Conspiracy

[holdover]

Yes.


Yes.


Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.


No, and why even ask such a ridiculous question?

This proves you committed the aforementioned false dichotomy though. An option you omitted was "Yes, the government does bad things, but no,I don't buy these ridiculous theories."

So with all of that said, how does any of that prove, in any way, these insane crisis actors/deep state malarkey theories?

#1I don't believe in crisis actors ,nor did I use them in my statement. why would you say that?

#2 these questions give us a basis for discussion .

#3 which theories are ridiculous and why?

The fact that you don't buy a theory because you think is ridiculous, means nothing . it doesn't prove or disprove anything .

If I gave you information that supported a theory , like steven paddock may have been running guns . You cant dismiss the evidence because you think its its absurd or irrelevant or ridiculous. It may or may not be true. You cant dismiss it outright , but I cant say it is a fact either. based on the facts that I know I have reason to suspect. I also know that the government may be inclined to cover up information that would lead to their own wrong doing.

 

[holdover]

You basically framed all of your questions as false dichotomies. You chose to write them as 'yes' or 'no' questions.

That makes them false? It basically constructs the framework of the conversation, Im trying to find out just what it is you believe is true or false?

But the choice you neglected to offer is the correct one...

'There are occasions in the past when the government/police have lied or covered up or influenced the media, etc etc. But there are also occasions when they have been truthful and upfront, etc etc.'​

Ok that's a good answer, that's what I was looking for. Now we have a starting point.

 

[holdover]

Which ""either or ""statement I made, was false?

 

[holdover]

'There are occasions in the past when the government/police have lied or covered up or influenced the media, etc etc. But there are also occasions when they have been truthful and upfront, etc etc.'

Ok , You know the government and the police and the media have lied and covered up information .

Does it give a person a basis to question what their told from institutions that have lied to them ?

 

[holdover]

I want to know specifically what you found to be absurd or deceitful about my statement: and elaborate on it.

They tend to believe things like ISIS is so powerful that the west just doesn't have the manpower to defeat these super men .
Police don't lie.
politicians are not influenced by lobbyists
That the military arms contractors don't depend on war to make a profit.
Corporation s give large sums of money to politicians without asking anything in return
Cannot differentiate between fact , evidence or opinions
Is not aware that the history of government from ancient times to present were full of corruption
Is not aware that people can be manipulated through information
Is not aware that government has used false stories to gain support for their own position while suppressing stories that don't.
Has no awareness of how intelligence agencies operate, or how they are used.
Has no understanding of behavior modification through information or propaganda
Is not aware that the official government 911 story of 19 hijackers from the Mideast that was planned for years to attack NYC was in fact a conspiracy


the conspiracy theorist who believe that powerful people that have a lot of influence actually use that power to maintain or grow that influence.
Actually use evidence to support their ideas ,
Almost always lacks the information needed to prove his theory because the information is classified .
Supports the idea that JFK was not killed by a single madman and has a tremendous amount of information supporting his Idea, but lacks the classified information to prove it.
Is completely aware that the media has become a branch of government , and has its agents working throughout it.
That information is controlled .

 

[Marine Cpl]

They aren't going to answer your specific question on what you were wrong on. Don't bother.

Freddy is a good guy to talk guns with but he's terrible at proving his point about other issues. He himself uses false dichotomy when it comes to defending his trolling on issues that come up on question. To him it's either you believe the facts the government and media present to you or you think lizards did it.

Darth on the other hand is a weird one. He knows that government and media is full of shit or could be full of shit but for some reason takes issue when someone talks about it. I don't get that line of thinking. Why would anyone have issue with someone else saying X may not have happened as they are saying it happened because Y doesn't make sense.

 

[Marine Cpl]

And notice how neither of them commented on the air traffic control video I posted that clearly says there were active shooters on the runway. It doesn't serve their purpose to even consider it.

For them it's either X or Y.

