was just “ambushed “ and killed on a similar call

 

[spat]

The cop did not have his gun drawn when he knocked on the door nor when the door opened . He drew and fired when the threat was presented — he saw the gun in the man’s hand when he stepped from behind the door with it

Then the cop is an idiot.

Never draw on a drawn gun. If the homeowner was a danger, then the cop would be dead.

The homeowner should have shot the cop when he first reached for the gun, he'd be in a lot less trouble than he is now.

The fact that he didn't proves nobody was in danger until the cop drew.

 

[spat]

You do not know what qualified immunity is . Cops get sued all the time. And doctors do have a type of qualified immunity. You just can’t sue a doctor because they missed a diagnosis
“Not every diagnostic error is malpractice”

Can You Prove the Doctor Was Negligent?​

There's almost no such thing as a simple misdiagnosis malpractice case. Even when the doctor's error seems obvious, you still might need expert witnesses to prove your case. In any medical malpractice lawsuit, you can expect the doctor to vigorously fight your negligence claims.”

Medical Malpractice: Misdiagnosis and Delayed Diagnosis

The wrong or late diagnosis can lead to a medical malpractice lawsuit. Learn when you can sue a doctor for a medical misdiagnosis and how to win your case.

www.nolo.com

You basically need other doctors to declare it malpractice to make it to trial.

There is a different standard for police/peace officers . Deal with it . Not only can police officers stand their ground but can be the aggressor. That is the nature of the job. To confront people .

No,a misdiagnosis isn't malpractice unless it was done so badly it rises to the level of negligence.

You can't have it both ways though. Either qualified immunity is useless, so we should get rid of it, or it's protecting bad cops from their actions.

Which is it ?

But, doctors *do* need to carry insurance for it, and cops don't. Why is that ?

 

[spat]

There is a different standard for police/peace officers . Deal with it . Not only can police officers stand their ground but can be the aggressor. That is the nature of the job. To confront people .

I think the best way to "deal with it" is to eliminate it.

Dual standards is an affront to everything decent.

And, we really need to reform any institution who thinks "to confront people" who have not committed any crime is part of the job.

 

[GOPerfect]

Cops get sued all the time for right or wrong . You have little or not proper knowledge on what qualified immunity is.
And if one did what doctors do all the time , they would be up for involuntary manslaughter or worse. Did the doctor who cut off the wrong leg get criminally charged ? How many doctors are sued for what a different doctor did. Cops are sued all the time for the actions of a different cop.

spilt second life and death decisions where the decision maker’s and/or other lives are on the line , with very little mental preparation before hand , who but the military has that ? And the military generally has time to prep for such decisions. To decide to kill to save other lives.

Go ask some cops who were both combat veterans and cops ( real cops and not a hospital security guard with a badge) which was harder. I have . Out of the 17 cops who were combat veterans which was harder . Only one said his combat time was harder . Why, I asked . There was a sense of clarity and less bs.

I decided to unblock due to this comment. I think this may be the 3rd or 4th time you have used the term Real cops. What exactly does this mean?

As for these combat vets that you spoke of, I would love to know what they think combat is. I do not know any Vets that were in actual combat that would think being a beat cop is tougher. I know 100's of actual combat Veterans that are also officers on one department or another, I do not think any would say that combat is easier than being a beat cop.

In regards to the Military, military operations and actual combat, you are completely clueless and your comments show that.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Just to add. An Ohio cop was just “ambushed “ and killed on a similar call

And that sucks.

Do you know what sucks more? A homeowner being murdered at his door.

The cop in Ohio was accepted a job knowing there are risks and he decided the compensation was worth it. It's a decision. The outcome is unfortunate and we can discuss any multitude of cultural failings that led to that occurring.

But the mentality that the guy in Florida being murdered on his front door deserved it or it's his fault is laughable.

I'll say it again, being a cop is a hard job. But you choose to accept it knowing there are risks. As a cop you have to be able to respect and acknowledge that citizens can lawfully have and possess guns and that you cannot harm them because you felt uncomfortable when they did not make any threats to you.

 

[GOPerfect]

And that sucks.

Do you know what sucks more? A homeowner being murdered at his door.

The cop in Ohio was accepted a job knowing there are risks and he decided the compensation was worth it. It's a decision. The outcome is unfortunate and we can discuss any multitude of cultural failings that led to that occurring.

But the mentality that the guy in Florida being murdered on his front door deserved it or it's his fault is laughable.

