This is INSANITY: Chinese communism survivor

Mosinitis · Oct 12, 2026

Zerex said:
Excess mortality under Joseph Stalin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Before the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the archival revelations, some historians estimated that the numbers killed by Stalin's regime were 20 million or higher..none of these were war related deaths.

"Excess Mortality", is the current DSA/Muslim Democratic term for killing dissidents...............that some died in gulags or just disappeared is echoed in Hillarys' "MAGA are just a basket of Deplorables", and

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/4241678-hillary-clinton-maga-cult-members-need-deprogrammin

Never trust a democrat as they ALL want you Stalinized.

The original claim by some "historians" was 61 million, that number was downsized to 20 million to be more believable, but even that was disproved long ago by examining Soviet archives. BTW, people were dying from famines and diseases in pre-Soviet Russia as well. It wasn't something that Stalin planned.

The archives have, as you said, made studying Stalinist repression far easier than in previous years. For example many cold war warrior (or people pushing a higher death toll in the tens of millions), like one Rummel, cited around 61 million deaths collectively in the USSR. However in the 1980's a group of historians called the revisionists, (most notably Getty and Wheatcroft), stated lower numbers than the infamous 20 million. Getty claimed about 1-2 million were killed under Stalin. Wheatcroft around 3 million. When the information from the archives came out, the revisionists found their claims to be more accurate. Getty found roughly 800,000 execution and and 1 million gulag deaths. This of course doesn't count undocumented executions such as the Katyn massacre, and the gulag deaths eventually went up to 1.2 million with more achives coming out, with the current consensus on the gulag and labor colonies now being 1.5-1.7 million deaths, averaging at 1.6 million deaths. Wheatcroft cites around a million "purposive shootings" and around two million deaths from deportations and gulags. The best material on this is Micheal Ellman's:"Soviet Repression statistics: some comments." It came to the conclusion of about 3-3.5 million deaths from 1921-1953, the vast majority, if not all, of those deaths under Stalin. He also find 950,000-1.2 million from the 1937-1938 terror.
On deportations I find J Otto Pohl's "Stalin's genocide Against "Repressed People" to be the best source. It found around 1 million deaths from these deportations. 600,000+ from ethnic deportations and 389,000 from dekulakization. Werth cites 1.5 million, but Pohl is likely more accurate.
So if we add all of these together then we find 1.6 million+1 million+1 million and we get 3.6 million. If we add and extra 200,000 that Ellman estimated then we get closer to 4 million. If we use Werth's estimate for deportations then we go over four million, but this number is likely the best we get for things we can absolutely pin on Stalin's regime.
We know from Years of Hunger, by Davies and Wheatcroft one of the best books on the 1932-33 famine, that around 5.5 million died. Snyder adds that to the numbers we already found to get 9 million deaths. But without those famine deaths, Snyder's number drops to 3.5-4 million.
Overall, the archive opening gave us tremendous knowledge on Stalinist repression, and 3.6 million repression deaths and 5.5 famine deaths, totaling 9.1 million is the best we have. Whether or not you want to include famine deaths is a completely different topic and this answer by u/Kockevn81 is worth checking out.
Sources:
Lethal Politics: Soviet mass murder and genocide since 1917( and example of the higher estimates.
Getty's Victims of the Soviet penal system in the pre-war years
Wheatcroft's German and Soviet mass murder and repression
Ellman's Soviet Repression Statistics: Some Comments.
Red Holocaust by Steve Rosefielde (for the 1.2 million gulag number.
Golfo Alexopoulos's analysis shows 1.5-1.7 million deaths in the gulag and other prisons
Werth's analysis shows 1.5 million deaths from deportations
Pohl finds roughly 1 million deaths from deportation
Years of Hunger by Davies and Wheatcroft.
Snyder's "Who killed more, Hitler or Stalin"
4

Drinkthekoolaid · Oct 12, 2026

spat said:
Your views are based on swallowing every bit of anti-western propaganda you come across, no matter how ridiculous.

The US did all sorts of "bad things" during the cold war.

But comparing that to the communists is like comparing shoplifters to serial killers.

The simple fact is we build walls to keep people out. They build walls to keep people in. That alone tells you all you need to know about which society treats their citizens better.

When a government is so "great" that it will kill you for trying to leave is all you need to know.

