We need a new doom and gloom thread. It has been a while.

[Cooolone]

What are thoughts on living somewhere in the Midwest / plains like iowa, Missouri, Nebraska or kansas as an example...

I have been thinking that this region is probably a pretty stable and safe place to be.

Thoughts?

Probably... But there's some assumptions there. Will YOU be an outsider, not accepting into the community so to say? Sometimes it could be a generation to be accepted as a "Regular"... Assumption then also that the community would share and be their brothers keepers upon an calamity event.

That's the cynic in me thinking, lol

We have seen exhibited exactly what your imagine. Especially with those ranchers some years back. Very effective community action and resistance to an organized effort (Govt) to penetrate and overcome that same community. Agree or not with what was going on, it was a telling moment which invoked deep pride in the core exhibition of what an American really is as we are borne from rebellion. Anyways...

Yes, with planning, some advance scouting in regard to particular locations, etc. It certainly can be a great move if all your boxes are checked!

 

[Robin]

If my property is the northern boundary for that square mile, there are probably less than twenty people, and the next mile south too, and I'm not too far, relatively, from a population center. Its' mostly woods, way more cows than people.
I'm not concerned in the least.
Robin

 

[technicalgadget]

I've often thought that would be a good place to be. You are literally surrounded by lots of agriculture and few people. And the people who are there, are likely farmers, homestead, country people who are not really a threat. I would imagine those types of people would productively band together for support and mutual assistance.

Everything is all honky dory until they they decide to band together for support and mutual assistance against you. They took that little property dispute 5 years ago about the fence to a whole 'nother level.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Everything is all honky dory until they they decide to band together for support and mutual assistance against you. They took that little property dispute 5 years ago about the fence to a whole 'nother level.

Is that something that happened to you first hand?


Let's face it, you can have asshole neighbors who band together against you anywhere.

I think you can try to actively choose to surround yourself by those who are predisposed to seeing the world as you do and will behave how you will behave. Look for areas to move to that have similar interests and things in common with politically, religiously, demographically,. economically, crime rates, etc.

 

[Saltwater60]

What are thoughts on living somewhere in the Midwest / plains like iowa, Missouri, Nebraska or kansas as an example that are very agriculture heavy and many counties have a population density of 0-20 people per square mile.

I've often thought that would be a good place to be. You are literally surrounded by lots of agriculture and few people. And the people who are there, are likely farmers, homestead, country people who are not really a threat. I would imagine those types of people would productively band together for support and mutual assistance.

I have been thinking that this region is probably a pretty stable and safe place to be.

It's probably a boring place to live, but that's kinda the point.

Thoughts? Experiences?

This makes sense but keep in mind out there they farm specific things and it’s usually grains. You don’t see too many fruits or veggies. Not that wheat wouldn’t be helpful, but remember without their planters, sprayers, and harvesters these days many can’t farm.

 

[TEOTWAWKI inc.]

This makes sense but keep in mind out there they farm specific things and it’s usually grains. You don’t see too many fruits or veggies. Not that wheat wouldn’t be helpful, but remember without their planters, sprayers, and harvesters these days many can’t farm.

Population density...

 

[TEOTWAWKI inc.]

I don't know how long I'd survive, but I'd love to try it.

 

[GOPerfect]

I don't know how long I'd survive, but I'd love to try it.

I was part of a discussion a few weeks back, basically on this subject.

We were talking about our individual chances of surviving different scenarios.

Most that we came up with, I gave myself pretty good chances of long term survival.

 

[TEOTWAWKI inc.]

I was part of a discussion a few weeks back, basically on this subject.

We were talking about our individual chances of surviving different scenarios.

Most that we came up with, I gave myself pretty good chances of long term survival.

I'd get board after a while. The onset would be fucking wild though. I'm not a bad ass by any stretch of the imagination, but I believe I'm capable of horrible things. Initially, that would be the hardest part for a lot of people.

 

[GOPerfect]

I'd get board after a while. The onset would be fucking wild though. I'm not a bad ass by any stretch of the imagination, but I believe I'm capable of horrible things. Initially, that would be the hardest part for a lot of people.

The ability to crush others without mercy would destroy the mindset of many.

There are many people out there that say they can kill, destroy and inflict massive woe on others, until much of this is done, people have no idea what they will be able to do and what they will not capable of.

 

[Old Jalopy]

There would be a lot of rude awakenings. All the people who think they will hop in the car with a BOB and run to the hills are going to be pretty shocked when that fantasy gets shattered by criminals placing road blocks to loot and worse. If you're in a city, odds are, you aren't going anywhere. Or, they get to that super secret spot and see 500 other people figured it would be a good spot too.

No power, no nothing. Can't even pay with cash as registers will all be down, and, it seems these days, no one can count to offer change anyway. Solar to charge comms. Solar to keep the house running if you're in the country.

