Bad shoot in Indiana has lessons for you here in NYS

[C3D]

Watching a criminal skulking around your property, trying to break into your cars and your home, then stepping out the door to confront = bad shoot. It's even more true in NY than Indiana.

Self-Defense or Reckless Homicide? Indiana Homeowner Arrested After Shooting Alleged Felon

In my torts class, we just discussed the privilege of self-defense, the Castle Doctrine, and statutory Stand Your Ground laws. There is a new case out of Indiana where Martell Pickens, 30, is facin…

jonathanturley.org

 

[tirwin1]

Except that it's not always true. Back in 2009 Roderick Scott of hilton woke up around 2:45 am to the sound of teens in the neighborhood. He went outside and shot one of them when he claimed the unarmed teen charged him. He was tried but acquitted, an outcome I had no problem with.

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/local/communities/blogs/rochester/2009/12/19/roderick-scott-acquitted-the-culture-of-fear-and-violence/2284545/?gnt-cfr=1&gca-cat=p&gca-uir=true&gca-epti=z114303e1140xxv114303d--48--b--48--&gca-ft=96&gca-ds=sophi

 

[Grimscale]

The idea that you have to wait until a criminal gains access to your domicile before you can confront them and prevent whatever crime they were thinking of is just more evidence that our .gov WANTS us to be victims.
Once a criminal crosses onto your property it should be your RIGHT to make sure they do not complete whatever nefarious scheme they are perpetrating.
(note: that also includes bad actors from within the .gov itself)

 

[dwa12479]

Except that it's not always true. Back in 2009 Roderick Scott of hilton woke up around 2:45 am to the sound of teens in the neighborhood. He went outside and shot one of them when he claimed the unarmed teen charged him. He was tried but acquitted, an outcome I had no problem with.

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/local/communities/blogs/rochester/2009/12/19/roderick-scott-acquitted-the-culture-of-fear-and-violence/2284545/?gnt-cfr=1&gca-cat=p&gca-uir=true&gca-epti=z114303e1140xxv114303d--48--b--48--&gca-ft=96&gca-ds=sophi

Being acquitted doesnt make it a "good" shoot. I remeber following that case very closely.

 

[fresch]

So bank robbery should be ok too.
Since most pay taxes, we should be ok with jumping in a police car and driving around.
Food is a vital need so should be free.
Etc.
Etc.
I guess those old guys spent all that time and lives fighting for a free "world" was a waste due to the schools putting Retards out and calling them graduates. With zero reading comprehension. Not to be infringed, meaning, pass laws against.

 

[GOPerfect]

So much in all of this.

The Victim's Actions: Roughly 20 minutes prior to the shooting, police stopped Taylor for a traffic violation, towed his vehicle for driving on a suspended license, and instructed him to walk home. Authorities noted signs that Taylor may have been impaired. He began wandering through the neighborhood, reportedly attempting to access parked vehicles and at least one home.

As for the homeowner, he is getting jammed up for one reason and one reason only; he spoke with the police. He did not think of his words first. He did not request and attorney.

Could have said he was in his yard doing yard work and the bullshit claims that the prosecutors are dumping would be moot.

 

[fresch]

"Authorities noted signs that Taylor may have been impaired. He began wandering through the neighborhood, reportedly attempting to access parked vehicles and at least one home."
so he was on our radar.
" he was foaming at the mouth trying to bite people, so we went for doughnuts ".

 

[Zerex]

Shooting an unarmed burglar inside your home, will likely get you seriously investigated.
A Civil Suit for wrongfull death, by dead burglar's family, is assured.

Homeowners Ins will be cancelled, credit will go to hell, temp loss of all firearms.

Use good door locks and camera systems..................shout that you will shoot, in eubonics

 

[Cooolone]

Lol... Yeah, liberal progressive bastions take away law abiding citizens rights and protect those criminal miscreants beyond rational or morally acceptable levels.

But you have EVERY RIGHT to exit your home and investigate a trespass upon YOUR PROPERTY! You have EVERY RIGHT to trespass that person by informing them to leave. You have a RIGHT TO BE WHERE YOU ARE and are not an aggressor because you approached a person who is then illegally ignoring your instruction to leave.

IF that person becomes an aggressor by attacking you, appearing irrational and a threat to your well being, or you fear for your life, you have EVERY RIGHT to defend yourself!

The RIGHT TO DEFENSE has been codified by the SCOTUS, this has nothing to do with any stand your ground or other bullshit! Bottom line is YOU have a right to be where you are, and THEY don't. Once you inform them of this, they're criminally trespassing! Period!

Fucking bullshit and nonsense about having to retreat is just that ... Bullshit!

Different States and municipalities though can and will make your life a hell of you should ever decide to exercise your RIGHTS. Just make sure you sue them for malicious prosecution when you clear everything up!

 

[RedBreast21]

Has to be a clear threat IMHO. Some will read article 35 and think they can call anything a threat to engage anything at any distance on their property and others will look at it and ask what will the courts perceive as a threat. This is the better choice.

