SHOTGUN ROUND LIMIT UNDER THE SAFE ACT

[Bustedknees]

I'd like to bid on a 3 gun shotgun (FN SLP ) online but it comes factory 8+1. I thought the courts tossed the 7 round limit as too abritary . Dont want to bid and win only to be not able to transfer. Not sure I'd find an ffl willing to pull the tube extension off either. But I know I can buy new ten round pistols all day long. I hate NY !

• A semiautomatic shotgun having at least one of the following characteristics:

a. Folding or Telescoping Stock b. Thumbhole Stock
c. Second Handgrip or Protruding Grip that can be held by non-trigger hand d. Fixed magazine capacity in excess of seven rounds
e. An ability to accept a detachable magazine

 

[Edwardteach72]

7 round limit was tossed out for handguns and rifle magazines, and nothing was said about shotgun tubular magazines

 

[Edwardteach72]

Also even if you look up the penal law for magazines it will still say 7 rounds,

The state never amended that laws to comply with the court ruling

 

[PutnamCharlie]

They sell these all the time here.

Standard Manufacturing DP-12 12-Gauge Double-Barrel Pump-Action Shotgun, 18.875" Barrels, 16 Rounds, Black

 

[Edwardteach72]

Never mind hmm looks like the law may have been updated to 10 rounds

 

[Edwardteach72]

They sell these all the time here.

Standard Manufacturing DP-12 12-Gauge Double-Barrel Pump-Action Shotgun, 18.875" Barrels, 16 Rounds, Black

Those are pump action shotguns

 

[PutnamCharlie]

Didn't know we were talking semi auto. Sorry
Now I see it.

 

[C3D]

Never mind hmm looks like the law may have been updated to 10 rounds

It most definitely has *not* been updated and the seven round limit applies to semi-auto shotguns. It was not part of the decision that "restored" rifles and pistols to 10 rounds. For pumps, it's 10.

 

[cgrutt]

8 round (or more) tube capacity on semi-auto shotgun is no good under NY law. Can have 7 round tube with no other evil features (e.g., folding or collapsible stock). Can have folding stock with 5 round tube. Note pistol grip is not an evil feature on semi auto shotgun under unSAFE so pistol grip is GTG either configuration. Benelli M4 will give you 7+1+1 by ghost loading a shell on the carrier plate with another in chamber. Believe a Mossberg 930 tactical will do same.

 

[Edwardteach72]

It most definitely has *not* been updated and the seven round limit applies to semi-auto shotguns. It was not part of the decision that "restored" rifles and pistols to 10 rounds. For pumps, it's 10.

I didn't say it was apart of the ruling

Also maybe you should go check the penal code before commenting, I mean atleasy I went back and corrected myself. You still have time

 

[C3D]

time

I’m not sure why your reply has taken a snarky tone, but will respond with more detail to the question posed.

The relevant definition you are looking for is in Penal Law Section 265.00 (22(b)), which states that any semiautomatic shotgun with a fixed magazine capacity in excess of seven rounds is considered an “assault weapon” and thus a violation of Penal Law Section 265.03 (7).

The definition you posted is Penal Law Section 265.00 (23), which defines a large capacity ammunition feeding device and for which the possession of which would be a violation of Penal Law Section 265.03 (8). That is an independent crime from the offense of possession of a shotgun meeting the definition of Penal Law Section 265.00 (22(b)) (namely, Section 265.03 (7)).

 

[cgrutt]

Responses taking off in another tangent lol. I didn't get the "snarky" tone either but whatever. OP just needs to know 8 or more in semiauto shotgun is no good (for us mere civilians but that's another tangent). 7 or less is GTG. 5 or less and you can add some evil features if you wish.

 

[Acer-m14]

damn shotgun mini shells .. ( not sure they work in semi guns ) but i bet the shell plate could be mod'ed like the pump guns ..
they left out what shell length in the law LOL ..


PS .. damn semi shotguns that hold 7 or 6 in the tube and you just need a wood dowel in the tube to make it 3 for waterfowl hunting

 

[cgrutt]

damn shotgun mini shells .. ( not sure they work in semi guns ) but i bet the shell plate could be mod'ed like the pump guns ..

PS .. damn semi shotguns that hold 7 or 6 in the tube and you just need a wood dowel in the tube to make it 3 for waterfowl hunting

Yeah, good luck with that but I like the way you're thinking...

 

[Gonzobird]

Send it to an FFL who is willing to make the tube seven and you are all set. If you want to make it permanent the tube could be cut and then re-threaded for the end cap.

If I recall if the SLP is brand new it should come with a plug for the tube. Not sure if that has changed over the years.

 

[CarpNY]

The relevant definition you are looking for is in Penal Law Section 265.00 (22(b)), which states that any semiautomatic shotgun with a fixed magazine capacity in excess of seven rounds is considered an “assault weapon” and thus a violation of Penal Law Section 265.03 (7).