 

[GOPerfect]

Not sure what I dislike more, stupid people, or stupid people that try really hard at sounding smart?

 

[holdover]

Id love to know what Freddie thinks happened at sandy hook based on the facts .

 

[GOPerfect]

Id love to know what Freddie thinks happened at sandy hook based on the facts .

I am to the point where I don't care two shits what he thinks. I have found that he is clueless to nearly everything. It is impossible to have a conversation with him about anything. He is a very hateful little man and I do not read anything that he posts.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Id love to know what Freddie thinks happened at sandy hook based on the facts .

Based on his trust in media, he believes an AR15 made a shotgun blast at the door and the coroner pulled out 5.56mm FMJ bullets out of little kids bodies that are only a few inches thick. He also believes that a school bus driver dropped off kids at a total stranger's house by the name of Gene Rosen so that they could play with stuffed animals like he said they did instead of the school bus driver driving them to the bus compound or a police station. Those facts shall not be questioned.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I am to the point where I don't care two shits what he thinks. I have found that he is clueless to nearly everything. It is impossible to have a conversation with him about anything. He is a very hateful little man and I do not read anything that he posts.

I love when you say "Little Man." It cracks me up every time and I can't get enough of it.

 

[holdover]

I just simply wanted to know who he thought did it.

 

[GOPerfect]

I love when you say "Little Man." It cracks me up every time and I can't get enough of it.

Sometimes at work, I over use it. I see so many in the world as Little men. Has nothing to do with their station in life, the power the yield, the money they have; I found the last President to be a very Little man and he held the highest office.

 

[GOPerfect]

I just simply wanted to know who he thought did it.

Regardless of what he believes, he will not answer directly. In regards to Sandy Hook, if one thinks all was on the up and up and only one kid did this, man up and say that. Too many people are afraid of their own thoughts and beliefs.

 

[DoD1776]

The problem is that people do think they have evidence but it's just wild speculation. I think the vegas thread shows this best. People weren't just asking questions but making bold assertions. It was a government cover up complete with covert black ops wet work, a second then third then fourth and so on shooters, a terrorist plot, gun running, frame job, doctored photos, stolen evidence and so on. Mind you there was no "proof" of all this but wild assertions made by people with extremely limited knowledge of everything that happened that night. In their minds though they have solid evidence. I wouldn't even waste my time going on a sub forum like that except maybe to troll.

There was proof by audio clips of a belt fed machine gun... Vegas kept getting odder and odder

 

[Defilade]

The only response you are going to recieve from those two are .Gov talking points.

 

[freddy]

Id love to know what Freddie thinks happened at sandy hook based on the facts .

List of casualties
Killed:

• Perpetrator's mother
  • Nancy Lanza, 52, (shot at home)
• School personnel
  • Rachel D'Avino, 29, teacher's aide[19]
  • Dawn Hochsprung, 47, principal
  • Anne Marie Murphy, 52, teacher's aide[20]
  • Lauren Rousseau, 30, teacher
  • Mary Sherlach, 56, school psychologist
  • Victoria Leigh Soto, 27, teacher
• Students
  • Charlotte Bacon, 6[21]
  • Daniel Barden, 7
  • Olivia Engel, 6
  • Josephine Gay, 7
  • Dylan Hockley, 6
  • Madeleine Hsu, 6
  • Catherine Hubbard, 6
  • Chase Kowalski, 7
  • Jesse Lewis, 6
  • Ana Márquez-Greene, 6
  • James Mattioli, 6
  • Grace McDonnell, 7
  • Emilie Parker, 6
  • Jack Pinto, 6
  • Noah Pozner, 6
  • Caroline Previdi, 6[22]
  • Jessica Rekos, 6
  • Avielle Richman, 6
  • Benjamin Wheeler, 6
  • Allison Wyatt, 6
• Perpetrator
  • Adam Lanza, 20 (suicide)

Wounded:

• Natalie Hammond, 40, lead teacher
• Deborah Pisani[23]

Sources:[24][25][26]

 

[freddy]

Based on his trust in media, he believes an AR15 made a shotgun blast at the door and the coroner pulled out 5.56mm FMJ bullets out of little kids bodies that are only a few inches thick. He also believes that a school bus driver dropped off kids at a total stranger's house by the name of Gene Rosen so that they could play with stuffed animals like he said they did instead of the school bus driver driving them to the bus compound or a police station. Those facts shall not be questioned.