More people are dead from a direct cause of communism than any other governmental system of the previous 100 years will tell you the rest.

spat · Oct 12, 2026

Drinkthekoolaid said:
When a government is so "great" that it will kill you for trying to leave is all you need to know.

More people are dead from a direct cause of communism than any other governmental system of the previous 100 years will tell you the rest.

You'd think his ancestors were dragged kicking and screaming to the west and desperately not allowed to return to glorious Russia.

When the reality is more likely to be they risked their lives to escape it.

Mosinitis · Oct 12, 2026

Drinkthekoolaid said:
When a government is so "great" that it will kill you for trying to leave is all you need to know.

More people are dead from a direct cause of communism than any other governmental system of the previous 100 years will tell you the rest.

Hate to disappoint you. This self-serving American lullaby is simply not true as many other official narratives created to justify our goal to run the world.

Drinkthekoolaid · Oct 12, 2026

Mosinitis said:
Hate to disappoint you. This self-serving American lullaby is simply not true as many other official narratives created to justify our goal to run the world.

You win.

Communism is the greatest.

Mosinitis · Oct 12, 2026

Drinkthekoolaid said:
You win.

Communism is the greatest.

I didn't say it was the greatest. I compared it to Western Imperialism. Obviously Russia will be made out to be the bad guy no matter which system it has and by people who can't see their own ass in a room full of mirrors.

spat · Oct 12, 2026

Mosinitis said:
I didn't say it was the greatest. I compared it to Western Imperialism. Obviously Russia will be made out to be the bad guy no matter which system it has and by people who can't see their own ass in a room full of mirrors.

Well, if "the greatest" isn't western or communist, then what society do you think it is ?

Steal2B · Oct 12, 2026

Mosinitis said:
It certainly wasn't an evil empire as it was portrayed in this country.

Lol. First "we" swap the thread from the CCP to the USSR and then claim it was not an oppressive regime.

Let's look at a few facts about mother USSR.

1. Mass Repression and the Gulag System

How about the state-administered system of forced labor camps known as the Gulag.

• Under Vladimir Lenin and exponentially expanded under Joseph Stalin, the Gulag held millions of political prisoners, "class enemies," and ordinary citizens.

• Declassified Soviet archival data opened in the 1990s confirms that between 1930 and 1953, more than 18 million people passed through the Gulag system, with an estimated 1.5 to 1.7 million dying in the camps due to harsh conditions, starvation, and overwork.

• Just during 1937 to 1938 alone, the secret police (NKVD) arrested over 1.5 million people. Archival records show that 681,692 individuals were officially executed by the state for "counter-revolutionary crimes," often based on fabricated quotas.

2. Suppression of Human Rights and Dissidents

Oppression was not limited to the Stalin era; it was baked into the legal and structural fabric of the USSR until its collapse.

• Lack of Political Pluralism: The Communist Party was the only legal political party. Article 6 of the 1977 Soviet Constitution explicitly mandated the Party's monopoly on power.

• No Freedom of Speech or Press: All media, printing presses, and publishing houses were state-owned and strictly censored by Glavlit (the official censorship organ). Writing or possessing banned literature (like Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn’s The Gulag Archipelago) could result in years of imprisonment or internal exile.

• The KGB and Surveillance: The state maintained a massive network of secret police and informants to monitor everyday citizens. Informing on neighbors, coworkers, and even family members was heavily encouraged.

• Punitive Psychiatry: In the 1960s, 70s, and 80s, the Soviet regime routinely used psychiatric hospitals to imprison political dissidents. Dissidents like Vladimir Bukovsky were diagnosed with fabricated conditions like "sluggish schizophrenia" simply for advocating for human rights.

3. Forced Deportations and Ethnic Cleansing

The Soviet state routinely used mass deportations as a tool of social engineering and political control against entire ethnic populations.

• The "Punished Peoples": During World War II, Stalin ordered the forced deportation of entire ethnic groups suspected of potential disloyalty. This included over 400,000 Chechens and Ingush, 190,000 Crimean Tatars, and 350,000 Volga Germans.

• Human Cost: Packed into unventilated cattle cars and sent to remote areas of Siberia and Central Asia, an estimated 20% to 40% of the deported populations died from disease, exposure, and malnutrition during transit or shortly after arrival.

4. Direct Control over Daily Life and Movement

An oppressive state heavily restricts the personal autonomy of its citizens.