The definition you posted is Penal Law Section 265.00 (23), which defines a large capacity ammunition feeding device and for which the possession of which would be a violation of Penal Law Section 265.03 (8). That is an independent crime from the offense of possession of a shotgun meeting the definition of Penal Law Section 265.00 (22(b)) (namely, Section 265.03 (7)).

Tone aside, the OP said, " I thought the courts tossed the 7 round limit as too arbitrary." Edwardteach72 responded that the ruling was for rifle and pistol magazines, but also pointed out that even that penal law (for rifle and pistol magazines) hadn't even been amended to reflect that. He, then, corrected his statement after looking up that code (again, for rifle and pistol magazines.) You, assuming that he was referring to the main question at hand, responded that "it" (meaning capacity limit on semi-auto shotguns) had not been amended. He quoted the penal code to which he was referring. You two were talking about different things and don't really have a disagreement.

 

[Edwardteach72]

I’m not sure why your reply has taken a snarky tone,

Seeing as you don't seem to have any reading comprehension I will try and break this down for you, I know this is going to be hard to follow but let's see what we can do.

It most definitely has *not* been updated and the seven round limit applies to semi-auto shotguns. It was not part of the decision that "restored" rifles and pistols to 10 rounds. For pumps, it's 10.

Original post comment had this (I'm sure based on how you didn't follow any of the posts and just made your stupid ass comment you definitely read all this)

I thought the courts tossed the 7 round limit as too abritary .

I responded with

7 round limit was tossed out for handguns and rifle magazines, and nothing was said about shotgun tubular magazines

Oh wow what the fuck do you know, I specifically said that the ruling on the 7 rounds being arbitrary HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH SHOTGUNS..... SHOCKER

And then I posted this comment right after the one above

Also even if you look up the penal law for magazines it will still say 7 rounds,

The state never amended that laws to comply with the court ruling

But then I actually looked up the penal code to make sure I was giving correct information on the subject I was talking about (maybe if you can't figure out what's being talked about then you shouldn't comment)

Never mind hmm looks like the law may have been updated to 10 rounds

Now why would I make that comment.. oh wait I know, because just above it I said that the state never updated the penal code for the court ruling to allow for 10 round magazines but guess what they did MUCH WOW

But then some Jack ass decided to write this stupid ass useless comment

It most definitely has *not* been updated

oh wait here is another quote from me, guess what the penal code used to say instead of ten... you guessed it... seven.. but since it now says ten instead of seven that would be what we call an UPDATE...

View attachment 101383

Oh hey let's look at the other part of your stupid ass comment to me

the seven round limit applies to semi-auto shotguns. It was not part of the decision that "restored" rifles and pistols to 10 rounds. For pumps, it's 10.

I know it may be difficult, reading comprehension and all, and there is a whole lot going on and you probably can't follow along.. but we'll look at atleast 2 of my posts where I told you my one comment about updating the law had nothing to do with shotguns.. or again if that is to difficult for you, which I 100% expect it to be, just let me know and I can try and break it down EVEN simpler for you

 

[C3D]

Seeing as you don't seem to have any reading comprehension I will try and break this down for you, I know this is going to be hard to follow but let's see what we can do.





Original post comment had this (I'm sure based on how you didn't follow any of the posts and just made your stupid ass comment you definitely read all this)



I responded with


Oh wow what the fuck do you know, I specifically said that the ruling on the 7 rounds being arbitrary HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH SHOTGUNS..... SHOCKER

And then I posted this comment right after the one above



But then I actually looked up the penal code to make sure I was giving correct information on the subject I was talking about (maybe if you can't figure out what's being talked about then you shouldn't comment)



Now why would I make that comment.. oh wait I know, because just above it I said that the state never updated the penal code for the court ruling to allow for 10 round magazines but guess what they did MUCH WOW

But then some Jack ass decided to write this stupid ass useless comment



oh wait here is another quote from me, guess what the penal code used to say instead of ten... you guessed it... seven.. but since it now says ten instead of seven that would be what we call an UPDATE...



Oh hey let's look at the other part of your stupid ass comment to me



I know it may be difficult, reading comprehension and all, and there is a whole lot going on and you probably can't follow along.. but we'll look at atleast 2 of my posts where I told you my one comment about updating the law had nothing to do with shotguns.. or again if that is to difficult for you, which I 100% expect it to be, just let me know and I can try and break it down EVEN simpler for you

 

[C3D]

" 7 round limit was tossed out for handguns and rifle magazines, and nothing was said about shotgun tubular magazines "

"Also even if you look up the penal law for magazines it will still say 7 rounds,

The state never amended that laws to comply with the court ruling "

" Never mind hmm looks like the law may have been updated to 10 rounds "




Your posts are models of clarity and so I've excerpted them above to indicate why your writing leads the reader to the opposite conclusion from what you intend. Certainly nobody appreciates your tone and your perjoratives in a neutral discussion regarding law.

