Minneapolis Police Choke an Unarmed Handcuffed Man to Death

[Chevusa]

No. The only thing that matters is that those officers got themselves fired. Bottom line if you are a cop, that’s the only thing that matters that along with not going to jail yourself.

Cops will be free and fine. This case is more dead than thug George. Facts not feelings.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Cops will be free and fine. This case is more dead than thug George. Facts not feelings.

They lost their jobs dude along with money. Wouldn’t of happened if he would have just listened to the other cop. But his outstanding leadership got him the result he didn’t want.

 

[Chevusa]

They lost their jobs dude along with money. Wouldn’t of happened if he would have just listened to the other cop. But his outstanding leadership got him the result he didn’t want.

Their jobs are the least of their concerns. They will be acquitted and get new jobs. Move along now.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Dude. You are a fool. If you ever do get a job in law enforcement which you desperately crave, do not act like this dude and throw it all away.

 

[Chevusa]

Dude. You are a fool. If you ever do get a job in law enforcement which you desperately crave, do not act like this dude and throw it all away.

They will be just fine. If all else fails they can clean trains and pretend to be warriors.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I’m bored now. You are saying stupid shit for you own ego.

 

[Grimscale]

Incorrect. If no pressure to neck, no death.

do you not know what the phrase "fatal level" and "overdose" mean?

George would have died regardless if the cop held him down for 2 minutes or 20.

The one thing I haven't seen, in all this hoopla, is how much pressure was actually being exerted on the criminal's neck.

Don't give me the bullshit of "the picture shows this". You can't tell shit from a picture.

And now we hear of a FATAL OVERDOSE of opioids.


It's clear this was used to enact political upheaval, and I'm starting to think these cops are being railroaded.


I've seen opioid overdose up close. No siezure, no shaking, no "eyes rolled up in the head". The person looked to be peacefully sleeping except her breathing was ONCE every TWO MINUTES. It was more of a gasp than a breath.
I saw it happen to the same person twice. She didn't come back from the second time.

 

[Blimey]

So it has come out that George Floyd died of a fentanyl overdose. The cop using an approved restraint technique was not the cause of death. Not only were the drug levels in his system fatal, but they were 30% higher than the average fatal level of fentanyl. This is game changing! This is what happens when people jump to conclusions and don't wait to hear the facts. Just like Michael Brown "hands up don't shoot"! It's all bullshit!

I understand postmortem levels of this drug to be not a great indicator of what the levels were before death.

There is a lot of unfortunate evidence that has come out lately for the prosecution and I will not be surprised if at least the three cops walk and possibly Chauvin as well.

That doesn’t change the fact that a hold like that is only supposed to be temporary. It’s supposed to be temporary because the one who placed such hold, isn’t a qualified professional that has run a battery of tests on the individual to determine what one person could withstand and another cannot withstand.

Bottom line. There is no reason whatsoever to hold someone like that for 9 minutes. None. He was handcuffed. It would be physically impossible for him to escape while on the ground in the presence of 3 officers.

I agree but whether that actually rises to the level of a crime is what the court will have to figure out.

Incorrect. If no pressure to neck, no death. Whether he would’ve lasted longer due to fentanyl in his system or breathing issues due to Covid is irrelevant.

Absolutely incorrect. I could also say if no fentanyl no death, making everything else irrelevant. All of this is all very relevant.

 

[pjzwtl]

I smell a business opportunity ... "The consumer is always right" and "No mask, No problem". Just don't shop there anymore.

I believe it depends on where the samples were from. If blood I would think it to be a good indicator but I’m not an ME?

 

[spat]

I understand postmortem levels of this drug to be not a great indicator of what the levels were before death.

There is a lot of unfortunate evidence that has come out lately for the prosecution and I will not be surprised if at least the three cops walk and possibly Chauvin as well.
I agree but whether that actually rises to the level of a crime is what the court will have to figure out.
Absolutely incorrect. I could also say if no fentanyl no death, making everything else irrelevant. All of this is all very relevant.

