FBI seizing property (ppe)
- Thread starter Toecutter
- Start date
spat
.950 JDJ
If you need the masks that badly, just pay the man whatever he's asking for them. Why is that so hard ?
Those masks aren't getting anywhere in a hurry now.
The hospital would have had them in their hands already if they paid what he was asking.
Now, they'll turn up in some warehouse in 6 months, unless someone kicks FUAC's re-election campaign 5 times as much money as the rightful owner of the masks wanted to begin with.
It's simple, if it's not yours, and you take it anyway, you are a looter. It doesn't matter if you work for MS13, Antifa, or FUAC. It's still looting.
spat
.950 JDJ
Good for him.
Either they were worth that much, or someone else is selling enough to meet the demand for less.
It's really that simple.
PutnamCharlie
6.5 Creedmoor
Okay so lets say one of your kids gets sick or someone in your family and there is a drug that can cure them. Last week it was 100 bucks and this week it's 500k and insurance wont cover it. If you don't have that much it's fine? just let them die because they can charge whatever they want? I doubt you would say good for them.
nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
PutnamCharlie
6.5 Creedmoor
You end up with a shortage when there is a pandemic and china doesn't let you export masks to other countries. 3m mask production is in china and they wont let them export to here.
Paxal
.223 Rem
What constitues “hoarding”? Your ”hoarding” is my “prepping.” If we are talking about a guy having 100,000 masks, then yes - hoarding. But, hwat about someone who has 100 masks? Is that hoarding? I wish I had 100 N95s!
PutnamCharlie
6.5 Creedmoor
I don't consider them hoarders. They arent keeping them for themselves. They are trying to sell them for a big profit.
spat
.950 JDJ
I'd rather have the option of mortgaging the house and paying for it than to find out the government seized it because the price was too high and I can't get it at all.
Bottom line though, it's his stuff.
To save a family member I might break in and steal it, but I wouldn't leave $100 and try and pretend that wasn't stealing.
How about this one. There is that life saving medicine for $100, and there's 1000 doses out there.
Do you want to find out that 1000 people each bought one "just in case" and the shelf is now empty, or would you prefer the guy raised his price to $5000 and there are still some available because $5000 is too expensive to buy "just in case" ?
Some past member just wasted a ton of time posting some nonsense I see. That’s great.
...and still the FBI will continue doing this. Love it.
...and still the FBI will continue doing this. Love it.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Would all you guys that agree with this feel the same if it was ammo? Ammo to be given out to the police or military?
seezur
.40 S&W
I don’t think there’s a clear cut answer, more “common sense”. I have masks as well from some projects, same as you. I know a guy that bought a hundred or so because he’s high risk and worried. My understanding is the dude they went after had thousands and bought them only to price gouge the medical community.
It kind of ties in with the recent 3M thing. What’s OK regularly (selling to the highest foreign bidder, gouging) isn’t OK when it’s 1. A national health emergency, and 2. Putting individuals, companies, or other countries ahead of America for profits.
Anyone looking to make a quick buck at the cost of American lives is a piece of shit. Now is the time to band together. I mean, how are we gonna beat China in WW3 if we can’t even maintain basic levels of societal cohesion?
PutnamCharlie
6.5 Creedmoor
First off I don't keep 200k rounds of ammo. If I did have that much and our Military needed some to fight a war and not get killed your damn straight I would give them whatever they needed.
Intentionally buying to hoard, drive up resale value and then profit at the expensive of the immediate need of frontline troops during a war?
Yes, absolutely.
Now don't make up your own interpretations of my words like Spat did and turn it into ALL ammo. The above is very clear.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
First off, some people here do keep that much. And secondly, that choice should be left to the individual. Suppose he didn’t support the war or suppose he knew that the war would be lost and planned on selling them at a premium after the war so that he can survive? You are taking the choice away from the saver, prepper, etc.
Bottom line, it belongs to the person that bought them with his hard earned money.