"On April 15, 2023, 20-year-old Kaylin Gillis was murdered in Hebron, New York, after the car she was traveling in turned into the wrong driveway. The shooter, Kevin D. Monahan, was arrested after a standoff and taken into custody."

I bet he believed anyone setting foot on the property to be a threat. Common sense says otherwise. Yes the extreme situation for the point. You don't have a duty to retreat inside you home, garage not included. But if no phone call to 911 as you observe them on your property before entry is made and they gained entry, that's a problem. Your choice if you want to run the risk for the good shoot. But don't be that guy blazing guns at a fleeing car like that idiot.

 

[Cooolone]

Talking about duty to retreat and then blazing guns at a car... Come on!

Such hyperbole!

And yeah, your garage counts too, same as your property outside your home.

If there's only one side of the argument, and it's your story to tell, it would be hard, other than holes in someone's back, that there's an issue. That and a hundred phones recoding video too.

You're on my property, been outside and I direct you to leave, you don't, then you approach me in a menacing manner, threateningly, or even with clear intent, are you proposing I'm supposed to WAIT and actually see what act or action you take first? That defense is only in response to an act? I need to get stabbed or shot first to defend myself?

Nah...

I'll take my chances with 12...

 

[spat]

Shooting an unarmed burglar inside your home, will likely get you seriously investigated.
A Civil Suit for wrongfull death, by dead burglar's family, is assured.

Homeowners Ins will be cancelled, credit will go to hell, temp loss of all firearms.

Use good door locks and camera systems..................shout that you will shoot, in eubonics

You really live in a very shitty part of the country don't you.

 

[spat]

Talking about duty to retreat and then blazing guns at a car... Come on!

Such hyperbole!

And yeah, your garage counts too, same as your property outside your home.

If there's only one side of the argument, and it's your story to tell, it would be hard, other than holes in someone's back, that there's an issue. That and a hundred phones recoding video too.

You're on my property, been outside and I direct you to leave, you don't, then you approach me in a menacing manner, threateningly, or even with clear intent, are you proposing I'm supposed to WAIT and actually see what act or action you take first? That defense is only in response to an act? I need to get stabbed or shot first to defend myself?

Nah...

I'll take my chances with 12...

Not even your story if you're smart.

The story your lawyer brings up.

You won't have to testify, so you don't have to actually justify anything. Your lawyer just needs to make a scenario that's consistent with the facts and which is justified.

"Would it have been possible for my client to have believed that he was armed based on the low light and shadows ?"

 

[fresch]

I was in fear for my life, I need a lawyer. Thank you.

 

[Bigfoot]

I was in fear for my life, I need a lawyer. Thank you.

That right there deserves to be quoted and repeated.

 

[GOPerfect]

Has to be a clear threat IMHO. Some will read article 35 and think they can call anything a threat to engage anything at any distance on their property and others will look at it and ask what will the courts perceive as a threat. This is the better choice.

"On April 15, 2023, 20-year-old Kaylin Gillis was murdered in Hebron, New York, after the car she was traveling in turned into the wrong driveway. The shooter, Kevin D. Monahan, was arrested after a standoff and taken into custody."

I bet he believed anyone setting foot on the property to be a threat. Common sense says otherwise. Yes the extreme situation for the point. You don't have a duty to retreat inside you home, garage not included. But if no phone call to 911 as you observe them on your property before entry is made and they gained entry, that's a problem. Your choice if you want to run the risk for the good shoot. But don't be that guy blazing guns at a fleeing car like that idiot.

That incident in Hebron, if that happened in Tennessee, there would be no charges. Interesting the differences in laws, from State to State

 

[GOPerfect]

I was in fear for my life, I need a lawyer. Thank you.

One better, "I am willing to speak to the Police, not until I speak with my lawyer".

Admitting anything, to include having fear is offering the police too much information.

 

[Brawny71]

The words you say and are recorded on 911 are very important. What drives you actions also.

Justification to display and use force: Fear or impression you or someone else is in danger of serious injury or death.

Property and “stuff” can be replaced. A life “even a scumbag” cannot. Self defense does not apply to your stuff UNLESS it is combined with a reasonable threat. The shooter COULD have stayed in his locked house, videoed/ photoed the scumbag while calling 911 safely. He chose to step outside and escalate.

Paraphrasing our state laws. These opinions do not represent individual beliefs.

 

[Zerex]

Most to of you have just been wildly venting about theoretical tresspass, and your manhood.

The delivery kid, who was shot by the town supervisor.............. is YOU in action.

THINK

Last winter at 11:45pm a huge blackman walked up to my front door and rang the blink doorbell.........he very quickly stepped away about 20 feet, like he was going to shoot.....I saw no gun.............he finally walked away and disappeared in the snow.

No, I did not call the cops. Nothing happened. I did send the video clip to fam and friends.

MY camera system is a mini FLOCK, and I maintain a vigilance, due to the local marauding taliban scum

There are many ways this real event could have gone wrong..........I am no Town supervisor rotting in prison today.

THINK

 

[Zerex]

Why did I not call the cops?

First............can you think of any reason why he was here?

No

Were you buying or selling drugs from him?

Were you selling guns to him?
Are your guns secure.

