Private Ammo Sales…. (background checks are NOT needed for private transfers)

Nontypical

Nontypical

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I posted this on another forum since the topic of background checks for private transfers keeps coming up and I figured that I’d start it’s own thread here to discuss if needed.
I just called the troopers at 1-855-GUN-LAWS.
He said that background checks are ONLY required if I was selling my ammunition commercially.
I would need to register with NYS as a seller of ammunition ONLY if I was selling ammunition commercially.
If I were to sell or give ammunition to someone while we were goose hunting, a background check is not required.
If I sold ammunition to a friend, a background check is not required.

Then he stated that even if I sold ammunition at a garage sale, a background check still is not required.

He actually started to chuckle as I asked each question…
 
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Nontypical said:
I posted this on another forum since the topic of background checks for private transfers keeps coming up and I figured that I’d start it’s own thread here to discuss if needed.
I just called the troopers at 1-855-GUN-LAWS.
He said that background checks are ONLY required if I was selling my ammunition commercially.
I would need to register with NYS as a seller of ammunition ONLY if I was selling ammunition commercially.
If I were to sell or give ammunition to someone while we were goose hunting, a background check is not required.
If I sold ammunition to a friend, a background check is not required.

Then he stated that even if I sold ammunition at a garage sale, a background check still is not required.

He actually started to chuckle as I asked each question…
Click to expand...
The trooper probably was on here watching the ongoing saga , that's why he was chuckling .
 
Nontypical

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4WHLDRFTN said:
I bet if someone called and a different trooper answered, there'd be a different answer. :idk:
Click to expand...
Go ahead and make the call. That’s why I posted the number. I sent an email early this morning and received a response after I called stating that as long as I wasn’t in business I could sell my personal surplus of ammunition privately without requiring a background check.
 
Saltwater60

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so this is very interesting. I noticed they have changed the wording in the site about being a registered seller of ammunition and background checks for ammunition.
I am 100% sure it used to say engaged in the business of selling ammunition, but now it says commercial sale.
The OP is 100% correct that if you look up the definition of commercial sale it is not a private sale. It’s business to consumer or business to business.
Again I am 100% sure it used to say engaged in the sale not commercial sales.
It also used to say any person selling ammunition needs to register as a seller of ammunition. Glad to see this is cleared up.
gunsafety.ny.gov

Ammunition Registration

gunsafety.ny.gov gunsafety.ny.gov
 
Darth

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Bustedknees said:
People tend to exaggerate existing laws in fear of breaking all the bullshit laws on the books.
There was someone on here recently who would not sell their ammo without a background check.
Click to expand...
I strongly support naming and shaming those types.

We deal with enough real laws, last thing we need is such "friends. "


For example, if you've ever heard " NY has no castle doctrine, you shoot them here and it's life in prison!", you've just dealt with a FUD.

Same with "I can't sell you 9mm without a pistol permit. "

3 worst people to ask about gun laws: Cops, Gun Store Owners and "this one guy i know (bonus if he was IN THE MARINES!!!)
 
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Saltwater60 said:
so this is very interesting. I noticed they have changed the wording in the site about being a registered seller of ammunition and background checks for ammunition.
I am 100% sure it used to say engaged in the business of selling ammunition, but now it says commercial sale.
The OP is 100% correct that if you look up the definition of commercial sale it is not a private sale. It’s business to consumer or business to business.
Again I am 100% sure it used to say engaged in the sale not commercial sales.
It also used to say any person selling ammunition needs to register as a seller of ammunition. Glad to see this is cleared up.
gunsafety.ny.gov

Ammunition Registration

gunsafety.ny.gov gunsafety.ny.gov
Click to expand...
It did use to say "Egnaged in the sale of ammunition".
 
Saltwater60

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Nontypical said:
Using the wayback machine to see old versions of the website, nothing has changed with the wording in at least the last 2 years. Here is a screenshot from 1/28/24. Just saying.
Also, no changes have been made to 265.24

Ammunition Registration
View attachment 278300
Click to expand...
It said somewhere about engaged in the business of selling ammo somewhere in that mix. Either about being an ammo seller or for doing the background check. I’m sure of it. I looked up what engaged in the sale meant when reading that somewhere. It was certainly on the government website as well it was not an article I read somewhere.
 
Nontypical

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That’s fine. It just bothers me when someone says that they are 100% sure of something, and they are incorrect. Thats how things get misinterpreted. We have been having this discussion for 2 years now. Let’s put this to rest. Private sales are private, and they DO NOT require a background check. Let’s not push the rules and try to run a run an illegal business by selling as much ammo as possible by loading up your trunk in PA to flip it. But for the average person who has some surplus to sell, it is perfectly legal. I missed out on 2 very good deals recently, and it bothers me when people are incorrectly informed. For me, it’s not about the cost of a background check, it’s about the principle. I’m very well stocked and a trip to PA is out of the question where I live. I just try to buy secondhand when possible to replenish what I shoot.
So who has some 40 or 357Sig that they don’t need?
 
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Bustedknees

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Now that this matter is forum cleared and legal,,, Can I leave my guns to my family without background checks?
 
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Saltwater60

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Nontypical said:
That’s fine. It just bothers me when someone says that they are 100% sure of something, and they are incorrect. Thats how things get misinterpreted. We have been having this discussion for 2 years now. Let’s put this to rest. Private sales are private, and they DO NOT require a background check. Let’s not push the rules and try to run a run an illegal business by selling as much ammo as possible by loading up your trunk in PA to flip it. But for the average person who has some surplus to sell, it is perfectly legal. I missed out on 2 very good deals recently, and it bothers me when people are incorrectly informed. For me, it’s not about the cost of a background check, it’s about the principle. I’m very well stocked and a trip to PA is out of the question where I live. I just try to buy secondhand when possible to replenish what I shoot.
So who has some 40 or 357Sig that they don’t need?
Click to expand...
I’m 100% sure the text of one of the government website said you needed a background check or to register as a seller of ammo if you were engaged in the business of selling ammo. If I remember correctly it was on the CCIA breakdown page/FAQ area. I’m sure there is a screenshot of it somewhere where on here or another forum I’m part of.
The problem is if I search ammo, background check, or business there will be tons of threads that come up. Maybe I can find it and maybe I can’t. I didn’t just come up with that term on my own.
It just so happens that I found it. In fact it is in NYS penal code 265 subsection 24. It defines a seller of ammunition as any person, firm, or corporation engaged in the business of selling ammo. It’s odd that they say any person engaged in the business of selling ammo because that makes it seem like any person not business. When I looked back then I could not find a concrete definition of what engaged in the business of meant legally in NYS. Commercial sale was defined, but not engaged in the business of.
Interestingly enough as of 2024 it appears that NYS took the federal sedition of engaged in the business of selling firearms and weapons and it does exclude hobbyists. To me this makes it clear now that we are good to sell it privately without a background check. Screenshot is below.
Link to what NUS has adopted as of 2024. Likely after the post I made below or it wasn’t readily available for viewing at that time.

Engaged in the Business [Firearms]: Legal Insights & Definitions | US Legal Forms

Discover the legal definition of Engaged in the Business [Firearms]. Understand the distinctions for manufacturers, dealers, and importers.
legal-resources.uslegalforms.com legal-resources.uslegalforms.com
attached below is the post and I’ll attach a link to the penal code and look at subsection 24. Below is also a screenshot of the subsection.

NYS Open Legislation | NYSenate.gov

www.nysenate.gov www.nysenate.gov
 

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