But to point out why your posts are mistaken, other than the obvious where you use the term "magazine" interchangeably without context, the relevant law as written is not a magazine restriction, it's a shotgun restriction. The word "tubular magazine" does not exist in the Penal Code with respect to shotguns, only a "fixed magazine capacity". 10 round detachable shotgun magazines are legal (although a shotgun that accepts one is not unless registered per SAFE).

When reading the law and then trying to describe it, the precise use of the language and terms of the statute is important.

 

[Bustedknees]

Send it to an FFL who is willing to make the tube seven and you are all set. If you want to make it permanent the tube could be cut and then re-threaded for the end cap.

If I recall if the SLP is brand new it should come with a plug for the tube. Not sure if that has changed over the years.

I don't think most ffl's want any kind of headache or trouble for a twenty dollar transfer fee. But that was my thought too. Simply remove the tube and leave it the box, then do the transfer.

 

[Edwardteach72]

" 7 round limit was tossed out for handguns and rifle magazines, and nothing was said about shotgun tubular magazines "

"Also even if you look up the penal law for magazines it will still say 7 rounds,

The state never amended that laws to comply with the court ruling "

" Never mind hmm looks like the law may have been updated to 10 rounds "




Your posts are models of clarity and so I've excerpted them above to indicate why your writing leads the reader to the opposite conclusion from what you intend. Certainly nobody appreciates your tone and your perjoratives in a neutral discussion regarding law.

But to point out why you're posts are mistaken, other than the obvious where you use the term "magazine" interchangeably without context, the relevant law as written is not a magazine restriction, it's a shotgun restriction. The word "tubular magazine" does not exist in the Penal Code with respect to shotguns, only a "fixed magazine capacity". 10 round detachable shotgun magazines are legal (although a shotgun that accepts one is not unless registered per SAFE).

When reading the law and then trying to describe it, the precise use of the language and terms of the statute is important.

Is the quote function to difficult for you to use, I figured hitting a quote button would be less difficult than reading but you have proven that to be wrong

 

[C3D]

Is the quote function to difficult for you to use, I figured hitting a quote button would be less difficult than reading but you have proven that to be wrong

I was just quoting your response to keep you from editing it. I won't be returning to this thread.

 

[Celt]

Yeah, good luck with that but I like the way you're thinking...

Factory semi auto benellis come with a plastic dowel to limit the tube capacity for hunting, i imagine this has been legally accepted since this is how its done to limit tube capacity and ive never read or heard otherwise. But this is ny so you never know.

 

[Edwardteach72]

I was just quoting your response to keep you from editing it. I won't be returning to this thread.

Lmfao why would i edit anything???

 

[Edwardteach72]

Even if I did edit something... guess what it would show

Just like here when you edited your comment

 

[Gonzobird]

Another post that a member posted with a serious question that could help other members as well which has been derailed once again...

 

[Edwardteach72]

Another post that a member posted with a serious question that could help other members as well which has been derailed once again...

Yuup

It's a shame that I posted even corrected my post

And then some other member decided they want to just ramble about something I never commented about and can't just be like oh fuck my bad I miss read what you said and then just carry the fuck on

***edit*** Or idk since this isn't involving you,... carry on yourself

 

[cgrutt]

Factory semi autos benellis come with a plastic dowel to limit the tube capacity for hunting, i imagine this has been legally accepted since this is how its done to limit tube capacity and ive never read or heard otherwise. But this is ny so you never know.

I was responding to the mini shells comment believe dowel is GTG for hunting tube still can't hold 8 or more. My m4 came from factory with 5 round tube bought aftermarket to make it 7.

 

[SuffolkArms]

Factory semi autos benellis come with a plastic dowel to limit the tube capacity for hunting, i imagine this has been legally accepted since this is how its done to limit tube capacity and ive never read or heard otherwise. But this is ny so you never know.

This sort of brings up an interesting point. By the letter of the SAFE Act magazines that can be readily restored to accept over 10 rounds are considered high capacity ammunition feeding devices. Being that there is no “readily restored” language for the assault shotgun definition, it seems to me that the bar is technically lower for what it would take to convert a shotgun’s capacity to less than 7 rounds.

 

[Bustedknees]

Well the FN is out for me, currently bids are at $1475 with 20 hours left. I'd rather have the Beretta Comp at that price.
I damn well knew Coumo and his attorney general wouldn't show up here and give me an answer.. I know the courts have made certain rulings on mag limits. Pistols and rifles are sold wide open with ten rounders so why not a shotgun ?? I asked here because a shotgun with 8 rounds is not a common thing, was hoping someone here has ran across this situation before. I also knew I'd get more than a few different answers and opinions. It's just another f$%king stupid NY SAFE ACT grey area, Like all others it depends on what dealer will transfer it, what cop will see it, what Judge will find it legal or not.. And that is the true pissing match.. Thanks for all the imput ..