Good shoot? Manslaughter charges brought in Michigan garage burglary shooting

[holdover]

Now personally I do not think I’d shoot someone for breaking into my car or garage even if legally allowed to. I do not think a piece of property is worth a human life. I value life more than property. I guess the same could be said for homes because the assailant could truly mean you no harm but breaking into a house is very different and the chance of something to go wrong increases exponentially.

I disagree, you may value life more than property ( morally correct) But that doesnt mean the crackhead in your garage does. You have no idea what his intentions are, if he is armed, If he is violent. if there are more than one. You are in a seriously dangerous situation and you dont have a clue to whats happening .

Morally your correct, you dont want to kill a kid for stealing your old broken weed whacker you hate anyway , but you dont want to put yourself in a position to get killed either. He chose to risk his life for a weed whacker, Thats not on you He made that decision, He put himself in harms way He made himself a threat when He entered your garage , It is also reasonable to assume an intruder is armed ,

I myself may cover the most likely entry point to my house and if my doorknob so much as Jiggles Im dropping the guy. Im not taking any chances that 3 MS 13 guys are going to run into my house . As long as you can articulate a threat that a reasonable person can understand Your going to be OK

 

[GOPerfect]

I’d have to look up the law in Michigan to apply it. I don’t really care enough to do that so I will apply NYS’s law and say they were both unoccupied dwellings and he should have stayed inside his home and called police. Shooting anyone breaking into an unoccupied dwelling in NYS is a bad move.
Now personally I do not think I’d shoot someone for breaking into my car or garage even if legally allowed to. I do not think a piece of property is worth a human life. I value life more than property. I guess the same could be said for homes because the assailant could truly mean you no harm but breaking into a house is very different and the chance of something to go wrong increases exponentially.

My spare change, encrusted in cat shit is far important to me than the life of the low-life vermin that decides to steal from me.

All of my stuff is far more valuable than these people.

 

[Saltwater60]

'"dwelling" shall mean any building or structure or portion thereof...'

House itself is clearly a dwelling. An attached garage is certainly a portion thereof of that structure.

You forgot this part. Is a garage occupied?

which is occupied in whole or in part as the home, residence or sleeping place
of one or more human beings and is either rented, leased, let or hired
out, to be occupied, or is occupied as the residence o

 

[Saltwater60]

I disagree, you may value life more than property ( morally correct) But that doesnt mean the crackhead in your garage does. You have no idea what his intentions are, if he is armed, If he is violent. if there are more than one. You are in a seriously dangerous situation and you dont have a clue to whats happening .

Morally your correct, you dont want to kill a kid for stealing your old broken weed whacker you hate anyway , but you dont want to put yourself in a position to get killed either. He chose to risk his life for a weed whacker, Thats not on you He made that decision, He put himself in harms way He made himself a threat when He entered your garage , It is also reasonable to assume an intruder is armed ,

I myself may cover the most likely entry point to my house and if my doorknob so much as Jiggles Im dropping the guy. Im not taking any chances that 3 MS 13 guys are going to run into my house . As long as you can articulate a threat that a reasonable person can understand Your going to be OK

If he stays in the garage and I’m not in there I’m in not much danger. Now try to enter the home and it’s a different story. I would shoot through a door as it’s opening or trying to be opened to my home.

 

[spat]

You forgot this part. Is a garage occupied?

which is occupied in whole or in part as the home, residence or sleeping place
of one or more human beings and is either rented, leased, let or hired
out, to be occupied, or is occupied as the residence o

Right, the structure is occupied in part (the house), but that makes the entire structure a dwelling if even part of it is occupied.

As long as the garage and the house are the same structure it's all one dwelling.

To say otherwise would be to say my kitchen isn't part of the dwelling, because there's a door between it and the bedroom. The only difference between the kitchen and the attached garage is the HVAC.

 

[Bigfoot]

Interesting thread.

 

[GOPerfect]

Interesting thread.

Interesting to see how many people are just weak and soft.

 

[TEOTWAWKI inc.]

Detached garage? What are the laws on chaining the doors and burning the building?

 

[spat]

Detached garage? What are the laws on chaining the doors and burning the building?

Perhaps a citation of the precedent of "shoot, shovel, and shut up" would be in order.

Depending on the jurisdiction, and assuming the "shoot" part is justified, that might not even be technically illegal.

I would not want to have to defend that last point in court though.