It's all irrelevant.

The whole country was primed for this, and the media were itching to pull the trigger.

If it wasn't these cops and this thieving junkie it would have been someone else within a few weeks.

If there wasn't any misconduct sone would have been invented out of whole cloth if necessary (as we have seen many times since GF).

 

[Marine Cpl]

You guys are missing the point. Let’s assume for the sake of discussion that he would have died at the exact same time whether a knee was on his neck for that amount of time or there was no knee on his neck at all due to the overdose. Let’s assume that. Time of death would have been the exact same despite having an easier time to breathe if in a better position without compression and despite the fact that an overdose is respiratory collapse that is dependent on the drug tolerance of the abuser and whether he or she is in an optimal breathing position.

Is it prudent to continue to keep a knee on a neck for that amount of time after being restrained with handcuffs and after the death to spite onlookers? If your answer is “YES” then you are the reason why cops get away with applying excessive force in situations that do not warrant or no longer warrant the amount of force used.

 

[Chevusa]

You guys are missing the point. Let’s assume for the sake of discussion that he would have died at the exact same time whether a knee was on his neck for that amount of time or there was no knee on his neck at all due to the overdose. Let’s assume that. Time of death would have been the exact same despite having an easier time to breathe if in a better position without compression and despite the fact that an overdose is respiratory collapse that is dependent on the drug tolerance of the abuser and whether he or she is in an optimal breathing position.

Is it prudent to continue to keep a knee on a neck for that amount of time after being restrained with handcuffs and after the death to spite onlookers? If your answer is “YES” then you are the reason why cops get away with applying excessive force in situations that do not warrant or no longer warrant the amount of force used.

You are missing the point. The police did not kill your boy George.

If their actions looked bad to the public that is unfortunate, but has nothing to do with the facts in the murder trial.

I know, I know, George was a good boy. I'm sure he's up in heaven now.

Too bad he didn't OD before the cops caught up with him. It would have saved our country a lot of trouble.

 

[Blimey]

It's all irrelevant.

The whole country was primed for this, and the media were itching to pull the trigger.

Agree, it's why even if this hadn't happened it wouldn't actually have saved the country anything until the next one happened.

You guys are missing the point. Let’s assume for the sake of discussion that he would have died at the exact same time whether a knee was on his neck for that amount of time or there was no knee on his neck at all due to the overdose. Let’s assume that. Time of death would have been the exact same despite having an easier time to breathe if in a better position without compression and despite the fact that an overdose is respiratory collapse that is dependent on the drug tolerance of the abuser and whether he or she is in an optimal breathing position.

Is it prudent to continue to keep a knee on a neck for that amount of time after being restrained with handcuffs and after the death to spite onlookers? If your answer is “YES” then you are the reason why cops get away with applying excessive force in situations that do not warrant or no longer warrant the amount of force used.

I don't know if the guy kept his neck on him to spite onlookers or not. It's possible.

This will come out in a trial. I know from previous trials in which a white person so obviously murdered a black person in cold blood because they were profoundly racist we've seen the real facts upend the common narrative. And we've seen acquittals.

You must admit some of the recent discoveries in this case (the resisting arrest one is a huge one) have made things trickier for a conviction.

 

[Marine Cpl]

You are missing the point. The police did not kill your boy George.

If their actions looked bad to the public that is unfortunate, but has nothing to do with the facts in the murder trial.

I know, I know, George was a good boy. I'm sure he's up in heaven now.

Too bad he didn't OD before the cops caught up with him. It would have saved our country a lot of trouble.

It was definitely a contributing factor when compression is applied to an already failing respiratory system. To say that it isn’t is disingenuous.

And stop the BS about him being my boy. I have already said that no fucks are given to him by myself. What fucks are given by myself is the unnecessary force applied after being restrained. If you allow that for this asshole, you allow that to yourself one day when you refuse to wear a mask and your buddies respond. That’s the whole point.

