School me on Data Centers

[CaseHardened]

First: I read, quite recently, that most opposition to American Data Centers is fueled by China. Who wishes to command a strong lead in this Military Technology.

Cons:
They use electricity. If this was the impetus behind a resurgence in Nuclear Power - GREAT !
They use water. My car uses water. A few gallons can last years. Car washes use water. They filter and recycle it. And even Nuclear Power uses water, pumped though cooling towers. Do Data Centers have some magical need for "new" water?

So what is reality?

 

[CaseHardened]

And when will Jane Fonda release a film about Data Centers:

The China Syndrome - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Scuttling Nuclear Power for over half a century.

 

[CaseHardened]

Oh, I am really showing my age (300 years and still going).

Hanoi Jane ?

Our modern messiah is a child:

 

[spat]

First: I read, quite recently, that most opposition to American Data Centers is fueled by China. Who wishes to command a strong lead in this Military Technology.

Cons:
They use electricity. If this was the impetus behind a resurgence in Nuclear Power - GREAT !
They use water. My car uses water. A few gallons can last years. Car washes use water. They filter and recycle it. And even Nuclear Power uses water, pumped though cooling towers. Do Data Centers have some magical need for "new" water?

So what is reality?

They use power, but not anywhere near as much as electric cars.

The people who are pushing one and opposing the other and claim "muh electricity prices" are either dishonest or just useful idiots.

They use water. About like golf courses. Way less than almond orchards. Some places it doesn't make sense. But, i'll tell you, they've got an awful lot of golf courses and orchards out here in the desert, so unless you were pitching about that water loss, this also seems disingenuous.

To be fair, there *are* some people who were complaining about EV power use and golf course and orchard water use. Those people can complain about datacenter consumption without being hypocrites.

The rest, just useful idiots, or Chinese agents.

 

[Grimscale]

First: I read, quite recently, that most opposition to American Data Centers is fueled by China.

Don't believe it.
This is a straw man attempt to negate the legitimate concerns of people who would end up living next to one of these mammoth industrial complexes.
The majority of people opposed have no ties to China. And the concerns they raise are not because of something they read on CNN, but because of things they have observed or that others have directly observed.

They use electricity. If this was the impetus behind a resurgence in Nuclear Power - GREAT !

Except the grid itself is a weak point. And the electrical demand of these places would strain an already shaky grid and result in power loss.

They use water. My car uses water. A few gallons can last years. Car washes use water. They filter and recycle it. And even Nuclear Power uses water, pumped though cooling towers. Do Data Centers have some magical need for "new" water?

They claim to recycle and be a "closed loop" system. Yet actual data centers have been found to be drawing from local water supplies and aquafers to the detriment of the local communities. Their "closed loop" systems isn't so closed.

They use water. About like golf courses.

Apparently they can use considerably more water than golf courses or almond farms.
Like any technology company, or pretty much ANY company, they need to be monitored very closely to prevent abuse of resources.

So what is reality?

The reality is that they are an industrial complex. Not much different than an oil refinery, steel mill, solar complex, windmill farm, etc. They are huge sprawling complexes that gobble up power and possibly water, can cause an increase in the background noise of the area they are in as well as increasing the heat island around them. They need to be carefully placed where they will not impact people's home lives or cause environmental damage.
Right now, like solar "farms" they are being placed out in rural areas for better access to resources and, theoretically, fewer people to complain about them. they should be placed in areas specifically set aside for industrial stuff.

 

[spat]

Don't believe it.
This is a straw man attempt to negate the legitimate concerns of people who would end up living next to one of these mammoth industrial complexes.
The majority of people opposed have no ties to China. And the concerns they raise are not because of something they read on CNN, but because of things they have observed or that others have directly observed.


Except the grid itself is a weak point. And the electrical demand of these places would strain an already shaky grid and result in power loss.


They claim to recycle and be a "closed loop" system. Yet actual data centers have been found to be drawing from local water supplies and aquafers to the detriment of the local communities. Their "closed loop" systems isn't so closed.


Apparently they can use considerably more water than golf courses or almond farms.
Like any technology company, or pretty much ANY company, they need to be monitored very closely to prevent abuse of resources.