 

[Saltwater60]

Maybe

Right, the structure is occupied in part (the house), but that makes the entire structure a dwelling if even part of it is occupied.

As long as the garage and the house are the same structure it's all one dwelling.

To say otherwise would be to say my kitchen isn't part of the dwelling, because there's a door between it and the bedroom. The only difference between the kitchen and the attached garage is the HVAC.

maybe, but maybe not. It will be on you to prove it. I look at it as a garage is not part of the occupied dwelling. Often times things that are not heated are not considered living space. I have a three story home and my third floor is not considered living space for various reasons. They tried to add it to my assessment but I fought it and won. I wouldn’t put it past NYS to do something like this.

 

[Saltwater60]

My spare change, encrusted in cat shit is far important to me than the life of the low-life vermin that decides to steal from me.

All of my stuff is far more valuable than these people.

That’s fine and your opinion. I’m not willing to shoot a 16 year old kid that might have gotten wrapped up into something stupid with his friends for breaking into a garage. Now if it’s my home that’s a different story. If I was judged for what I did when I was 16 then many would think I was a POS.

 

[Saltwater60]

Interesting to see how many people are just weak and soft.

Not sure I’d look at it this way. Not sure it’s wise to shoot through a door and at fleeing suspects after maybe stealing things from their garage. Sounds like he was a bit reckless to me. They are on foot how much can they take?
I get if your life or others are in danger or coming in your occupied dwelling. Now if it’s a world ending situation and I need those things to survive it’s a different story but to kill a kid for stealing a few tools I use once or twice a year meh, not worth it. There’s nothing in my garage too valuable and would likely cost me way more in attorneys fees than it is to replace those things. To me it’s a smart strategic move in NYS because you’d 100% be charged in this state.

 

[GOPerfect]

That’s fine and your opinion. I’m not willing to shoot a 16 year old kid that might have gotten wrapped up into something stupid with his friends for breaking into a garage. Now if it’s my home that’s a different story. If I was judged for what I did when I was 16 then many would think I was a POS.

Cool, I know I would have no reservations about taking any trash out that decides his life is worth less than my junk.

 

[GOPerfect]

Not sure I’d look at it this way. Not sure it’s wise to shoot through a door and at fleeing suspects after maybe stealing things from their garage. Sounds like he was a bit reckless to me. They are on foot how much can they take?
I get if your life or others are in danger or coming in your occupied dwelling. Now if it’s a world ending situation and I need those things to survive it’s a different story but to kill a kid for stealing a few tools I use once or twice a year meh, not worth it. There’s nothing in my garage too valuable and would likely cost me way more in attorneys fees than it is to replace those things. To me it’s a smart strategic move in NYS because you’d 100% be charged in this state.

A wrench, he could have stolen a wrench. That wrench is mine, not his. Maybe he decided the wrench was worth more than his life.

 

[spat]

Maybe

maybe, but maybe not. It will be on you to prove it. I look at it as a garage is not part of the occupied dwelling. Often times things that are not heated are not considered living space. I have a three story home and my third floor is not considered living space for various reasons. They tried to add it to my assessment but I fought it and won. I wouldn’t put it past NYS to do something like this.

It's NY, they can make whatever ridiculous rulings they want and get away with it. I could see a dipshit prosecutor arguing the bathroom isn't part of the dwelling because there's a door between that and the bed.

But the plain language of the statute says the entire structure is a dwelling if any part of the structure is commonly used for sleeping. A garage that shares a wall with the house is obviously part of the same structure, since neither part could stand alone if the other was removed.

 

[C3D]

My spare change, encrusted in cat shit is far important to me than the life of the low-life vermin that decides to steal from me.

All of my stuff is far more valuable than these people.

If you want to talk economics, is spare change and encrusted cat shit worth $50,000?

Because that will be the least possible amount you will need to pay in legal fees even if you are not criminally charged. Investigation, grand jury, and civil suit by the perp's family.

 

[Brawny71]

Not sure a single “shot through a closed door” example have ended well for any shooter recently in any state; I’m aware of three that made the news.

The discussion WAS going real well.

 

[spat]

Not sure a single “shot through a closed door” example have ended well for any shooter recently in any state; I’m aware of three that made the news.

The discussion WAS going real well.

Shooting blind is never a good plan, for a lot of reasons.

It wouldn't become a good plan in the absence of legal consequences either.