 

[spat]

It was definitely a contributing factor when compression is applied to an already failing respiratory system. To say that it isn’t is disingenuous.

And stop the BS about him being my boy. I have already said that no fucks are given to him by myself. What fucks are given by myself is the unnecessary force applied after being restrained. If you allow that for this asshole, you allow that to yourself one day when you refuse to wear a mask and your buddies respond. That’s the whole point.

If it weren't for the rioting this would actually be a net gain.

Society would be rid of one scumbag junkie cheap, and a guy on a power trip who had no business in a uniform is off the force.

Both can be true, they aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

And, just like that Minneapolis is burning again

Minneapolis stores looted as mayhem erupts following gunman's suicide: police

A suspected gunman fatally shot himself Wednesday as Minneapolis police were moving in to arrest him for a slaying committed hours earlier, prompting reports of looting in the downtown area, police told Fox News.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Blimey]

And, just like that Minneapolis is burning again

Minneapolis stores looted as mayhem erupts following gunman's suicide: police

A suspected gunman fatally shot himself Wednesday as Minneapolis police were moving in to arrest him for a slaying committed hours earlier, prompting reports of looting in the downtown area, police told Fox News.

www.foxnews.com

Facts don't matter. Most of these shootings are now just a compact among society's worst that they will all meet up after dark and go shopping for free.

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

You guys are missing the point. Let’s assume for the sake of discussion that he would have died at the exact same time whether a knee was on his neck for that amount of time or there was no knee on his neck at all due to the overdose. Let’s assume that. Time of death would have been the exact same despite having an easier time to breathe if in a better position without compression and despite the fact that an overdose is respiratory collapse that is dependent on the drug tolerance of the abuser and whether he or she is in an optimal breathing position.

Is it prudent to continue to keep a knee on a neck for that amount of time after being restrained with handcuffs and after the death to spite onlookers? If your answer is “YES” then you are the reason why cops get away with applying excessive force in situations that do not warrant or no longer warrant the amount of force used.

If police had pulled him over, handcuffed him, while he was speeding at 70 mph on his way to the hospital because he was experiencing an overdose, and died, would the police be charged with murder (or other)? You can say its not the same thing but the trial needs to be about the facts and not the perception. Did they pull him out of the police cruiser just to kneel on him or was there another reason he ended up face down on the street?

 

[Marine Cpl]

If police had pulled him over, handcuffed him, while he was speeding at 70 mph on his way to the hospital because he was experiencing an overdose, and died, would the police be charged with murder (or other)? You can say its not the same thing but the trial needs to be about the facts and not the perception. Did they pull him out of the police cruiser just to kneel on him or was there another reason he ended up face down on the street?

Totally irrelevant at this point as this is old news but since I’m assuming that you want to play, here goes.

Whether he was overdosing or not or resisting or not, once restrained and handcuffed to the point where he could not get away from 3 officers, there is absolutely no reason to keep a knee on a neck adding comprehension. None whatsoever especially after another officer tells you to let go and turn him around unless you are doing it for spite, ego, or other malicious reasons.

Assuming you yourself are a healthy person, if you had a knee on your neck along with one on your back adding weight and compression to you, you’d have a more difficult time to breathe compared to being on your back, sitting up, standing up, or just remaining on your belly with no additional pressure on you. That’s a fact.

Another fact is that if you are having difficulty breathing due to drug use or having an overdose that slows your respiratory system, that compression makes it even more difficult. He may very well have died without the knee but the continuous knee cemented his death. There was no chance whatsoever to survive it. None at all. One can survive overdosing if proper antidotes are administered and breathing is helped via medical procedures.

Perhaps he could have held on long enough for a paramedic to do what they do to patients that cannot breathe. The knee took that all away and the continuous knee after he passed out, cemented it further.

 

[Defilade]

WTF is this shit???