Most of us will not fare well in the long term. You can have 20,000,000 rounds of ammo and 1000 guns, but when a gang of 30-40 looters come knocking loaded to the gills themselves most won't last long in that situation. Look at Mexico as a perfect example, the criminals are more organized than the military and law enforcement.

Think about how many terrorists and criminals were let in this country in 4 years of Biden, and then quadruple (or more) it to add the ones who were already here in sleeper cells or other.

 

[Robin]

" no one can count to offer change anyway"
Good point!
Robin

 

[Nebowictz]

All the people who think they will hop in the car with a BOB

I believe those people are called “loot drops”

 

[Criticalt]

60mb is fast enough for most people, despite the marketing folks trying to convince everyone they need gigabit or better.

If you've got 60mb and it's reliable and it's reasonably priced, then keep it.

We're on 100MB fixed wireless from our primary provider (fixed wireless looks like satellite, but the dish is pointed at a tower across the valley).

They're pretty reliable and $100/mo. But their equipment is on the same tower as the cell serivces across the valley, so when it does go down, we usually lose phone service as well (whole tower is down).

We work from home so we got the Starlink for a backup. Doesn't matter what the fiber seeking backhoe the construction guys are running does, Starlink works if all the infrastructure within 100 miles is wiped out.

It's tempting to just ditch the current provider all together and go exclusively Starlink, but that wouldn't be as reliable as having both. And the other provider doesn't have a $5/month standby plan.

Another reason we might keep the line is that when everything is down....electricity, internet...our 1970s rotary phone still works. Im not sure how satellite works if power is out. Unless the line falls, the 70s tech keeps working.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Another reason we might keep the line is that when everything is down....electricity, internet...our 1970s rotary phone still works. Im not sure how satellite works if power is out. Unless the line falls, the 70s tech keeps working.

The old copper lines pretty much work forever

 

[Criticalt]

What are thoughts on living somewhere in the Midwest / plains like iowa, Missouri, Nebraska or kansas as an example that are very agriculture heavy and many counties have a population density of 0-20 people per square mile.

I've often thought that would be a good place to be. You are literally surrounded by lots of agriculture and few people. And the people who are there, are likely farmers, homestead, country people who are not really a threat. I would imagine those types of people would productively band together for support and mutual assistance.

I have been thinking that this region is probably a pretty stable and safe place to be.

It's probably a boring place to live, but that's kinda the point.

Thoughts? Experiences?

On a much smaller scale, that's CLOSE to what we have here in WNY. All my neighbors have the same mindset as me. Our closest neighbors just moved in last year. He is the son of the elderly couple who lived there for decades. Its him, his wife, and 2 daughters. I dont know them well, but they hate NYS government, voted for Trump, have horses and big dogs, hes an Army combat veteran, and he has many guns.....and he drives a snowplow for the county. What more do I need to know?
Most of our other neighbors are Amish. Many tough young men who all have guns. And, they are all very neighborly. We haven't talked about it, but I know if I hear them being attacked, im loading up and heading over.
In a serious SHTF thing, we have a few competent friends who will make our homestead their place of retreat. That will add 2 more guys with guns....one of which is truly a scary badass.....possibly to the point of mental.

 

[spat]

Another reason we might keep the line is that when everything is down....electricity, internet...our 1970s rotary phone still works. Im not sure how satellite works if power is out. Unless the line falls, the 70s tech keeps working.

Starlink can run off a USB battery pack. People literally use them camping that way.

 

[TEOTWAWKI inc.]

I just learned a valuable lesson and it will be partially corrected before I sleep tonight. Thought something was happening that may or may not be better approached with more than my EDC. My gun stuff has become what I would guess it's like for a woman shopping for a full matching outfit in the tj Maxx clearance racks on markdown day. I haven't even thrown the P365 I just got in there yet.

And, I should buy more guns.

 

[Tisto]

What are thoughts on living somewhere in the Midwest / plains like iowa, Missouri, Nebraska or kansas as an example that are very agriculture heavy and many counties have a population density of 0-20 people per square mile.

I've often thought that would be a good place to be. You are literally surrounded by lots of agriculture and few people. And the people who are there, are likely farmers, homestead, country people who are not really a threat. I would imagine those types of people would productively band together for support and mutual assistance.

I have been thinking that this region is probably a pretty stable and safe place to be.

It's probably a boring place to live, but that's kinda the point.

Thoughts? Experiences?

Being in the middle of nowhere is great...sort-of. Being able to see trouble heading towards you a solid ten minutes before it actually gets there is a huge bonus. The problem is, you don't have the numbers required to defend your area from any threat of appreciable size. At that point, going underground and waiting for the threat to pass takes over. Out there, neighbors ARE your best and only unified defense. You defend them, they defend you. Outsiders are the enemy. Still, if there are only a couple hundred in the county, it won't take long for a busload of reasonably well armed people that have no restraints to conquer whatever they desire.

