3 new production class PRS rifles

[Podmonkey]

I have fairly recently been bit by the precision rifle bug, must be from trying really hard to eke out brag worthy groups with my AR15s
I had been looking at the offerings from Ruger, Savage, Tikka, Bergara and noticed that even those cost a pretty good amount of money. Last few days I have been looking at components, chassis, actions, barrels and have come away with some pretty big sticker shock. Enter this video:


$2k ain't exactly a low dollar item but they seem to offer a bit more over the typical factory offerings for not a whole lot more, less even in some cases. Bergaras' top precison offering runs $2,200.
These also seem just a little more svelte and elegant.
Having read about the Mausingfield action I gravitate towards that John Hancock rifle as it uses a version of that same action.


"John Hancock" Bolt Action Rifle - Deposit

I suppose another ramen diet is in order.

Man the amount of money I spend on my shooting habit it is amazing I am as fat as I am!

 

[Vapor]

Nope, hate precision guns.

 

[Jaywmustang]

I like the John Hancock, thought about picking one up but I just don’t have room for one......for now. I like tikka rifle and their tac 1a looks pretty sweet. What caliber are you considering?

 

[Edwardteach72]

I like the John Hancock, thought about picking one up but I just don’t have room for one......for now. I like tikka rifle and their tac 1a looks pretty sweet. What caliber are you considering?

Was just about to ask what caliber

 

[Podmonkey]

View attachment 47782

Nope, hate precision guns.

Ah, see? I have really been looking at the B10 Stealth too, nice rifle at a good price. But I would swap that stock out for a Magpul PRS and that is a couple hundred right there which gets me pretty close to the B10 Stealth Evolution model. And at $1850, what's another $150 or so for the Hancock? See how my mind works overtime to get me to spend unnecessary amounts of money?

I like the John Hancock, thought about picking one up but I just don’t have room for one......for now. I like tikka rifle and their tac 1a looks pretty sweet. What caliber are you considering?

I dunno. It seems that if you don't get a 6.5 Creedmore everyone seems eager to run over and slap your forehead for you, but If I hardly ever shoot beyond 500 yards wouldn't .308 be better? Even still, I have other rifles I want that covers .308 well so prolly 6.5 Creed. If I hand loaded though I'd prolly go for one of the medium range 6mm cartridges like 6mm Dasher or some such.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Ah, see? I have really been looking at the B10 Stealth too, nice rifle at a good price. But I would swap that stock out for a Magpul PRS and that is a couple hundred right there which gets me pretty close to the B10 Stealth Evolution model. And at $1850, what's another $150 or so for the Hancock? See how my mind works overtime to get me to spend unnecessary amounts of money?


I dunno. It seems that if you don't get a 6.5 Creedmore everyone seems eager to run over and slap your forehead for you, but If I hardly ever shoot beyond 500 yards wouldn't .308 be better? Even still, I have other rifles I want that covers .308 well so prolly 6.5 Creed. If I hand loaded though I'd prolly go for one of the medium range 6mm cartridges like 6mm Dasher or some such.

Meh go with 6.5

Everything I've read the 6.5 and good match .308s are about equal to 1,000yards and the 6.5 starts beating the .308 at and beyond 1,000yrds

Why limit the build, maybe you end up at a range that is at 1,000+ yards.. not to mention the 6.5 isnt much more compared to good .308

 

[Podmonkey]

Meh go with 6.5

Everything I've read the 6.5 and good match .308s are about equal to 1,000yards and the 6.5 starts beating the .308 at and beyond 1,000yrds

Why limit the build, maybe you end up at a range that is at 1,000+ yards.. not to mention the 6.5 isnt much more compared to good .308

Just one thing: Barrel life, I like to shoot a lot.
And 175gr loads and the 155gr Palma loads can get the .308 out to 1,000 yards, you just have more math to do. On the other hand I really hate maths. If I won the lottery and hand loaded and had regular access to 1,000+ yard ranges I would just say "fuck maths" and do a full custom rifle in .300 Norma Mag.
230gr pill @ 3.200 fps?......

 

[Edwardteach72]

Just one thing: Barrel life, I like to shoot a lot.
And 175gr loads and the 155gr Palma loads can get the .308 out to 1,000 yards, you just have more math to do. On the other hand I really hate maths. If I won the lottery and hand loaded and had regular access to 1,000+ ranges I would just say "fuck maths" and do a full custom rifle in .300 Norma Mag.
230gr pill @ 3.200 fps?......

Well 6.5 is flatter shooting but slightly more for even "range" ammo

Or .308 less expensive and everywhere... but ... math

 

[Jaywmustang]

Get a accuracy international AT then u can switch the caliber when needed at home.

