Virginia cops pepper-sprayed Black and Latino Army officer who had hands raised during traffic stop, video shows
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holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Its the same thing.
Toecutter
.308 Win
I'd clarify that statement ; a cop has the authority to take your life if you are threatening his or someone else's life.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
I dont see how its different.
Toecutter
.308 Win
He doesn't have authority for refusing to get out of a car. But yes anyone can use deadly force in the right situation.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Thats correct.
An officer, or anyone can use any reasonable force to stop the threat. There is no step by step use of the Force Continuum.
No standard guidelines. Example, about a year ago, a piss bum, homeless guy swung a bat at an officer in Buffalo, swung a few times, hitting her once; she shot him. That was the force that she thought she needed to use.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
You weren't taught the use of the Force Continuum? or are you saying you dont have to use it step by step?
Wrong. Cops and everyday citizens do have the authority to take a life, at least here in NY. It is spelled out clearly in Article 35.
Toecutter
.308 Win
I'd say swinging a bat at a cop is a situation where shooting would be justified.
Jsmegs77
.308 Win
A police officer has the legal authority to escalate following use of force protocols. I don’t think anyone here is arguing that point necessarily. My objection is more to the flat statement that a police officer has the legal authority to kill you. That statement on its own is not correct.
The ending of a life is a collateral circumstance to effecting an arrest, where the arrest is resisted with the use of deadly force. In an escalation the officer is not likely to be culpable, in most cases, for the death of the suspect who resisted with deadly force, but this does still not equate to a legal authority to kill.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Your still wrong.
Jsmegs77
.308 Win
That is still an escalation in response, is it not?
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
could be justified. I may not shoot a 15 year old kid swinging a bat , even though I may be justified.
I was instructed on the continuum. It has been updated over the years.
It is a non stepped circle...
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Ok, yes it doesnt require that you follow the steps in any order.
Anyone getting a bat swung at them is worthy of self protection.
Swing a bat at me and you are dead. On or out of work; uniform or not.
Article 35 and the Justification of the Use of Force is for all of us!
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
I think you may have misunderstood what I said when I said they have the authority to take your life. It wasnt meant they can take your life under any condition. It was presumed that it would be a lethal, or perceived lethal encounter.
Toecutter
.308 Win
My BIL was in that exact situation, think the kid was 16 . He was retired saw some kid threatening another kid with a bat. He got out of his car drew his gun told the kid to drop the bat, kid advanced on him and he put a round right by his ear, kid dropped the bat and started crying. Yeah he shouldnt fire warning shots but he said if he didn't stop he would have dropped him with the next one.
Jsmegs77
.308 Win
That is indeed what I was responding to. I have met a not insignificant number of people who do believe in a James Bond style “license to kill”, and reacted accordingly.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
I did not intend it that way.
spat
.950 JDJ
They are not allowed to use *lethal* force to affect an arrest outside of some very specific circumstances (which I believe non LEOs are also allowed to do).
A missing license plate or uncooperative driver are not those circumstances.
You cannot just shoot the guy for disrespecting your authority no matter how much you want to.
Unbuckle, open door, hands are not in view.
Hell one time I was handcuffed against the car and the turd was yelling feet back, they couldn't go back further he was pinning me against the car. I respectfully told him this and at that point he need me in the balls then slammed me face first into the sidewalk, jumped on my back, ground my face into the sidewalk, at this point I did say take the cuffs of fat boy and I'll f you up man to man! He responded oh resisting arrest! Ended up with resisting arrest and obstruction of justice.
Can anyone see why I was even handcuffed? No. Wasn't breaking any laws.
So not a big cop fanboy here.
Hell one time I was handcuffed against the car and the turd was yelling feet back, they couldn't go back further he was pinning me against the car. I respectfully told him this and at that point he need me in the balls then slammed me face first into the sidewalk, jumped on my back, ground my face into the sidewalk, at this point I did say take the cuffs of fat boy and I'll f you up man to man! He responded oh resisting arrest! Ended up with resisting arrest and obstruction of justice.
Can anyone see why I was even handcuffed? No. Wasn't breaking any laws.
So not a big cop fanboy here.
spat
.950 JDJ
Bat = deadly weapon.
The law makes no distinction between a "somewhat deadly" weapon like a bat, and a "very deadly" weapon like a gun.
It's either deadly or not.
The only difference between a gun and a bat is what range you can consider them a threat at.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Thats correct.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Had my ass kicked by cops a couple times when I was a yute. Then I became a LEO, and was very lenient about grabbing someone
spat
.950 JDJ
Not an escalation. A simple response.
If someone attacks you with deadly force, you may respond immediately with deadly force. You do not have to climb the ladder by asking him nicely to stop first.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
No plates? 
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
This has become jerky.
Robin
Robin