The reality is that they are an industrial complex. Not much different than an oil refinery, steel mill, solar complex, windmill farm, etc. They are huge sprawling complexes that gobble up power and possibly water, can cause an increase in the background noise of the area they are in as well as increasing the heat island around them. They need to be carefully placed where they will not impact people's home lives or cause environmental damage.
Right now, like solar "farms" they are being placed out in rural areas for better access to resources and, theoretically, fewer people to complain about them. they should be placed in areas specifically set aside for industrial stuff.

An almond farm uses about a gallon of water *per almond*. They use more than a datacenter.

A golf course can use 300,000 gals per day. About the same as a mid sized datacenter.

 

[Plater1]

Not an answer to your question, but i watch this guy every business day. He will school you on AI and data centers.

https://www.youtube.com/@NobodySpecialFinance

 

[Defilade]

View attachment 83317f54b5a395865dac4a76c10e4d77.mp4

 

[SonOfSun]

They claim to recycle and be a "closed loop" system. Yet actual data centers have been found to be drawing from local water supplies and aquafers to the detriment of the local communities. Their "closed loop" systems isn't so closed.

They use a lot of water precisely because they aren't closed loop. Typical data center cooling is evaporative based. Not exactly the same, but think giant swamp cooler in principle.

 

[CaseHardened]

I repeat myself:

Above all else, Data Centers are Military Facilities.

I realize rhe American Deep State will use them against me.

But I'd rather take my chances with them than with Chicom Data Centers.

 

[livingston]

Barack Obama Tells Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries to Organize the AI Control Bill for #1 Priority Passage Following the Midterm Elections​

Just as the communists planned the takeover of healthcare as their #1 legislative priority in 2008, so too are the same people now organizing the #1 priority for 2027. This time it’s AI.​

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Donald-Trump-and-Elon-Musk-2.jpg
BACKGROUND CONTEXT – In the runup to the 2024 election, I was having a lengthy discussion with a CEO of a large tech company about the alignment of Silicon Valley the MAGA election of Donald Trump.
The CEO said to me, “don’t be fooled; as soon as they get this upcoming Artificial Intelligence (AI) system fully developed, big tech will immediately jump back to supporting the Democrats.”
The reason was simple. Silicon Valley operates on a business plan where only a few, elite trillionaire tech companies control things. In order to secure their overwhelming market share, they will need regulation to shut down competition. Those same trillionaires will then write the regulations and attain market dominance. Everything else between now and that moment when they claim “safety and security” is chaff and countermeasures.
It is with that context that CTH has reviewed the rise of the big AI developers and also reviewed the recent claims by those same trillionaires about the need for urgent and immediate AI regulation. Their primary reasoning, “safety and security.”

NEW YORK TIMES – Former President Barack Obama warned during a recent private fund-raising event that artificial intelligence technology could be “dangerous” if not properly managed, as he implored Democrats to aggressively develop political and governing agendas to prioritize the issue in the coming years.
In his remarks on Thursday, which have not been previously reported, Mr. Obama urged Hakeem Jeffries, Democrat of New York and the House minority leader, to assemble a clear framework for a public conversation about A.I. policy, should Democrats win back the House in the midterm elections, according to a partial transcript provided by Mr. Obama’s office.
He also suggested that candidates running for president in 2028 ought to make A.I. one of their “central agendas” and “have a very clear plan” for responding to safety and economic concerns around the technology.

Barack Obama Tells Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries to Organize the AI Control Bill for #1 Priority Passage Following the Midterm Elections - The Last Refuge

Just as the communists planned the takeover of healthcare as their #1 legislative priority in 2008, so too are the same people now organizing the #1 priority for 2027. This time it’s AI. BACKGROUND CONTEXT – In the runup to the 2024 election, I was having a lengthy discussion with a CEO of a...

theconservativetreehouse.com

Barack Obama Tells Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries to Organize the AI Control Bill for #1 Priority Passage Following the Midterm Elections - The Last Refuge

Just as the communists planned the takeover of healthcare as their #1 legislative priority in 2008, so too are the same people now organizing the #1 priority for 2027. This time it’s AI. BACKGROUND CONTEXT – In the runup to the 2024 election, I was having a lengthy discussion with a CEO of a...