 

[Podmonkey]

What about 6mm Creedmore, the Hancock is available in that caliber as well I believe.
What is factory ammo availability like for the 6mm Creed? It seems that for more medium ranges the 6mm cartridges are better suited, while the 6mm Creed can still do 1,000 yards well. Almost totally irrelevant for me, I have never shot past 600 yards befor and only rarely past 300 in general. Its difficult finding ranges that go out that far. And I refuse to deal with the fudd nazis on the PA state ranges. I'd just get into trouble.

Get a accuracy international AT then u can switch the caliber when needed at home.

Stupid expensive, and a rifle like that is kinda wasted on me. Don't get me wrong, those are excellent rifles, top of the line. Just want something a little simpler. And reading about the action on the John Hancock rilfe has really got me intrigued. It combines a Mauser 98 style extractor with a 1903 Sprinfield ejector. The way the locking lugs are done sound sounds interesting and the lugged detachable top rail also sounds very nice.
Also the action uses the Savage style barrel attachment method, easy to swap out barrels similar to an AR type system using a barrel nut.

Man I am really getting sold on this rifle!

 

[Podmonkey]

Nucleus Bolt Action

That all sounds like a whole bunch of goodness to me. Not a cheap action. Half the cost of the Hancock rifle in fact.

All three of these rifles all sound pretty high end at a medium range price.

 

[squib]

Meh go with 6.5

Everything I've read the 6.5 and good match .308s are about equal to 1,000yards and the 6.5 starts beating the .308 at and beyond 1,000yrds

Why limit the build, maybe you end up at a range that is at 1,000+ yards.. not to mention the 6.5 isnt much more compared to good .308

^This is incorrect. compare the ballisitic charts. The amount of wind correction and drop is significant.

 

[squib]

Get a accuracy international AT then u can switch the caliber when needed at home.

The price tag keeps the AI's out of production class

AI is more of a "weapons system." Made to go to hell, kill the devil and come home.

 

[Podmonkey]

The price tag keeps the AI's out of production class

AI is more of a "weapons system." Made to go to hell, kill the devil and come home.

All three rifles in the video were specifically built for the production PRS class. Frankly, when you read up on the Hancock rifle it almost seems like they sandbagged the price a little.
The others too I'm sure. In terms of retail pricing they are using a $1,000 action in a $500 chassis with a barrel they list on their site at over $500. Obviously they get a lower price for the action and chassis but still. Not to mention they are right here in PA

 

[northny]

Goggle “ precision rifle blog”. Guy there surveys the top PRs shooters every year on what they are using for (caliber, action, barrel, ammo, scope, ballistic program, etc). Last survey had the top 8 calibers used as 6 mm. 6mm creedmore was #2. 6.5 mm creedmore had dropped down to ninth in caliber used. Few top guys use it anymore

If you are serious enough about competing where you want a production compliant rifle to match scores with other shooters in production class go with 6mm.

I see the competition is with myself to improve and to have fun. I started with 308 and learned and improved a lot. I went to 6.5 CM more for lower recoil which for me over the course of 80- 100 rounds was more enjoyable. I might get a hit or two more with 6 CM but I doubt it. My misses are more me failing to get a stable shooting position quickly or bad wind read than misread of drop tables. But I’m not serious competitor.

 

[Vapor]

I asked myself the 308 vs 6.5 question a lot when I was considering a build.

For NY or PA I'm not sure the distance matters much. Most farm fields are only about 400 yards. The longest range I have access to is 200.

If you're like me, you have zero interest in reloading. SO, I ended up with .308 based on the fact I can get gold medal match locally for $25/box. Now, almost a year and half later, there us more variety of creedmor on the shelf than anything else.

In a heavy precision rifle, you're not going to notice much difference in recoil.



That being said, I have hunting bolt actions in 6.5 and .243. I really like both. I'm considering picking up a heavy barreled model 10 cheap and building it up. Especially since I have spare seekins rings and bases.



In B4 "MuH 6Mm WoNdeR CaRtrIdGe" crowd. I know as gun owners we tend to obsess about the smallest minutiae, but for those of us who don't reload or compete, I don't find the new 6mm stuff compelling at all. To each their own. I don't find the difference significant enough to warrant the difference in price or availability issues for me.

 

[Vapor]

Ah, see? I have really been looking at the B10 Stealth too, nice rifle at a good price. But I would swap that stock out for a Magpul PRS and that is a couple hundred right there which gets me pretty close to the B10 Stealth Evolution model. And at $1850, what's another $150 or so for the Hancock? See how my mind works overtime to get me to spend unnecessary amounts of money?

Sometimes it's fun to build. Other times, it's best to just pay more to get everything you want up front. A lot of t times, "builds" cost more than you think...

 

[Podmonkey]

The price tag keeps the AI's out of production class

AI is more of a "weapons system." Made to go to hell, kill the devil and come home.