RNC Video Showing Rioters In “Biden’s America” Is Actually Spain

The video is part of a pattern of Trump and his supporters portraying BLM protests as violent.

www.buzzfeednews.com

 

[Robin]

The thread title really should be changed! Maybe, Cop is wrongly charged in murder of dirt bag that OD'd himself!
Robin

 

[Marine Cpl]

Or perhaps the title should be “Cop continued to apply force even after restrained”.

 

[Robin]

“Cop continued to apply force even after restrained dirt bag dies from OD'ing himself.”. Dirt bag woman beater AG calls it murder.
Robin

 

[Chevusa]

He would have died if he were floating on a cloud. Cops did not kill him. They certainly didn't help, but how could they have known he swallowed several bags of drugs and they burst?

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

Totally irrelevant at this point as this is old news but since I’m assuming that you want to play, here goes.

Whether he was overdosing or not or resisting or not, once restrained and handcuffed to the point where he could not get away from 3 officers, there is absolutely no reason to keep a knee on a neck adding comprehension. None whatsoever especially after another officer tells you to let go and turn him around unless you are doing it for spite, ego, or other malicious reasons.

Assuming you yourself are a healthy person, if you had a knee on your neck along with one on your back adding weight and compression to you, you’d have a more difficult time to breathe compared to being on your back, sitting up, standing up, or just remaining on your belly with no additional pressure on you. That’s a fact.

Another fact is that if you are having difficulty breathing due to drug use or having an overdose that slows your respiratory system, that compression makes it even more difficult. He may very well have died without the knee but the continuous knee cemented his death. There was no chance whatsoever to survive it. None at all. One can survive overdosing if proper antidotes are administered and breathing is helped via medical procedures.

Perhaps he could have held on long enough for a paramedic to do what they do to patients that cannot breathe. The knee took that all away and the continuous knee after he passed out, cemented it further.

No, it's not irrelevant. It's a simple question which you avoided answering, and I'm not asking to "play". I'm asking a question.

He was handcuffed, that's obvious. If he was still resisting before being placed in the vehicle (or on the ground) in a seated position, he can still make an attempt to flee the officers. I'm also not asking / saying that the manner in which he was restrained was correct or warranted. I don't know, I wasn't there, and I didn't experience the degree of difficulty he was giving the officers. I'm not a LEO.

I'm not a medical expert (as I suspect you're not either) so I can't determine if the knee on his neck was adding "comprehension". Some might also speculate as to the amount of pressure being applied by that left knee as the officer had his other knee on the ground so only THEY (the officer and Floyd) will ever know how much pressure that was. Who knows how much pressure the others were applying? Were they double knees on the back or only enough to keep him from moving?

As to whether or not the officer's actions "cemented" his death, would only be speculation from those (like you and I) who would not be privy to ALL the facts and data from an M.E,'s autopsy report. Of course it would be more difficult to breathe. Would it be enough to cause your / my / his death? Speculation again. Anyone can armchair quarterback a cause of death and to say the officer's unequivocally caused his death, at this point, is a bold and ill informed statement. MAYBE he could've still been alive for the medic's to help him. MAYBE he'd have stopped breathing, had a heart attack, and died on the back set of the cruiser. MAYBE he'd still be alive if he didn't have drugs in his system. Maybe. Maybe.

The point I was trying to make is to what extent did the officer's contribute to his death? Should they be charged, tried, and possibly convicted of murder, manslaughter, or negligent homicide (I'm not going to define which as I'm also not a District Attorney, neither here or in their city) or should they receive a disciplinary action for performing poorly in their duties and training? A guilty decision in either option would be drastically different for the future of those officers. Whether that / those officers did what they did with intent to end his life is another matter. Proving intent is not an easy task.

IF they were in fact the cause of his death, they should be responsible for some punishment, especially if it was intentional. If not intentional, they should be disciplined accordingly.

A good friend of mine is a police officer and I can only begin to understand how they are put in no win situations all day long. Just as with anything reported by the media, you get bits and pieces of information. Videos typically only represent a portion of what actually happened, unless it's from a body cam, and even that information can be incomplete.