There is no perfect or completely safe location. You have to do your best with the people and skills available.

 

[GOPerfect]

Being in the middle of nowhere is great...sort-of. Being able to see trouble heading towards you a solid ten minutes before it actually gets there is a huge bonus. The problem is, you don't have the numbers required to defend your area from any threat of appreciable size. At that point, going underground and waiting for the threat to pass takes over. Out there, neighbors ARE your best and only unified defense. You defend them, they defend you. Outsiders are the enemy. Still, if there are only a couple hundred in the county, it won't take long for a busload of reasonably well armed people that have no restraints to conquer whatever they desire.

There is no perfect or completely safe location. You have to do your best with the people and skills available.

Where I am located, it would be very, very to block all road access in and out of our community.

I was not thinking about this when we first moved here; after being here for a while, I realized how easy full blockade could be.

 

[Tisto]

Where I am located, it would be very, very to block all road access in and out of our community.

I was not thinking about this when we first moved here; after being here for a while, I realized how easy full blockade could be.

If you can block them from coming in, they can keep you from coming out !

 

[GOPerfect]

If you can block them from coming in, they can keep you from coming out !

Not exactly. The way the land is, there are ways in and out if allowed by the residents. I wish I could explain this better.

 

[Tisto]

There is a very good reason that high ground with steep terrain, sheer drops, deep and/or swift water is strategically used as defensable locations on which to build a fortress.

 

[Tisto]

Not exactly. The way the land is, there are ways in and out if allowed by the residents. I wish I could explain this better.

All I'm saying is to consider that traps can be used against you. Consider the other side of everything.

 

[spat]

There is a very good reason that high ground with steep terrain, sheer drops, deep and/or swift water is strategically used as defensable locations on which to build a fortress.

You just described my front yard LOL. That's the driveway on the right.

 

[fresch]

I would not worry.
First city people are... City people so most will die. That will take time, gangs will form up but fight each other and die. When they get out to we the people in the sticks , the sticks will have gone through the same crap and ready for the city gangs to come get some where they will, die trying. Just go down shooting, what's considered a good ratio 30 before I'm out. Who wants to live forever? (high lander)

 

[livingston]

Folks years ago I talked to a person from Nigeria ... He said it would take all day to travel 100-150 miles... Every 15 miles or so ... every vehicle would stop at a road block. 15-20 people would stop you and demand they search your car or truck for anything illegal . You would unload everything on the side of the road. Then they would demand something from you. .... Could be simple as a cheap watch. ... This is a poor country. A lot of poor people. They would take that watch and trade it for supper or a place to sleep. You would load up your car and drive 10-15 miles and hit another roadblock... One could unload your car 10 times in that 150 miles. These folks don't harm you... Just shake you down for something small . Makes it difficult to do business in that country.

 

[livingston]

Folks .... Some of my thoughts.
Tremendous amount of people are on medications of some sort. . Myself I am on prescription anti inflammatory .. I had an operation last year and I had to not take it for a week prior... I could hardly stand up from a chair. .... Knees were killing me. I could hardly stand . Right now I cannot ruck even 10 miles in a day. My wife is in dire need of replacement herself. and is in worse shape. .. Do you leave your spouse behind ???
The time of year had a lot to do with survival. ... Go on you tube and type in Ice storm. .. Folks are going ... we lost all our food... One is in an Ice storm.. One cannot find a way to keep food cold ?
Folks were using their cars to charge their phones. ... In a short time you are out of gas.
Do people stockpile food . Not really. Water ? How about using a toilet ... Skills are lacking folks. How many people can survive a week of - 10 degree temps. What about winter clothes. How many folks can be outside all day in that - 10 temp. ... Death is very real for most people.

 

[spat]

Folks years ago I talked to a person from Nigeria ... He said it would take all day to travel 100-150 miles... Every 15 miles or so ... every vehicle would stop at a road block. 15-20 people would stop you and demand they search your car or truck for anything illegal . You would unload everything on the side of the road. Then they would demand something from you. .... Could be simple as a cheap watch. ... This is a poor country. A lot of poor people. They would take that watch and trade it for supper or a place to sleep. You would load up your car and drive 10-15 miles and hit another roadblock... One could unload your car 10 times in that 150 miles. These folks don't harm you... Just shake you down for something small . Makes it difficult to do business in that country.

Decent people would get together and just kill everyone manning the first roadblock, then disappear back to their village. No witnesses no survivors.

A few weeks later, do it again.

Pretty soon, no more roadblocks.

 

[fresch]

In a true shtf, organization would be key to survival; very much like the founding fathers, Plymouth Rock people, post revaluation, post civil war, so it's been there done that many times. Look at Africa some live it every day.