Just saying in this case they had a clear path and were moving forward and away it was not the time to do anything other than retreat. A stand your ground state would be different.
I hear more and more of the BLM protests are coming to the suburbs
- Thread starter Saltwater60
- Start date
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I'm no tough guy but if I'm walking away and I've just been knocked over, and then I get up and some guy is prodding me with a bat and I am armed I am not going to continue walking with my back to the crowd, not a chance. One knock to the head and you can die, and a bat is certainly a deadly weapon in this context.
spat
.950 JDJ
You only have a duty to retreat if you can do so safely.
You do not have to keep running while a faster guy is beating you with a bat.
spat
.950 JDJ
Retreat if you are able, but never turn your back, that's just dumb.
If you are backing away and they continue to threaten and advance then you aren't able to safely retreat.
Do as you see fit. But know that your decision will be heavily criticized after the fact and you may need to face the music. In 2020 you will be the bad guy and they will be the good mostly peaceful protesters. You will be the guy who brought a gun and escalated. You were looking for any opportunity to shoot. This is just how you will be looked at and portrayed in the media. The media will influence the public and Grand Jury members. These are just things to think about. If you can run away it is best to do so. It’ll save you a lifetime of problems.
spat
.950 JDJ
Still, protesting (or counter protesting) is protected activity.
You do not give up your right to defend yourself just because you told someone they are wrong.
He wasn’t being beat though. Just tapped. Certainly not DF at the moment. Tough situation to be in. It’s best to just stay home or out of those areas then you don’t need to make a decision that can destroy your life.
Remember though that you loose A35 DF protections if you initiated the incident.
spat
.950 JDJ
Obviously avoiding the mess is the best course of action, but he was certainly being threatened with deadly force.
You don't need to wait until you are stabbed or shot to defend yourself, the gun or knife displayed in a threatening manner is enough.
Certainly being tapped with a bat is threatening, even if he isn't breaking bones, yet.
spat
.950 JDJ
So what is "initiating the incident" and what did that guy do that the BLM guys didn't do first ?
Does a white guy "initiate the incident" just by showing up in the wrong area ? Is that really where we want to go ?
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Once the beating with the bat starts you've already lost. It's too late at that point to use your gun. Similar to if somebody pulls a knife on you. You don't need to wait until you get stabbed to justify shooting them.
I agree it would nice to see what these guys did before this video started.
It’s 2020 though and the white Trump supporter brought a gun to a mostly peaceful protest and shot a person of color or who identifies as something else who just had a walking stick and is a good boy. You can’t win is all I’m saying. You are already the crazy aggressive violent one because who carries a gun? You must have been out looking for blood.
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Go? We're already there. You're guilty just by being white unless you come armed with no justice no peace signs and display them prominently.
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
This is very much like the incident in which that guy brought a skateboard to a gun fight a couple weeks back. As the crowd chased the guy retreating, then knocked him over, a guy with a skateboard made to attack him. At that point the guy with the gun decided he had seen enough and gunned the guy down. Not sure what will come of that case.
I know the shooter was arrested. It’ll all filter down to the DA and probably a Grand Jury.
spat
.950 JDJ
So, what you're saying is that we're already at the "don't call the cops, just hide the bodies" after a self defense incident stage ?
I don't think we're quite there yet, but we are getting closer.
My self defense philosophy has always been to avoid it unless you have no choice, regardless of the legality.
I would not consider exposing my back to an armed aggressor, and I would not consider sacrificing my tactical situation in wild hope that they would stop being aggressive.
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
The mob has no sense of justice now, which is why cops are being investigated, DA charges dropped against criminals, etc.
I'm still optimistic that the courts are somewhat decent. At the end of the day 12 people in a self defense case have to be convinced that you broke the law you're being charged with. I still believe most people recognize that when greatly outnumbered by a crowd, that you're trying to retreat from, you can defend yourself.
The guy who just had his brains kicked in in Portland and will 100%, guaranteed suffer damage from this (no recovery from such a kick will be complete, no chance of it). Had he drawn a weapon and defended himself before getting his head kicked in a jury may not have been happy with it, but had he waited until after having his head kicked in it's too late.
As wrong as I want this to be sadly it's probably correct.
We are at the point where there are 2 America's.
Your In a blue city in a blue state under their rules and jurisdiction. Just avoid these scenarios at all costs. A prosecutor in this area would love to make an example out of someone who stands up against the cause.
You don't see videos like this in red areas and red states. It just wouldn't fly. And if someone defended themselves it's much more likely the DA wouldn't press charges and even more likely a jury would find you not guilty.
The best advice I can give is regardless of what the laws say avoid these situations like the plague. Even if you do everything right, you're still going to be wrong.
Never step foot in these far left enclaves. Move to conservative areas if possible.
Don't give these liberal cities a dime of your money or a minute of your time. Let them burn and collapse.
Here’s the problem. The media will paint the picture and you’ve already lost. Yeah the jury will say they have no opinions and they didn’t see the news coverage. I wouldn’t count on it being true though.
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
Ever see Malkovitch interviewed on Conan O'Brian?
He talked about how he got mugged one night in NYC. Conan asked "really? What did you do?"
Malkovich replied "I went back up to my apartment and put on my stabbing clothes and went out looking for him."
E the massive
.308 Win
I agree. But be prepared to fight.
Bozo
.45 acp
Charges were dropped. Skateboard guy pulled a knife and was ventilated for it. Good shoot.
I believe there were still charges pending. I know one was dropped but he’s not off the hook entirely. Yet.
Bozo
.45 acp
Ah, I see. DA dropped the assault charge on the shooting, and is going for felony assault on the woman he shoved earlier. Using that to argue no right to self-defense in the later mob attack. Another garbage DA that needs to hang.
Bozo
.45 acp
Back on-topic - We've had a couple of BLM protests here in Vanilla Whiteville. High schoolers with some outside agitators pushing the limits. Shut down a main thoroughfare through town twice. The intent is clear - harassing/intimidating other citizens in an attempt to provoke a response. Plenty of soccer-mom "allies" defending them on social media, but the tide has turned and the majority is waking up to the truth. NYSP shut the 2nd protest down before it got very far. Seems everyone knows it is only a matter of time before someone gets hurt.