I am entering you home to inspect and calling a drug dog.

THINK!!!!

 

[C3D]

Why did I not call the cops?

First............can you think of any reason why he was here?

No

Were you buying or selling drugs from him?

Were you selling guns to him?
Are your guns secure.

I am entering you home to inspect and calling a drug dog.

THINK!!!!

You're 100% turned around on this. When the homeowner shot the guy then the police would search his home (with a warrant).

Had he called the police, the police would come but would have no right to enter your house or even get a warrant unless you were foolish enough to leave something illegal in plain view.

 

[Zerex]

You do not know how cops work very well at all.

A call to them would have initiated an investigation right away, with possible exigent circumstances, looking for drugs and guns.

Black men do not knock on your door at 11:45 pm without a reason. Perhaps they wanted me to call the cops.

Go ahead walk outside, BRANDISHING a weapon with a tresspasser nearby.............. and see how long you own your guns. Walk outside without a weapon, is an entirely different set of circumstances.

Your rights basically stop at the doorstep.

 

[dwa12479]

Shooting an unarmed burglar inside your home, will likely get you seriously investigated.
A Civil Suit for wrongfull death, by dead burglar's family, is assured.

Homeowners Ins will be cancelled, credit will go to hell, temp loss of all firearms.

Use good door locks and camera systems..................shout that you will shoot, in eubonics

Total. Nonsense. Even in NY.

 

[spat]

You do not know how cops work very well at all.

A call to them would have initiated an investigation right away, with possible exigent circumstances, looking for drugs and guns.

Black men do not knock on your door at 11:45 pm without a reason. Perhaps they wanted me to call the cops.

Go ahead walk outside, BRANDISHING a weapon with a tresspasser nearby.............. and see how long you own your guns. Walk outside without a weapon, is an entirely different set of circumstances.

Your rights basically stop at the doorstep.

LoL, no.

In Texas law you can use deadly force on a tresspasser after dark if they are committing burglary, robbery, theft, or criminal mischief.

Most of America does not live under the pussified rules you do.

Even in NY law deadly force is justified to prevent burglary of a residence.

In all jurisdictions you are allowed to investigate noises on your property, and to use non deadly force to remove tresspassers. If those tresspassers escalate to something that justifies deadly force, then they open themselves up to that.

 

[Zerex]

Be safe, do not confront outside.

A friend, 15 years ago confronted several deputies outside the garage he owned, and was sleeping over in it.
He was armed.................The cops wondered why lights were on, and decided to stop and check............a pregnant moment occurred when they faced off vs each other outside his entry door................he put his gun down first, was handcuffed while an investigation occurred. My friend was sleeping in his motor home inside the garage, too tired or drunk to go home in his truck. Other police agencies also showed up.

He was not subsequently charged, but the Oneida PP office was contacted about him.
Many boasts about theoretically confronting bad guys, are just that..big imagination.

 

[dwa12479]

Be safe, do not confront outside.

A friend, 15 years ago confronted several deputies outside the garage he owned, and was sleeping over in it.
He was armed.................The cops wondered why lights were on, and decided to stop and check............a pregnant moment occurred when they faced off vs each other outside his entry door................he put his gun down first, was handcuffed while an investigation occurred. My friend was sleeping in his motor home inside the garage, too tired or drunk to go home in his truck. Other police agencies also showed up.

He was not subsequently charged, but the Oneida PP office was contacted about him.
Many boasts about theoretically confronting bad guys, are just that..big imagination.

Ah yes, the 'Ole "Trust me bro, listen to this anecdotal evidence I have from decades ago..."

 

[C3D]

@dwa12479, you seem to have a very aggressive interpretation of the contours of NY's self defense laws and practicalities. I wish you the best of luck should you run afoul of our legal system in a defensive shooting situation.

 

[Zerex]

I only post the truth as I have no difficulty recalling the facts.

The friend also had a Barrett 50 cal semi that I shot at Camden.......I d not like shooting 50's cals.........too much back blast. He had money and had a great gun collection. Eventually he lost his pp and I had to put all his pistols on my permit in Oneida County.

Why did he lose his PP?
He dropped his PPK and it discharged , hitting his index finger. At the Hospital, Cops came, AUTOMATICALLY., got a search warrant for his premises and the judge took away his pistol permit.

It seems when many buy a gun, their ego rises to Arnold Swarzenegger proportions.... I AM THE MAN, FUCK DEM LAWS, I am the victor over all, and minorities beware of me.

Sad but true.

Every year in NYS PP's are revoked for seemingly minor events..................brandishing is one, when reported.

Even separation agreements often times requires the man to give up all his weapons.................a single example of yelling at your partner can remove your rights due to DV.............. will Arnold accept that?

Will you be next, standing on your rots?

 

[dwa12479]

@dwa12479, you seem to have a very aggressive interpretation of the contours of NY's self defense laws and practicalities. I wish you the best of luck should you run afoul of our legal system in a defensive shooting situation.

Not really. I just dont subscribe to the fear mongering of a kook who says you'll end up in prison and be ruined for life for shooting an unarmed home invader INSIDE your home.