 

[Marine Cpl]

No, it's not irrelevant. It's a simple question which you avoided answering, and I'm not asking to "play". I'm asking a question.

He was handcuffed, that's obvious. If he was still resisting before being placed in the vehicle (or on the ground) in a seated position, he can still make an attempt to flee the officers. I'm also not asking / saying that the manner in which he was restrained was correct or warranted. I don't know, I wasn't there, and I didn't experience the degree of difficulty he was giving the officers. I'm not a LEO.

I'm not a medical expert (as I suspect you're not either) so I can't determine if the knee on his neck was adding "comprehension". Some might also speculate as to the amount of pressure being applied by that left knee as the officer had his other knee on the ground so only THEY (the officer and Floyd) will ever know how much pressure that was. Who knows how much pressure the others were applying? Were they double knees on the back or only enough to keep him from moving?

As to whether or not the officer's actions "cemented" his death, would only be speculation from those (like you and I) who would not be privy to ALL the facts and data from an M.E,'s autopsy report. Of course it would be more difficult to breathe. Would it be enough to cause your / my / his death? Speculation again. Anyone can armchair quarterback a cause of death and to say the officer's unequivocally caused his death, at this point, is a bold and ill informed statement. MAYBE he could've still been alive for the medic's to help him. MAYBE he'd have stopped breathing, had a heart attack, and died on the back set of the cruiser. MAYBE he'd still be alive if he didn't have drugs in his system. Maybe. Maybe.

The point I was trying to make is to what extent did the officer's contribute to his death? Should they be charged, tried, and possibly convicted of murder, manslaughter, or negligent homicide (I'm not going to define which as I'm also not a District Attorney, neither here or in their city) or should they receive a disciplinary action for performing poorly in their duties and training? A guilty decision in either option would be drastically different for the future of those officers. Whether that / those officers did what they did with intent to end his life is another matter. Proving intent is not an easy task.

IF they were in fact the cause of his death, they should be responsible for some punishment, especially if it was intentional. If not intentional, they should be disciplined accordingly.

A good friend of mine is a police officer and I can only begin to understand how they are put in no win situations all day long. Just as with anything reported by the media, you get bits and pieces of information. Videos typically only represent a portion of what actually happened, unless it's from a body cam, and even that information can be incomplete.

What did I avoid answering? If he was resisting? At that point and moment, he was not. He could not have physically gotten away. He was on his face with his hands cuffed behind his back.

 

[spat]

“Cop continued to apply force even after restrained dirt bag dies from OD'ing himself.”. Dirt bag woman beater AG calls it murder.
Robin

Maybe "Dirtbag kills himself and gets bad cop removed from the force all at once".

Too bad the cost of both was burning half of America to the ground.

 

[spat]

He would have died if he were floating on a cloud. Cops did not kill him. They certainly didn't help, but how could they have known he swallowed several bags of drugs and they burst?

Eggshell skull - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

There's also the felony murder rule.

If this was felony excessive force, and the guy died, it doesn’t matter if the excessive force was the cause or not.

I've never liked the felony murder rule, I think it should be abolished, but it's a rule.

 

[Blimey]

Eggshell skull - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

There's also the felony murder rule.

If this was felony excessive force, and the guy died, it doesn’t matter if the excessive force was the cause or not.

I've never liked the felony murder rule, I think it should be abolished, but it's a rule.

That wiki is unexpected to me. Note that it is NOT a valid defense. So if you have some insane fragility that means if I slap someone across the face their head literally explodes, I will be punished for doing something that caused their head to explode even though a simple slap could not have been anticipated to do that.

 

[spat]

That wiki is unexpected to me. Note that it is NOT a valid defense. So if you have some insane fragility that means if I slap someone across the face their head literally explodes, I will be punished for doing something that caused their head to explode even though a simple slap could not have been anticipated to do that.

That is correct.

You slap someone open handed on the face and some blood vessel in their brain that's been a ticking time bomb for the last 6 months pops, you could be going in for manslaughter.