theconservativetreehouse.com

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/obama2.jpg

 

[livingston]

WATCH (prompted): Mike Steger connects Trump’s investments in steel, energy, nuclear power, AI, and manufacturing with a larger economic revival. He then examines warnings from former Anthropic researcher Jacob Coxon, Dario Amodei’s call to slow frontier AI development, Effective Altruism, and proposed federal restrictions on advanced AI. Mike argues that the real battle is over who will control artificial intelligence—and whether it will support American industry and human creativity or become concentrated within government and a few powerful institutions. ​

 

[MothMan]

SMR's, small modular reactors, are a likely power source for data centers and a whole lot of other energy needs. Small like they can fit on a trailer so easily transportable. Use different technology and methods than in the past, these are NOT your grandfathers 3 Mile Island reactors. There are a number of companies vying for the lead in this area besides the GE's of the world. Interested me so that I have looked at these companies as investment options.

Going Nuclear: A Guide to SMRs and Nuclear-Powered Data Centers

Small nuclear reactors could one day power data centers with clean energy, but challenges remain.

www.datacenterknowledge.com

 

[livingston]

Trump Rejects AI "Pause" As Obama Urges Democrats To Regulate It​

Update (1455ET): President Trump and former President Obama have now weighed in on the 'pause' - with Trump calling for full steam ahead, and Obama endorsing the pause so the government can regulate AI (good luck with that).
From the Irish Open in Doonbeg on Sunday, Trump dismissed Saturday's "pace the frontier" pile-on from Dario Amodei, Sam Altman, and Elon Musk. Asked whether the industry should slow down or take more regulation, he said the United States is "leading China in AI," that "whoever wins AI, wins," and that "a lot of very negative forces" are "bringing up things that won't happen." Guardrails were fine in theory. A pause was not.

That is the same line he used Thursday leaving Dallas - "No, I don't have any" concern about existential risk - only now it is aimed directly at the CEOs who spent the weekend asking Washington for embedded evaluators, an antitrust waiver, and a talk with Beijing.

Obama went the other way.
At a Thursday fundraiser in Manhattan, in remarks the New York Times published Sunday from a transcript his office released, he told House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries to make AI a governing issue if Democrats take the House. "Once you are speaker, I would strongly urge that the Democrats put together a framework for a very public conversation." Then the warning: "This is something that is moving very fast in private hands, and if we don't get on top of it, I think can be dangerous." Benefits too - drugs, clean energy - if they do. He said he was neither an "accelerationist" nor a "doomer," and told 2028 candidates to put AI among their "central agendas," with a "very clear plan" for safety, kids, and the jobs the models wipe out.
Jeffries, on cue: "President Obama is correct that decisive action must be taken on artificial intelligence... Republicans have abdicated their responsibility... We will not repeat their error."

Trump Rejects AI "Pause" As Obama Urges Democrats To Regulate It<!-- --> | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

There are 2 very different opinions here

1, data centers are evil and terrible. They are a nuisance and drain on the grid. They are ruining communities and increasing the costs of utilities and depleting water. They contribute to the developing techno surveillance state. AI will take our jobs, ruin our lives and kill us all.

And, the flip side

2, they are essential infrastructure and we need them ASAP to beat China in our race to AI supremacy because whoever wins that race will shape the world for the next century. It is a Manhattan project type scale and it's an existential crisis. China is using bot farms and trolls to generate "organic" US public outrage as a mechanism to use our free society against us to slow down our development to allow China to catch up.


And 3, there is perhaps shades of truth in both above positions.

 

[Saltwater60]

Don't believe it.
This is a straw man attempt to negate the legitimate concerns of people who would end up living next to one of these mammoth industrial complexes.
The majority of people opposed have no ties to China. And the concerns they raise are not because of something they read on CNN, but because of things they have observed or that others have directly observed.


Except the grid itself is a weak point. And the electrical demand of these places would strain an already shaky grid and result in power loss.


They claim to recycle and be a "closed loop" system. Yet actual data centers have been found to be drawing from local water supplies and aquafers to the detriment of the local communities. Their "closed loop" systems isn't so closed.


