HDMotorCop
.40 S&W
...in 40 cal Glock. Any opinons? Anybody shooting one?
Kel-Tec Sub2000...
- Thread starter HDMotorCop
- Start date
Not legal for most folks in a post-Safe NY.
I had one in .40 (glock mags) way back and wrote a good deal about it elsewhere on the net; as I was what I believe to be one of very few people who posted about it from a smithing perspective anywhere. Reworking the fire control group and such. Actually I held back a lot in those posts because there was a time I considered trying to pitch the idea of a replacement FCG set, based on my research and work, to a company selling custom Kel-Tec parts.. but it never panned out, and then SAFE happened; so no more Sub2k.
What I'd say about it from past experience though is that like essentially all Kel-Tec products developed in it's time.. it leaves MUCH to be desired. The folding thing is a neat trick, and potentially a genuinely useful feature. Just about everything else about it..well, kind of sucks.
I had one in .40 (glock mags) way back and wrote a good deal about it elsewhere on the net; as I was what I believe to be one of very few people who posted about it from a smithing perspective anywhere. Reworking the fire control group and such. Actually I held back a lot in those posts because there was a time I considered trying to pitch the idea of a replacement FCG set, based on my research and work, to a company selling custom Kel-Tec parts.. but it never panned out, and then SAFE happened; so no more Sub2k.
What I'd say about it from past experience though is that like essentially all Kel-Tec products developed in it's time.. it leaves MUCH to be desired. The folding thing is a neat trick, and potentially a genuinely useful feature. Just about everything else about it..well, kind of sucks.
thegatman
.308 Win
Had one before SAFE in 9mm. It used 5900 series mags. Had to change the front sight to an AK-47 sight cause the original was crap. Now they make aftermarket stuff for it. It shot ok but glad to get rid of it.
HDMotorCop
.40 S&W
Was your FCG similar to what MCarbo is doing?
I'm considering the Gen2 primarily for the folding and "concealability" aspect. Personally I like the gun and I'm planning on trying to convince work that it should be a option for the MC guys. Obviously can't carry a long gun on the MC (yeah they make racks for shotgun/MSR, but it's constantly exposed to weather, dirt, people) but would be a nice possible option to fold and secure in a saddlebag thus still giving a little more "reach out and tough a bad guy" than just the pistol. With the glock capable Sub2K, you've got an interoperable platform between weapons too.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
A couple of us at the range had 3 of these babies. Two went back to the the factory for repairs. One of them, twice.
Some folks are ok with them and that might be fine as soon as you don't put too much stress on them.
They are cool but definitely not for any serious duty or defense.
These are some of the design's flaws:
- The barrels do not have enough section and are weakened by the small diameter.
- The tenon is epoxied in place and while it is secured it doesn't feel a strong design
and also makes it nearly impossible for servicing the barrel. So far only the factory are doing it.
- The bolt group is crude with machine markings, heavy and the spring is brutal so make sure
you have strong hands. they sell extended bolt handles that are reciprocating.
- Trigger sucks like all kelteks.
- The locking trigger guard loosens up with heavy use and the barrel might become undone
and unlocked leading to failures to fire. This can be tightened but eventually with lots of use
becomes loose again that is a royal pita and it takes away any trust on the gun for any
serious use.
- The polymers from the molds might show rough edges but those can be sanded down.
I could live with the lack of refinement in exchange for the innovation and folding nature
but the gun is just too unreliable and poorly executed.
- The front sights are plastic and very crude design. The front post came loose and had to be
epoxied back in place in two of them. After this and some reduction of the internal plastic
transparent piece that works as peep then the sights became quite acceptable for what they
are.
- The gun will not fold all the way with any sort of custom sights or scope.
I am glad they are gone. I will not miss them a bit.
Some folks are ok with them and that might be fine as soon as you don't put too much stress on them.
They are cool but definitely not for any serious duty or defense.
These are some of the design's flaws:
- The barrels do not have enough section and are weakened by the small diameter.
- The tenon is epoxied in place and while it is secured it doesn't feel a strong design
and also makes it nearly impossible for servicing the barrel. So far only the factory are doing it.
- The bolt group is crude with machine markings, heavy and the spring is brutal so make sure
you have strong hands. they sell extended bolt handles that are reciprocating.
- Trigger sucks like all kelteks.
- The locking trigger guard loosens up with heavy use and the barrel might become undone
and unlocked leading to failures to fire. This can be tightened but eventually with lots of use
becomes loose again that is a royal pita and it takes away any trust on the gun for any
serious use.
- The polymers from the molds might show rough edges but those can be sanded down.
I could live with the lack of refinement in exchange for the innovation and folding nature
but the gun is just too unreliable and poorly executed.
- The front sights are plastic and very crude design. The front post came loose and had to be
epoxied back in place in two of them. After this and some reduction of the internal plastic
transparent piece that works as peep then the sights became quite acceptable for what they
are.
- The gun will not fold all the way with any sort of custom sights or scope.
I am glad they are gone. I will not miss them a bit.
Other than replacing the plastic with metal, no. Definitely not.
I wasn't aware at all of the MCarbo set (though I'm certain it wasn't available back then), but my plan would have been quite different. After looking at it I have some serious doubts about their take on it and the credibility of the company and it's claims.
In regard specifically to how it would really change the pull, if you really think about it their kit is actually just a very expensive set of lighter than stock springs. The Sub2k internals are really fairly primitive and the metal trigger alone doesn't really have any effect whatsoever on the sear and hammer engagement or perhaps more importantly the nature of lockwork's kind of poor design. The Mcarbo site makes the claim, "Reduce your Trigger Pull from a stock 9-10 lbs to a crisp ~5 lb Trigger Pull", and the lighter hammer and sear springs will no doubt lighten the pull, but it's the both the "crisp" part and more importantly the fact that it's almost certainly significantly detrimental to reliability of primer ignition that really bother me.
I never had any kind of finished design per-say, just specs and ideas, but my take on it would have been to change somewhat drastically the sear's connection to both the the trigger and hammer; the parts that actually matter in taking out all the pre-travel and sloppy break. Quite frankly, their kit strikes me as a complete cop out.. or even a potentially dangerous con, in that it only addresses really pull by way of reducing hammer spring power. That's basically the same exact thing as people who think they are improving a S&W revolver trigger by just turning out the strain screw. Calling that a "trigger job", and not making note of the reliability risks, seems super shady.