• The Passport System (Propiska): Introduced in 1932, internal passports were required to travel or live in different cities. Soviet peasants (collective farmers) were denied these passports until 1974, effectively legally tying them to their land—a system critics compared to neo-serfdom.

• The Iron Curtain: Soviet citizens were legally barred from leaving the country without explicit, hard-to-get state permission. Attempting to flee the USSR without authorization was classified as treason and punishable by death or lengthy prison terms.

Sorry, facts just don't support a positive spin on life in the USSR behind the Iron curtain.

Drinkthekoolaid · Oct 12, 2026

No one here is saying America, the West, or capitalism is not without faults and that we're perfect. Many here will admit and list off many mistakes, problems, and wrongs. I think most people here are fairly pragmatic.

But constantly defending communism is laughable. Its failed everywhere it's been tried because it's a completely terrible system. Sure it sounds great on paper, but so did that vintage car that the sales guy said Grandma only used to drive back and forth to church 3 times a week.

Every time communism fails, they always blame everyone except themselves and their system. Its always "if only we had a little more control it would have worked this time..."

spat · Oct 12, 2026

Drinkthekoolaid said:
No one here is saying America, the West, or capitalism is not without faults and that were perfect. Many here will admit and list off many mistakes, problems, and wrongs. I this most people here are fairly pragmatic.

But constantly defending communism is laughable. Its failed everywhere it's been tried because it's a completely terrible system. Sure it sounds great on paper, but so did that vintage car that the sales guy said Grandma only used to drive back and forth to church 3 times a week.

Every time communism fails, they always blame everyone except themselves and their system. Its always "if only we had a little more control it would have worked this time..."

Or my personal favorite "it's only bad here because the capitalists won't trade with us" LoL.

Mosinitis · Oct 12, 2026

Drinkthekoolaid said:
No one here is saying America, the West, or capitalism is not without faults and that were perfect. Many here will admit and list off many mistakes, problems, and wrongs. I this most people here are fairly pragmatic.

But constantly defending communism is laughable. Its failed everywhere it's been tried because it's a completely terrible system. Sure it sounds great on paper, but so did that vintage car that the sales guy said Grandma only used to drive back and forth to church 3 times a week.

Every time communism fails, they always blame everyone except themselves and their system. Its always "if only we had a little more control it would have worked this time..."

You are missing the point. We are not comparing where life is better. Imperialism does benefit its own, but at the expense of others. We are comparing impact of Imperialism on the entire world and impact of Communism on the entire world. US and Europe are only a fraction of the world. I am not aware of any former colony that regrets gaining its independence with Soviet help. That's billions of people.

thughes · Oct 12, 2026

Dammit, another thread goes into the "ignore" bucket.

Mosinitis · Oct 12, 2026

spat said:
Or my personal favorite "it's only bad here because the capitalists won't trade with us" LoL.

Every country can choose who it trades with. Hijacking ships involved in free trade in International waters is piracy. Naval blockade is an act of war.

Mosinitis · Oct 12, 2026

Steal2B said:
Lol. First "we" swap the thread from the CCP to the USSR and then claim it was not an oppressive regime.

Let's look at a few facts about mother USSR.

1. Mass Repression and the Gulag System

How about the state-administered system of forced labor camps known as the Gulag.

• Under Vladimir Lenin and exponentially expanded under Joseph Stalin, the Gulag held millions of political prisoners, "class enemies," and ordinary citizens.

• Declassified Soviet archival data opened in the 1990s confirms that between 1930 and 1953, more than 18 million people passed through the Gulag system, with an estimated 1.5 to 1.7 million dying in the camps due to harsh conditions, starvation, and overwork.

• Just during 1937 to 1938 alone, the secret police (NKVD) arrested over 1.5 million people. Archival records show that 681,692 individuals were officially executed by the state for "counter-revolutionary crimes," often based on fabricated quotas.

2. Suppression of Human Rights and Dissidents

Oppression was not limited to the Stalin era; it was baked into the legal and structural fabric of the USSR until its collapse.

• Lack of Political Pluralism: The Communist Party was the only legal political party. Article 6 of the 1977 Soviet Constitution explicitly mandated the Party's monopoly on power.

• No Freedom of Speech or Press: All media, printing presses, and publishing houses were state-owned and strictly censored by Glavlit (the official censorship organ). Writing or possessing banned literature (like Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn’s The Gulag Archipelago) could result in years of imprisonment or internal exile.