Apparently they can use considerably more water than golf courses or almond farms.
Like any technology company, or pretty much ANY company, they need to be monitored very closely to prevent abuse of resources.


The reality is that they are an industrial complex. Not much different than an oil refinery, steel mill, solar complex, windmill farm, etc. They are huge sprawling complexes that gobble up power and possibly water, can cause an increase in the background noise of the area they are in as well as increasing the heat island around them. They need to be carefully placed where they will not impact people's home lives or cause environmental damage.
Right now, like solar "farms" they are being placed out in rural areas for better access to resources and, theoretically, fewer people to complain about them. they should be placed in areas specifically set aside for industrial stuff.

I think the misinformation and hated is spurred on by China. I have heard some wild claims about AI data centers.
Background - they wanted to build one by me in an old industrial site. This site was used for steel coke and horribly contaminated. They were shutdown and sanctioned by multiple agencies for releasing benzene.
The site has been remediated and Connor be disturbed past a certain point because it was capped and not cleaned up. It is right on the Niagra River not close to peoples homes and in an industrial area. There is an asphalt company there and an oil refinery along with the GM engine plants, 3M plant, and a shuttered coal plant close by.
You should have heard everyone’s claims about how loud it is, how much electric it would use, how much water it would use. People even claimed you can hear an AI data center from 15 miles away. I did research and standing right next to them they are about 80-100 decibels outside. Inside they can be as loud as a plane taking off at 120-130 decibels. The inside decibels gets quoted a lot, but you don’t live in them. So I took the plane engine and ran with it. I asked people quoting this if they could hear the Buffalo airport planes taking off because I’m within a 15 mile drive from there. Of course we can’t.
Many data centers now are using closed loop cooling instead of evaporative cooling. Even if not many things around us use evaporative cooling and people don’t know it.
This site was perfect for one. Everyone fought it and it was squashed. Well maybe the next one will be in people’s backyards.
It makes sense to me China would want to win this race. If you don’t have data centers then businesses won’t want to come. China is trying to beat us economically before they take any further action. They want to weaken us so they can have our resources.
I completely understand your fear and comment on electric and demand. Keep in mind NYS has installed 100,000’s of acres of solar so either solar is horribly ineffective or we should be able to meet the demand for a few data centers. IMO this ties into the lie and support for China. China is getting rich off solar panels and their components.
To me in a way we are the puppets of China and the democrats are allowing their strings to be pulled.

 

[Defilade]

The so called BS talking point of we need to led the AI race is horseshit. We are the leader by far!!

 

[tirwin1]

 

[livingston]

Follow the Power: What David Sacks Got Right About the Anthropic Resignation​

On Tuesday evening, September 8, at 8:04 PM Eastern, an account on with almost no history posted a thread. Its author, Jacob Coxon, said he had resigned from Anthropic and that both his former employer and OpenAI were gambling with human lives in a race toward self-improving superintelligence. Within 24 hours, the thread had been viewed more than 123 million times. A US senator cited it within 15 hours, a governor within 16, and Elon Musk said he couldn't recall such a reception for a post from a new account with almost no prior activity.


https://x.com/hilbertspaess/status/2097476196791709843?s=20

Follow the Power: What David Sacks Got Right About the Anthropic Resignation

On Tuesday evening, September 8, at 8:04 PM Eastern, an account on with almost no history posted a thread.

newsletter.amuseonx.com

 

[livingston]

The 'Anti-AI' Panic Is Led by...AI Companies​

The 'Anti-AI' Panic Is Led by...AI Companies

AI companies push 'anti-AI' panic to seek regulation, limit competition, and secure financial bailouts.

hotair.com

The CEOs of OpenAI and Anthropic seized on Coxon's warnings, agreeing that everything must change; Democrats proposed legislation to ban "superintelligence" and jail anyone for up to 20 years for pursuing it, and both OpenAI and Anthropic argued for massive government regulations and...the hamstringing or outright banning of their competitors.

 

[spat]

There are 2 very different opinions here

1, data centers are evil and terrible. They are a nuisance and drain on the grid. They are ruining communities and increasing the costs of utilities and depleting water. They contribute to the developing techno surveillance state. AI will take our jobs, ruin our lives and kill us all.