BTW, does that price ceiling include end user add ons and upgrades?

Goggle “ precision rifle blog”. Guy there surveys the top PRs shooters every year on what they are using for (caliber, action, barrel, ammo, scope, ballistic program, etc). Last survey had the top 8 calibers used as 6 mm. 6mm creedmore was #2. 6.5 mm creedmore had dropped down to ninth in caliber used. Few top guys use it anymore

If you are serious enough about competing where you want a production compliant rifle to match scores with other shooters in production class go with 6mm.

I see the competition is with myself to improve and to have fun. I started with 308 and learned and improved a lot. I went to 6.5 CM more for lower recoil which for me over the course of 80- 100 rounds was more enjoyable. I might get a hit or two more with 6 CM but I doubt it. My misses are more me failing to get a stable shooting position quickly or bad wind read than misread of drop tables. But I’m not serious competitor.

I have no intention of competing, at least not in PRS. Maybe someday, but not in the forseeable future. Just want a really nice rifle to target shoot with that doesn't require a mortgage to purchase. After doing some research on 6.5 vs 6mm Creedmoor its seems the differences are very, very subtle. The 6mm does seem to be the better paper puncher, but factory loaded ammunition doesn't seem to be nearly as available as the 6.5 Creedmoor which itself seems to actually better the .308 now in terms of factory match and semi match loads. Also manufacturers such as Sellier & Bellot offer 6.5 Creed loads at about $.60 a round now. That's not bad for informal range ammo. All 308/7.62x51 has now is the really cheap surplus M80 ball.

I asked myself the 308 vs 6.5 question a lot when I was considering a build.

For NY or PA I'm not sure the distance matters much. Most farm fields are only about 400 yards. The longest range I have access to is 200.

If you're like me, you have zero interest in reloading. SO, I ended up with .308 based on the fact I can get gold medal match locally for $25/box. Now, almost a year and half later, there us more variety of creedmor on the shelf than anything else.

In a heavy precision rifle, you're not going to notice much difference in recoil.



That being said, I have hunting bolt actions in 6.5 and .243. I really like both. I'm considering picking up a heavy barreled model 10 cheap and building it up. Especially since I have spare seekins rings and bases.



In B4 "MuH 6Mm WoNdeR CaRtrIdGe" crowd. I know as gun owners we tend to obsess about the smallest minutiae, but for those of us who don't reload or compete, I don't find the new 6mm stuff compelling at all. To each their own. I don't find the difference significant enough to warrant the difference in price or availability issues for me.

I'm think since I already have a 308 with another on the list I may as well go for the 6.5 Creed.
The nice thing about this rifle is the action uses the same barrel attachment method as Savage so swapping out barrels should be about as easy as on an AR. I could experiment with all 3 cartridges if I really wanted. 6mm Dasher is apparently the owner of Patriot Valley Arms' favorite, and that is accordingly also an available chambering. The stubby benchrest 6mms however seem to dwell almost exclusively in the realm of the hand loader however so they are out for me.

Sometimes it's fun to build. Other times, it's best to just pay more to get everything you want up front. A lot of t times, "builds" cost more than you think...

Well, I seriously doubt I could put together these same rifles for under the $2,000 they are going for. And also, it can't be like a putting together an AR, which is like "Legos". And even if I could, my ham fisted, impatient, "square peg in a round hole? I'll make that sumbitch fit!!" nature doesn't really mesh with precison rilfe assembly.

 

[squib]

BTW, does that price ceiling include end user add ons and upgrades?

Price ceiling is $2000 for rifle and $2000 for optic. Add-ons don't count

 

[Jaywmustang]

The price tag keeps the AI's out of production class

AI is more of a "weapons system." Made to go to hell, kill the devil and come home.

That’s why I bought one. Definitely overkill for what I do

 

[squib]

That’s why I bought one. Definitely overkill for what I do

A lot of shooters use them at the club level

 

[Jaywmustang]

A lot of shooters use them at the club level

I wish I had clubs like that around me

 

[Podmonkey]

I wish I had clubs like that around me

Me too. There are some really nice facilities to which I could go of I was willing to travel fo a couple hours. And I would be, just not on the regular so I would be hesitant about the memberships.

 

[Jaywmustang]

I buy nice stuff to give me motivation to move we’re I can use them outside of ny.

 

[Podmonkey]

I buy nice stuff to give me motivation to move we’re I can use them outside of ny.

Well, that's why I thought this would be a good thread because precison bolt rifles are both NY friendly and interesting. Sexy even.

Any of y'all check out that link to the Action Manufacturer? Pretty cool stuff in that thing.

 

[Jaywmustang]

Well, that's why I thought this would be a good thread because precison bolt rifles are both NY friendly and interesting. Sexy even.

