School me on Data Centers

CaseHardened said:

First: I read, quite recently, that most opposition to American Data Centers is fueled by China. Who wishes to command a strong lead in this Military Technology.

Cons:
They use electricity. If this was the impetus behind a resurgence in Nuclear Power - GREAT !
They use water. My car uses water. A few gallons can last years. Car washes use water. They filter and recycle it. And even Nuclear Power uses water, pumped though cooling towers. Do Data Centers have some magical need for "new" water?

So what is reality?

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They use power, but not anywhere near as much as electric cars.

The people who are pushing one and opposing the other and claim "muh electricity prices" are either dishonest or just useful idiots.

They use water. About like golf courses. Way less than almond orchards. Some places it doesn't make sense. But, i'll tell you, they've got an awful lot of golf courses and orchards out here in the desert, so unless you were pitching about that water loss, this also seems disingenuous.

To be fair, there *are* some people who were complaining about EV power use and golf course and orchard water use. Those people can complain about datacenter consumption without being hypocrites.

The rest, just useful idiots, or Chinese agents.

CaseHardened said:

First: I read, quite recently, that most opposition to American Data Centers is fueled by China.

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Don't believe it.
This is a straw man attempt to negate the legitimate concerns of people who would end up living next to one of these mammoth industrial complexes.
The majority of people opposed have no ties to China. And the concerns they raise are not because of something they read on CNN, but because of things they have observed or that others have directly observed.

CaseHardened said:

They use electricity. If this was the impetus behind a resurgence in Nuclear Power - GREAT !

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Except the grid itself is a weak point. And the electrical demand of these places would strain an already shaky grid and result in power loss.

CaseHardened said:

They use water. My car uses water. A few gallons can last years. Car washes use water. They filter and recycle it. And even Nuclear Power uses water, pumped though cooling towers. Do Data Centers have some magical need for "new" water?

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They claim to recycle and be a "closed loop" system. Yet actual data centers have been found to be drawing from local water supplies and aquafers to the detriment of the local communities. Their "closed loop" systems isn't so closed.

spat said:

They use water. About like golf courses.

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Apparently they can use considerably more water than golf courses or almond farms.
Like any technology company, or pretty much ANY company, they need to be monitored very closely to prevent abuse of resources.

CaseHardened said:

So what is reality?

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The reality is that they are an industrial complex. Not much different than an oil refinery, steel mill, solar complex, windmill farm, etc. They are huge sprawling complexes that gobble up power and possibly water, can cause an increase in the background noise of the area they are in as well as increasing the heat island around them. They need to be carefully placed where they will not impact people's home lives or cause environmental damage.
Right now, like solar "farms" they are being placed out in rural areas for better access to resources and, theoretically, fewer people to complain about them. they should be placed in areas specifically set aside for industrial stuff.

Grimscale said:

Don't believe it.
This is a straw man attempt to negate the legitimate concerns of people who would end up living next to one of these mammoth industrial complexes.
The majority of people opposed have no ties to China. And the concerns they raise are not because of something they read on CNN, but because of things they have observed or that others have directly observed.


Except the grid itself is a weak point. And the electrical demand of these places would strain an already shaky grid and result in power loss.


They claim to recycle and be a "closed loop" system. Yet actual data centers have been found to be drawing from local water supplies and aquafers to the detriment of the local communities. Their "closed loop" systems isn't so closed.


Apparently they can use considerably more water than golf courses or almond farms.
Like any technology company, or pretty much ANY company, they need to be monitored very closely to prevent abuse of resources.


The reality is that they are an industrial complex. Not much different than an oil refinery, steel mill, solar complex, windmill farm, etc. They are huge sprawling complexes that gobble up power and possibly water, can cause an increase in the background noise of the area they are in as well as increasing the heat island around them. They need to be carefully placed where they will not impact people's home lives or cause environmental damage.
Right now, like solar "farms" they are being placed out in rural areas for better access to resources and, theoretically, fewer people to complain about them. they should be placed in areas specifically set aside for industrial stuff.

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An almond farm uses about a gallon of water *per almond*. They use more than a datacenter.

A golf course can use 300,000 gals per day. About the same as a mid sized datacenter.

Not an answer to your question, but i watch this guy every business day. He will school you on AI and data centers.

https://www.youtube.com/@NobodySpecialFinance

Grimscale said:

They claim to recycle and be a "closed loop" system. Yet actual data centers have been found to be drawing from local water supplies and aquafers to the detriment of the local communities. Their "closed loop" systems isn't so closed.

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They use a lot of water precisely because they aren't closed loop. Typical data center cooling is evaporative based. Not exactly the same, but think giant swamp cooler in principle.