This? This is the best you've got?
You little man.
(Happy?)

 

[freddy]

I do not read anything that he posts.

Too bad, then you won't read when I tell everyone how much you love to suck my BBC.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Troll

 

[freddy]

Troll

Ha! That is your title (repeatedly) at ar15.com what a coincidence! Too funny.

 

[freddy]

'There are occasions in the past when the government/police have lied or covered up or influenced the media, etc etc. But there are also occasions when they have been truthful and upfront, etc etc.'

Ok , You know the government and the police and the media have lied and covered up information .

Does it give a person a basis to question what their told from institutions that have lied to them ?

Yes, I agree - question everything. Healthy skepticism is good in my book.

 

[freddy]

You basically framed all of your questions as false dichotomies. You chose to write them as 'yes' or 'no' questions.

That makes them false? It basically constructs the framework of the conversation, Im trying to find out just what it is you believe is true or false?

But the choice you neglected to offer is the correct one...

'There are occasions in the past when the government/police have lied or covered up or influenced the media, etc etc. But there are also occasions when they have been truthful and upfront, etc etc.'​

Ok that's a good answer, that's what I was looking for. Now we have a starting point.

No. That does not make them false. The problem is failing to consider other possibilities.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Little man.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Answer Holdover's question.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Ha! That is your title (repeatedly) at ar15.com what a coincidence! Too funny.

I backup what I say. Big difference. You post pictures of lizards.

 

[freddy]

I want to know specifically what you found to be absurd or deceitful about my statement: and elaborate on it.

They tend to believe things like ISIS is so powerful that the west just doesn't have the manpower to defeat these super men .
Police don't lie.
politicians are not influenced by lobbyists
That the military arms contractors don't depend on war to make a profit.
Corporation s give large sums of money to politicians without asking anything in return
Cannot differentiate between fact , evidence or opinions
Is not aware that the history of government from ancient times to present were full of corruption
Is not aware that people can be manipulated through information
Is not aware that government has used false stories to gain support for their own position while suppressing stories that don't.
Has no awareness of how intelligence agencies operate, or how they are used.
Has no understanding of behavior modification through information or propaganda
Is not aware that the official government 911 story of 19 hijackers from the Mideast that was planned for years to attack NYC was in fact a conspiracy


the conspiracy theorist who believe that powerful people that have a lot of influence actually use that power to maintain or grow that influence.
Actually use evidence to support their ideas ,
Almost always lacks the information needed to prove his theory because the information is classified .
Supports the idea that JFK was not killed by a single madman and has a tremendous amount of information supporting his Idea, but lacks the classified information to prove it.
Is completely aware that the media has become a branch of government , and has its agents working throughout it.
That information is controlled .

In all of these threads I have stated again and again (and again) that yes, there certainly have been events when the government has lied, misrepresented and covered up. We should question authority. We should examine what we are told. No debate. I have said this all along.

 

[Marine Cpl]

In all of these threads I have stated again and again (and again) that yes, there certainly have been events when the government has lied, misrepresented and covered up. We should question authority. We should examine what we are told. No debate. I have said this all along.

So what's the problem you have with Holdover than other than being a little man troll and posting lizards after everything he says?

 

[freddy]

I backup what I say. Big difference. You post pictures of lizards.

From the perspective of evidence a Youtube video is about as valid as lizard pics. You disagree with me on this point apparently. We are entitled to have different opinions.