Any of y'all check out that link to the Action Manufacturer? Pretty cool stuff in that thing.

You got me scheming on how to buy a John Hancock lol. Not 100% sure how I feel about the krg bravo chassis yet. I have a bravo for my T1x, it’s not mounted yet. Wanted to try the T1x in stock form first.

 

[Podmonkey]

You got me scheming on how to buy a John Hancock lol. Not 100% sure how I feel about the krg bravo chassis yet. I have a bravo for my T1x, it’s not mounted yet. Wanted to try the T1x in stock form first.

I have been casully peeping out precision rifle for a while now honestly. Mostly out of curiosity as the trends have been changing so quickly.
The Bravo is the budget chassis but I actually like the polymer over aluminum skeleton construction. Polymer is cheap, tough, light and it won't burn you on a hot sunny day or frost burn you on a cold day. All the stuff of the next rung up X-Ray chassis can be added onto the Bravo and I don't see the top of the line Whiskey chassis being worth the $1200 frankly. Plus I actually prefer the more traditional looking Bravo. Add the cant and height adjustable but pad and you have all the functionality of the more expensive chassis. Frankly for a production class rifle the Bravo makes a lot of sense I think. And you can put the spigot mount on and add a top section rail and tripod mounting, or everything mount really, bracket underneath if you wanted. I doesn't seem to lack any of the standard precison features that one could want.

Oh, and the lead time on a Hancock seems to be 6+ months. Plenty of time to save up bit by bit after putting in the $250 deposit. I am seriously considering just going for it myself, but then I think about the glass cost and I hesitate.

 

[Jaywmustang]

I have been casully peeping out precision rifle for a while now honestly. Mostly out of curiosity as the trends have been changing so quickly.
The Bravo is the budget chassis but I actually like the polymer over aluminum skeleton construction. Polymer is cheap, tough, light and it won't burn you on a hot sunny day or frost burn you on a cold day. All the stuff of the next rung up X-Ray chassis can be added onto the Bravo and I don't see the top of the line Whiskey chassis being worth the $1200 frankly. Plus I actually prefer the more traditional looking Bravo. Add the cant and height adjustable but pad and you have all the functionality of the more expensive chassis. Frankly for a production class rifle the Bravo makes a lot of sense I think. And you can put the spigot mount on and add a top section rail and tripod mounting, or everything mount really, bracket underneath if you wanted. I doesn't seem to lack any of the standard precison features that one could want.

Oh, and the lead time on a Hancock seems to be 6+ months. Plenty of time to save up bit by bit after putting in the $250 deposit. I am seriously considering just going for it myself, but then I think about the glass cost and I hesitate.

I think I will end up liking my bravo once set up, it’s just so short but I have not added the spacers yet. I have 2 mdt chassis and like them so far.

What would your budget be for glass? I like my nightforce shv f1. I have one on my tikka t3x ctr.

 

[Podmonkey]

I think I will end up liking my bravo once set up, it’s just so short but I have not added the spacers yet. I have 2 mdt chassis and like them so far.

What would your budget be for glass? I like my nightforce shv f1. I have one on my tikka t3x ctr.

I am a big dude but I generally prefer a shorter LOP. But as you say, there are spacers right?
If it were a big issue the X-Ray gives full LOP adjustment and is not all that much more.

Budget for glass I suppose is $2,000. I like the Nightforce NXS scopes but I think the higher magnification range ones go for significantly more than that. I do like that NXS 2.5x10x42 model for my dream LMT MWS 308. There is also the Vortex HD line and I think Vortex's Japanese lines are excellent. I really like my Kahles 1-6 on my AR but again I think the higher magnification Kahles scopes are much more expensive.
Plenty of super great glass at the 2k level though.

It's a shame that Weaver discontinued that Japanese 6-30x56 Tactical model. That seemed a good fit here.

@dsdmmat is very fond of his Vortex Golden Eagle scopes. Crazy upper range magnification on those.

 

[Jaywmustang]

I am a big dude but I generally prefer a shorter LOP. But as you say, there are spacers right?
If it were a big issue the X-Ray gives full LOP adjustment and is not all that much more.

Budget for glass I suppose is $2,000. I like the Nightforce NXS scopes but I think the higher magnification range ones go for significantly more than that. I do like that NXS 2.5x10x42 model for my dream LMT MWS 308. There is also the Vortex HD line and I think Vortex's Japanese lines are excellent. I really like my Kahles 1-6 on my AR but again I think the higher magnification Kahles scopes are much more expensive.
Plenty of super great glass at the 2k level though.

It's a shame that Weaver discontinued that Japanese 6-30x56 Tactical model. That seemed a good fit here.

@dsdmmat is very fond of his Vortex Golden Eagle scopes. Crazy upper range magnification on those.

The vortex razor hd gen 2 can be found for less than $2000.