And, the flip side

2, they are essential infrastructure and we need them ASAP to beat China in our race to AI supremacy because whoever wins that race will shape the world for the next century. It is a Manhattan project type scale and it's an existential crisis. China is using bot farms and trolls to generate "organic" US public outrage as a mechanism to use our free society against us to slow down our development to allow China to catch up.


And 3, there is perhaps shades of truth in both above positions.

They can absolutely both be true.

I think #1 is drastically exaggerated, but there is a nugget or truth there.

#2 is spot on.

 

[CaseHardened]

Barack Obama Tells Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries to Organize the AI Control Bill for #1 Priority Passage Following the Midterm Elections​

Just as the communists planned the takeover of healthcare as their #1 legislative priority in 2008, so too are the same people now organizing the #1 priority for 2027. This time it’s AI.​

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Donald-Trump-and-Elon-Musk-2.jpg
BACKGROUND CONTEXT – In the runup to the 2024 election, I was having a lengthy discussion with a CEO of a large tech company about the alignment of Silicon Valley the MAGA election of Donald Trump.
The CEO said to me, “don’t be fooled; as soon as they get this upcoming Artificial Intelligence (AI) system fully developed, big tech will immediately jump back to supporting the Democrats.”
The reason was simple. Silicon Valley operates on a business plan where only a few, elite trillionaire tech companies control things. In order to secure their overwhelming market share, they will need regulation to shut down competition. Those same trillionaires will then write the regulations and attain market dominance. Everything else between now and that moment when they claim “safety and security” is chaff and countermeasures.
It is with that context that CTH has reviewed the rise of the big AI developers and also reviewed the recent claims by those same trillionaires about the need for urgent and immediate AI regulation. Their primary reasoning, “safety and security.”

NEW YORK TIMES– Former President Barack Obama warned during a recent private fund-raising event that artificial intelligence technology could be “dangerous” if not properly managed, as he implored Democrats to aggressively develop political and governing agendas to prioritize the issue in the coming years.
In his remarks on Thursday, which have not been previously reported, Mr. Obama urged Hakeem Jeffries, Democrat of New York and the House minority leader, to assemble a clear framework for a public conversation about A.I. policy, should Democrats win back the House in the midterm elections, according to a partial transcript provided by Mr. Obama’s office.
He also suggested that candidates running for president in 2028 ought to make A.I. one of their “central agendas” and “have a very clear plan” for responding to safety and economic concerns around the technology.

Barack Obama Tells Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries to Organize the AI Control Bill for #1 Priority Passage Following the Midterm Elections - The Last Refuge

Just as the communists planned the takeover of healthcare as their #1 legislative priority in 2008, so too are the same people now organizing the #1 priority for 2027. This time it’s AI. BACKGROUND CONTEXT – In the runup to the 2024 election, I was having a lengthy discussion with a CEO of a...

theconservativetreehouse.com

Barack Obama Tells Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries to Organize the AI Control Bill for #1 Priority Passage Following the Midterm Elections - The Last Refuge

Just as the communists planned the takeover of healthcare as their #1 legislative priority in 2008, so too are the same people now organizing the #1 priority for 2027. This time it’s AI. BACKGROUND CONTEXT – In the runup to the 2024 election, I was having a lengthy discussion with a CEO of a...

theconservativetreehouse.com

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/obama2.jpg

Trump must go FULL LINCOLN.

 

[livingston]

 

[livingston]

President Trump Notes AI is Being Politicized – Danger Ahead​

President Trump notes on his Truth Social post how the AI development overall is becoming part of a political operation within the U.S. With President Obama, Elon Musk and Dario Amodei all requesting govt regulatory capture of the AI frontiers, President Trump notes he is opposed to their “conspiracy theory” schemes.
This cleaving was always going to happen. I wrote about it on Christmas Day 2024.
What happens next is anyone’s guess. However, the greatest likelihood is an AI driven ‘October Surprise.’

Right now, I would suggest that a fully function Automated-AI frontier virus has already been created. The gate of the targeted entity or system has already been compromised, and there is someone waiting for the just right moment to launch the AI virus to take control of the system.
The timing is the “October surprise” and the event itself will be highly public, defined as both a national security threat and public threat.
The malicious AI event will capture the attention of everyone; it may even include physical harm and will most certainly involve institutional damage.