You can add any item to that list. MRE’s, cans of food, guns, anything. It doesn’t belong to the government. If they want any of those items, they can ask him to pay for them. If the answer is no, then the government can buy them elsewhere or create them themselves.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
So you are saying that no one has the right to buy an item as an insurance policy? I don’t have the right to buy ammo for the next shortage to sell as I see fit? That’s a dictatorship man. Fidel Castro shit. I can’t buy .223 at 300 bucks a case to sell later at 500 bucks a case.
What else can the government come take away from me? My large stores of MRE’s? My water filtration system?
You’re conveniently leaving out that the people in question were actively attempting to sell the items at a markup during the crisis.
This is the problem with the constant hypotheticals. I’m talking about the actual people/incidents mentioned in the posted articles and the facts therein. You guys are discussing theories, fantasies, dreams and personal opinions with different sets of facts and considerations.
This is the problem with the constant hypotheticals. I’m talking about the actual people/incidents mentioned in the posted articles and the facts therein. You guys are discussing theories, fantasies, dreams and personal opinions with different sets of facts and considerations.
dwa12479
.338 Win Mag
This right here is spot on. These guys aren't procuring these items for personal use. They're looking to intentionally exploit a tragic situation for profit.
No different than the douchenozzles that sell bottled water for $50 or gas for $10 after a hurricane. Shameful.
First:
Fortunately our ammunition producers produced for military/ government contracts first so there would never be a need to do so.
Second:
confiscated ammo would be destroyed because there is no way to prove it has not been tampered with.
Third:
That would really start the next revolution/civil war. when the Brits tried that crap it ended badly for them.
Exactly. If the government was at the doors of every costco arresting toilet paper hoarders, I wouldn’t agree with it at all.
Conflating a situation like that with THE FACTS OF THESE CASES is total nonsense.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I’m not leaving that out. Why shouldn’t I sell masks at a high price for profit that I paid hard earned money for? That is what is supposed to make this country great.
I don’t disagree, but I told Will I‘d converse with him again so I have to answer some of his analogies.
Because they are needed desperately now in a national pandemic and the people who require their use for the greater good are having a very hard time procuring them. Times like this, the greater good of society trumps your right to be a profiteering scumbag.
That’s it, that’s my entire justification and I stand by it. I’d go on a mask confiscation raid like the ones in the articles.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Obviously this guy had the foresight that the inept government did not have. He should be able to sell his foresight and hard work to the government or anyone else he so chooses.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Greater good. That’s all that needs to be said there. What about my greater good? It’s not like the government doesn’t have the resources to pay for them. They were for sale.
I find it odd in the time that the government is saying all the masks need to be going toward first responders they are now saying anyone going out in public may be forced to wear a mask. So which is it the supply is so nonexistent that the government is confiscating stockpiles from individuals or is it there is enough Of a supply for us to force the people to wear one when the go out in public? Both sides of that equation is not computable.
But the government isn’t confiscating ALL of them. That was never the conversation here util Spat just SAID it was to bolster his argument.
The government (state or federal) has not and will not confiscate ALL masks (or anything else). They haven’t stopped stores that typically sell these items from selling them to the public for personal use. They haven’t banned personal use.
What happened was a few targeted raids directed at illegal price gouging and profiteering of MASSIVE amounts of the masks.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
This I can agree with because it’s against the law. I do not agree with the law because it goes against capitalism and everything that makes a market free but you are correct. It is against the law.
Agreed, this case is about profiteering.
Still the question remains. If we are moving towards, “all people in the public being required to wear a mask.“ where are they going to come from? People that have stockpiled warehouses full of masks in anticipation of the government creating a new market by requiring them to be used by people going out in public are in a no win situation. The have risked capital in anticipation of a market being opened up and being subject to raids by that very same government That created the demand in the first place. It is an interesting dynamic to say the least.
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If those people exist, maybe it is time they reach out to the appropriate agencies and start negotiating reasonable profit for themselves. Something south of 700% maybe?