I'll say it again, being a cop is a hard job. But you choose to accept it knowing there are risks. As a cop you have to be able to respect and acknowledge that citizens can lawfully have and possess guns and that you cannot harm them because you felt uncomfortable when they did not make any threats to you.

It is much easier for some of them to ignore their Oaths and violate the US Constitution.

 

[GOPerfect]

Interesting read...

KNIBBS v. MOMPHARD (2022) United States Court of Appeals, Fourth Circuit.

 

[GOPerfect]

This is a great tweet to read through...

 

[TEOTWAWKI inc.]

Just to add. An Ohio cop was just “ambushed “ and killed on a similar call

What made it an "ambush"? The "suspect" got a shot off first?

 

[Bigfoot]

 

[Truebeliever]

What made it an "ambush"? The "suspect" got a shot off first?

Still waiting for details . What is reported is

Ohio police officer shot and killed after being ambushed by gunman, authorities say

A suspect accused of fatally shooting a 23-year-old police officer in Euclid, Ohio, on Saturday night is dead, police said Sunday.

www.cbsnews.com

The shooting unfolded when the officer responded to a disturbance call, officials said.

An Ohio police officer investigating a call of a disturbance at a home was fatally shot Saturday night in what authorities described as an "ambush."

abcnews.go.com

 

[Acer-m14]

i have seen some bits on social media that this cop that shot the Airman is the same cop that shot up the police car from the ACORN that fell

on the cars roof ..

only thing i can confirm is both shooting are from the same FL Sherriff's Dept

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

i have seen some bits on social media that this cop that shot the Airman is the same cop that shot up the police car from the ACORN that fell

on the cars roof ..

only thing i can confirm is both shooting are from the same FL Sherriff's Dept

Amazingly both incidents occurred with the Okaloosa sheriffs. I believe the acorn cops were already fired or resigned months ago but I could be mistaken.

Clearly this department has some poor hiring and training standards if their deputies are so quick to shoot there are likely systemic failures.

 

[FrankenCub]

This is a great tweet to read through...

Love the Community Notes used now. Talk shit and get called out quick.

 

[FrankenCub]

Still waiting for details . What is reported is

Ohio police officer shot and killed after being ambushed by gunman, authorities say

A suspect accused of fatally shooting a 23-year-old police officer in Euclid, Ohio, on Saturday night is dead, police said Sunday.

www.cbsnews.com

The shooting unfolded when the officer responded to a disturbance call, officials said.

An Ohio police officer investigating a call of a disturbance at a home was fatally shot Saturday night in what authorities described as an "ambush."

abcnews.go.com

Generally an ambush, you know your target is coming while you are in a hidden location.
VS....
Dude answered his door

Big difference

 

[Truebeliever]

Generally an ambush, you know your target is coming while you are in a hidden location.
VS....
Dude answered his door

Big difference

Not to the person who is being ambushed.
In any shooting , it is from the point of view of the shooter that it is weighed for a self defense claim. Is it reasonable that the cop thought it was an ambush. Planned or impromptu . Hell, yes is the answer.

And it works both ways. If the police execute a search warrant and the person reasonably doesn’t know it’s the police and defends their home , they will beat the case . It’s from the point of view of the shooter.

 

[Modean]

It's reasonable to consider a gun being pointed at you, or even being in motion to do so to be an imminent threat. It's not reasonable to consider a gun that is merely present to be an imminent threat. Don't quote "the book", as I don't care, your book is trash.

 

[spat]

This is a great tweet to read through...

Roger Fortson is dead today because *he* hesitated.

The minute the cop reached for his gun, he should have done the same thing a cop would have done when someone reaches for a gum.

Now, Roger would undoubtedly be in jail today, but jail beats the morgue.

 

[spat]

Amazingly both incidents occurred with the Okaloosa sheriffs. I believe the acorn cops were already fired or resigned months ago but I could be mistaken.

Clearly this department has some poor hiring and training standards if their deputies are so quick to shoot there are likely systemic failures.

They probably have that culture some here espouse where their job is the most dangerous thing in the world and they should have Carte Blanche to do anything they want for "officer safety".

They'll go over that incident of the cop getting ambushed over and over in the break room and hype it up worse than covid. They will not even mention the fact that it happens a lot more often to pizza delivery guys, and their job is not really all that dangerous.