Immediate reactive responses will be demanded of the private sector AI developers and big brother govt.
The frontier group know the vulnerabilities; the political group know how to optimize for greatest growth of govt. The rest of us are just waiting to find out who is the target. [Banking, social media, Finance systems, Transportation (airlines), Energy Grid, Defense or Communication networks.]
We have a few weeks before we see the triggering event deployed.

Barack Obama, Chuck Schumer, Elon Musk and Dario Amodei will say, “we warned,” and put blame on irresponsible Donald Trump and David Sacks.

President Trump Notes AI is Being Politicized - Danger Ahead - The Last Refuge

President Trump notes on his Truth Social post how the AI development overall is becoming part of a political operation within the U.S. With President Obama, Elon Musk and Dario Amodei all requesting govt regulatory capture of the AI frontiers, President Trump notes he is opposed to their...

theconservativetreehouse.com

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/Trump-Truth-AI-Guardrails.jpg

 

[livingston]

Data Center Madness

An interesting site about AI folks....

 

[livingston]

Folks
Take the prediction about an October surprise any way you want ... One thing is for certain ... Covid was man made and it killed how many people ? A million or millions of people died . There were o qualms about killing that many ... because of the virus we got paper ballots that most likely changed the election
They are trying to take out Trump any way they can ,,, No other president in history has undergone the disruptions to his agenda and policies . Liberals will try to win this next election at any cost.
Covid was the experiment ... A massive plan to see how far the government could control a population ... Every one get the shot . Businesses got shut down ... One could not even drive a car through a car wash . Dr. Fauci pulled the 6 ft rule out his ass . ... Just made it up...
They now have a blueprint ..... We were the mice in the lab ..... They know how you will react in a large scale emergency ... A crises of global proportions ... They now have had a few years to fine tune this next plan on the population. Think you will sneak over to see your grandparents ....When the government says no travel .... An awful lot of flock cameras have suddenly appeared on the highways . One example ...
Plan accordingly folks ... Hope I am wrong about everything I have just posted . ...

 

[fresch]

Only I, @Bigfoot, am too a pure blood, who didn't follow the stupid.
The flu was replaced with covid on death certs., auto deaths replaced with covid, stage four cancer replaced with covid (he was doing great last night but dead today - it was covid).
Yet the points on gov. Being corrupt are as always, the, of mice and men.

 

[CaseHardened]

Folks
Take the prediction about an October surprise any way you want ... One thing is for certain ... Covid was man made and it killed how many people ? A million or millions of people died . There were o qualms about killing that many ... because of the virus we got paper ballots that most likely changed the election
They are trying to take out Trump any way they can ,,, No other president in history has undergone the disruptions to his agenda and policies . Liberals will try to win this next election at any cost.
Covid was the experiment ... A massive plan to see how far the government could control a population ... Every one get the shot . Businesses got shut down ... One could not even drive a car through a car wash . Dr. Fauci pulled the 6 ft rule out his ass . ... Just made it up...
They now have a blueprint ..... We were the mice in the lab ..... They know how you will react in a large scale emergency ... A crises of global proportions ... They now have had a few years to fine tune this next plan on the population. Think you will sneak over to see your grandparents ....When the government says no travel .... An awful lot of flock cameras have suddenly appeared on the highways . One example ...
Plan accordingly folks ... Hope I am wrong about everything I have just posted . ...

You are 100% Correct. and I pray to God enough people understand the threat.

But you left out the enormous Economic Price of keeping the USA idle for two years.

Hundreds of thousands of small businesses extinguished. Bankruptcies. Suicides.

Permanent Inflation due to money simply being printed. And then Billlions stolen.

Our current situation makes the problems surrounding the American Civil War trivial in comparison.
Even the Condefederacy was 100% Loyal to the concept of America. And put citizens first.

But now we have tens of millions of foreigners with no loyalty, that drain the treasury. And vermin Americans (think Tim Walz) that enable it.

Our only possible solution is for President Trump to go FULL LINCOLN.

Without a temporary intrusion on our liberties, we will experience a complete and permanent elimination of them (as COVID proved).