Homeowner shoots a squatter in Oklahoma and is now facing manslaughter charges

Saltwater60

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All bad for the good guy, but I do t think it should be. Moron said he didn’t feel threatened so not good for him. I do not think I would vote to convict him.

gunsamerica.com

Homeowner Shoots Alleged Squatter, Now Faces Manslaughter Charge

A case out of Oklahoma is raising uncomfortable questions about property rights, self-defense, and where the law draws the line when homeowners confront squatters.
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Saltwater60

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TEOTWAWKI inc. said:
squatters should have no rights. Enter my property at your own risk.
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Agreed, you are breaking and entering. I get where they may make the distinction it may not be an accused dwelling but what makes it not occupied? If I run errands for 4 hours or go away for a weekend, how about a week or two? It’s this man’s property and what if he was going to rent it out next week? I don’t like that he’s charged in this at all.
 
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Saltwater60 said:
Agreed, you are breaking and entering. I get where they may make the distinction it may not be an accused dwelling but what makes it not occupied? If I run errands for 4 hours or go away for a weekend, how about a week or two? It’s this man’s property and what if he was going to rent it out next week? I don’t like that he’s charged in this at all.
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I'm guessing where he actually fucked up was in calling the police...
 
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He will be more than fine...

Oklahoma self-defense laws allow the use of lawful force, including deadly force, if you reasonably believe it is necessary to prevent death, great bodily harm, or a forcible felony. The state includes robust "Stand Your Ground" and "Castle Doctrine" protections with no duty to retreat.

Castle Doctrine: You are legally presumed to have a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm if you use deadly force against an unlawful intruder in your home, business, or occupied vehicle.

Defense of Others: You may use the same level of force to protect another person who is facing an imminent threat or unlawful attack.
 
Saltwater60

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GOPerfect said:
He will be more than fine...

Oklahoma self-defense laws allow the use of lawful force, including deadly force, if you reasonably believe it is necessary to prevent death, great bodily harm, or a forcible felony. The state includes robust "Stand Your Ground" and "Castle Doctrine" protections with no duty to retreat.

Castle Doctrine: You are legally presumed to have a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm if you use deadly force against an unlawful intruder in your home, business, or occupied vehicle.

Defense of Others: You may use the same level of force to protect another person who is facing an imminent threat or unlawful attack.
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We will see. The article states he told the cops he did not fear for his life and this property is abandoned, so therefore it’s not an occupied dwelling. Be interesting for sure.
Hopefully his daughter said she feared for her life.
 
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spat said:
Should be considered a home invasion, no matter how long they've been there.

If you *never* had permission to live there, managing to stay hidden for a few weeks shouldn't suddenly change that.
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My house in NY has been vacant since we moved to TN. The mortgage, tax bills, utility bills, and deed all still say it's mine. Just because I haven't "lived" there in a few years doesn't give anyone else a right to occupy it. I could wake up tomorrow and decide to go there. I'm not calling the police if someone is inside when I get there.
 
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Saltwater60 said:
We will see. The article states he told the cops he did not fear for his life and this property is abandoned, so therefore it’s not an occupied dwelling. Be interesting for sure.
Hopefully his daughter said she feared for her life.
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Sounds like his biggest mistake was running his mouth before talking to his lawyer.

It amazes me how many people can't get that simple thing through their head.
 
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spat said:
Should be considered a home invasion, no matter how long they've been there.

If you *never* had permission to live there, managing to stay hidden for a few weeks shouldn't suddenly change that.
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Agreed, but the guy didn't help his case any by saying he didn't feel threatened.

Never talk to cops without legal counsel present. Only thing to do is provide ID per state law, tell them you are invoking your right to remain silent, and that you demand an attorney. Then you shut the fuck up.
 
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Meanwhile, in Tennessee...


SB1847

Bill Information - Tennessee General Assembly

View detailed bill information for the Tennessee General Assembly, including sponsors, summaries, amendments, action history, fiscal notes, and voting records.
wapp.capitol.tn.gov

Allowing deadly force to protect property
SB1847/HB1802 allows the use of deadly force to protect property in certain situations.


Under the law, property owners would be allowed to use deadly force to prevent trespassing, arson, damage to property, burglary, theft, robbery or aggravated cruelty to animals.

The legislation does not allow the use of deadly force against someone who is facing away from the property owner.
 
Saltwater60

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TEOTWAWKI inc. said:
Meanwhile, in Tennessee...


SB1847

Bill Information - Tennessee General Assembly

View detailed bill information for the Tennessee General Assembly, including sponsors, summaries, amendments, action history, fiscal notes, and voting records.
wapp.capitol.tn.gov

Allowing deadly force to protect property
SB1847/HB1802 allows the use of deadly force to protect property in certain situations.


Under the law, property owners would be allowed to use deadly force to prevent trespassing, arson, damage to property, burglary, theft, robbery or aggravated cruelty to animals.

The legislation does not allow the use of deadly force against someone who is facing away from the property owner.
Click to expand...
This is sketchy. If they turn their back you can’t shoot them. That’s a bit of a trap IMO and will get many people caught in legal trouble.
 
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Saltwater60 said:
This is sketchy. If they turn their back you can’t shoot them. That’s a bit of a trap IMO and will get many people caught in legal trouble.
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If their back is to you, the assumption is probably that they are leaving or not a threat. You can't shoot them (legally) to stop them from getting away, but you can now use deadly force to terminate a trespass. I don't recall any other state having a law with that low of a standard for using deadly force.
 
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As others have mentioned, his biggest mistake was saying he didn't feel threatened. One of the main points of "stand your ground" is the THREAT of death or great bodily injury.
In a SYG state it shouldn't matter if the property owner lived there or not. The entire point of SYG is you can stand your ground, in any location you have permission to be.
Hopefully this guy gets a good lawyer who knows self defense law. Many inexperienced lawyers will just want to plea out with a felony assault charge. A good self defense lawyer will drag out discovery and jury choice as long as possible, then get an acquittal with a sympathetic jury.
But the cost, and the threat of 20 to life can make people plea pretty quickly.
But the most important thing here will be the REAL story. As we know, these stories tend to become more clear with time.
Maybe the bad guy lunged, maybe the shooter shot the dude when the guy had his hands up surrendering.
Then there will be the huge payday in the civil case.
Maybe its just better to escort the people out at gunpoint. That way its a little menacing charge maybe.
 
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TEOTWAWKI inc. said:
If their back is to you, the assumption is probably that they are leaving or not a threat. You can't shoot them (legally) to stop them from getting away, but you can now use deadly force to terminate a trespass. I don't recall any other state having a law with that low of a standard for using deadly force.
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I get the thinking. I’m just thinking it will be a mess in the end. People will get pissed the first time a 14 year old gets shot, then someone will shoot someone in the back or then many people shot will be claiming it was in the back. I could just see this being a disaster even if following the law.
 
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Saltwater60 said:
I get the thinking. I’m just thinking it will be a mess in the end. People will get pissed the first time a 14 year old gets shot, then someone will shoot someone in the back or then many people shot will be claiming it was in the back. I could just see this being a disaster even if following the law.
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You can't really just make up being shot in the back.

I'm sure some trigger happy idiots will create challenges to the law, but in the end, all the crimes this law lists should decrease pretty quick. Either through fear or attrition.
 
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TEOTWAWKI inc. said:
You can't really just make up being shot in the back.

I'm sure some trigger happy idiots will create challenges to the law, but in the end, all the crimes this law lists should decrease pretty quick. Either through fear or attrition.
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People can say anything and will. I can see it now with the family saying my good boy son was shot in the back and rioting as a result. We’ve seen it before.
 
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