 

[Saltwater60]

I was watching Texas animal cops last night and a guy came out of his house with a pistol in his hand because the cop wanted it. The cop didn’t have his gun drawn and he said is that the gun in your hand? Perp said yes and cop said don’t point it at me and never even put his hand on his gun. Kid was like 18 and did something stupid that he received a citation for.

 

[Truebeliever]

Roger Fortson is dead today because *he* hesitated.

The minute the cop reached for his gun, he should have done the same thing a cop would have done when someone reaches for a gum.

Now, Roger would undoubtedly be in jail today, but jail beats the morgue.

And he would be going up for life . Do not follow this guy’s advice .

 

[Truebeliever]

I was watching Texas animal cops last night and a guy came out of his house with a pistol in his hand because the cop wanted it. The cop didn’t have his gun drawn and he said is that the gun in your hand? Perp said yes and cop said don’t point it at me and never even put his hand on his gun. Kid was like 18 and did something stupid that he received a citation for.

Did the officer know what was going on before the kid came up with the gun? The cop told him to get it right ?
How did he carry it ? Not the same way I bet .
Completely different circumstances.

 

[Truebeliever]

They probably have that culture some here espouse where their job is the most dangerous thing in the world and they should have Carte Blanche to do anything they want for "officer safety".

They'll go over that incident of the cop getting ambushed over and over in the break room and hype it up worse than covid. They will not even mention the fact that it happens a lot more often to pizza delivery guys, and their job is not really all that dangerous.

Spat, you have no idea what you are talking about .
Go ahead and read those most dangerous job statistics then read more into it . All of law enforcement is grouped together including people who aren’t real cops like security guards but with peace officer status. It’s like saying joining the military is safe

In 2021, the armed forces had 1,323,648 active-duty service members and 1,009 deaths, resulting in a fatality rate of 0.07%. This number is pretty low, even if we compare it to regular jobs like construction, transportation, or manufacturing

What Are the Chances of Dying in the Military?

To many people, enlisting and serving your country is a dangerous job. So, what are the chances of dying in the military?

www.thesoldiersproject.org

It’s not an accurate depiction of the dangers of combat soliders just as the stats most use for police don’t reflect most patrol officers .

 

[spat]

And he would be going up for life . Do not follow this guy’s advice .

Maybe.

But he'd still be better off than what he got.

How about this guy ? Did exactly what he was told. Got shot for it anyway.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/nation-world/national/article288488795.html

 

[spat]

Spat, you have no idea what you are talking about .
Go ahead and read those most dangerous job statistics then read more into it . All of law enforcement is grouped together including people who aren’t real cops like security guards but with peace officer status. It’s like saying joining the military is safe

In 2021, the armed forces had 1,323,648 active-duty service members and 1,009 deaths, resulting in a fatality rate of 0.07%. This number is pretty low, even if we compare it to regular jobs like construction, transportation, or manufacturing

What Are the Chances of Dying in the Military?

To many people, enlisting and serving your country is a dangerous job. So, what are the chances of dying in the military?

www.thesoldiersproject.org

It’s not an accurate depiction of the dangers of combat soliders just as the stats most use for police don’t reflect most patrol officers .

And the stats for pizza delivery guys lump the ones in the suburbs in with the guys delivering to the hood too.

Your argument is unconvincing.

 

[Truebeliever]

Maybe.

But he'd still be better off than what he got.

How about this guy ? Did exactly what he was told. Got shot for it anyway.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/nation-world/national/article288488795.html

“Officers drew their weapons, and they and Wright told Higdon to put the gun down, but the man refused, the lawsuit said.”


“Shooting broke out, then the Wrights ran into their bedroom as officers and the family member exchanged gunfire, Vickie Wright”
The Sevier County District Attorney’s Office investigated the shooting and found the deputy believed Higdon was coming through the door, not David Wright, WATE reported.


Read more at: https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/nation-world/national/article288488795.html#storylink=cpy

Not a good example to cite and it is using info from one side of the issue . It was a gunfight.
Not the same thing . In fact , it hurts your argument that the airman should have shot it out . He might have gotten other people killed like this guy did with his brother in law.

 

[Truebeliever]

And the stats for pizza delivery guys lump the ones in the suburbs in with the guys delivering to the hood too.

Your argument is unconvincing.

Pizza delivery guy is being lumped in with other guys who go out to strangers homes and deliver pizza . The law enforcement statistic is lumping patrol officers with people who never make arrests but happen to have the power to do so on paper , and never have . Big difference. It’s like comparing the physical dangers of the Marines to Space force and saying they are the same .