• The KGB and Surveillance: The state maintained a massive network of secret police and informants to monitor everyday citizens. Informing on neighbors, coworkers, and even family members was heavily encouraged.

• Punitive Psychiatry: In the 1960s, 70s, and 80s, the Soviet regime routinely used psychiatric hospitals to imprison political dissidents. Dissidents like Vladimir Bukovsky were diagnosed with fabricated conditions like "sluggish schizophrenia" simply for advocating for human rights.

3. Forced Deportations and Ethnic Cleansing

The Soviet state routinely used mass deportations as a tool of social engineering and political control against entire ethnic populations.

• The "Punished Peoples": During World War II, Stalin ordered the forced deportation of entire ethnic groups suspected of potential disloyalty. This included over 400,000 Chechens and Ingush, 190,000 Crimean Tatars, and 350,000 Volga Germans.

• Human Cost: Packed into unventilated cattle cars and sent to remote areas of Siberia and Central Asia, an estimated 20% to 40% of the deported populations died from disease, exposure, and malnutrition during transit or shortly after arrival.

4. Direct Control over Daily Life and Movement

An oppressive state heavily restricts the personal autonomy of its citizens.

• The Passport System (Propiska): Introduced in 1932, internal passports were required to travel or live in different cities. Soviet peasants (collective farmers) were denied these passports until 1974, effectively legally tying them to their land—a system critics compared to neo-serfdom.

• The Iron Curtain: Soviet citizens were legally barred from leaving the country without explicit, hard-to-get state permission. Attempting to flee the USSR without authorization was classified as treason and punishable by death or lengthy prison terms.

Sorry, facts just don't support a positive spin on life in the USSR behind the Iron curtain.

How many American Indians are still residing on their ancestral lands. Giving people infected blankets that would kill them, slavery, lynching, segregation, syphilis experiments. Do tell.

Steal2B · Oct 12, 2026

Mosinitis said:
How many American Indians are still residing on their ancestral lands. Giving people infected blankets that would kill them, slavery, lynching, segregation, syphilis experiments. Do tell.

Sure looks like someone likely named Leonoid is trying to pivot rather than address the facts of communist / USSR Oppression.

What sources are you using to evaluate life in the Soviet Union, and how do they account for the records opened from the Soviet archives themselves?

If the USSR wasn't oppressive, why did the state invest so heavily in internal security organs like the KGB, strict censorship of literature, and severe travel restrictions preventing citizens from leaving?

How would one reconcile a non-oppressive narrative with the public testimonies of Soviet dissidents, survivors of the labor camps, or even top officials who eventually exposed systemic state secrecy.

Mosinitis · Oct 12, 2026

Steal2B said:
Sure looks like someone likely named Leonoid is trying to pivot rather than address the facts of communist / USSR Oppression.

What sources are you using to evaluate life in the Soviet Union, and how do they account for the records opened from the Soviet archives themselves?

If the USSR wasn't oppressive, why did the state invest so heavily in internal security organs like the KGB, strict censorship of literature, and severe travel restrictions preventing citizens from leaving?

How would one reconcile a non-oppressive narrative with the public testimonies of Soviet dissidents, survivors of the labor camps, or even top officials who eventually exposed systemic state secrecy.

How much of that oppression was caused as a reaction to non-stop effort to overthrow Soviet government and when these efforts finally succeeded what benefit did it bring to ordinary people. Horrible 1990's. Declined population growth. Looted assets. A dozen or so conflicts and wars on post-Soviet territory that take numerous lives to this day.
......and as it turned out, it was never about communism. After its sunset the efforts to destroy what was left of the Russian state only escalated.

Drinkthekoolaid · Oct 12, 2026

Mosinitis said:
Every country can choose who it trades with. Hijacking ships involved in free trade in International waters is piracy. Naval blockade is an act of war.

I actually do agree with this.

Drinkthekoolaid · Oct 12, 2026

Mosinitis said:
How many American Indians are still residing on their ancestral lands. Giving people infected blankets that would kill them, slavery, lynching, segregation, syphilis experiments. Do tell.

You left out WW2 internment camps and Irish canal diggers

Again, no one here is claiming the US hasn't made mistakes. But we can be honest about it.

spat · Oct 12, 2026

Mosinitis said:
You are missing the point. We are not comparing where life is better. Imperialism does benefit its own, but at the expense of others. We are comparing impact of Imperialism on the entire world and impact of Communism on the entire world. US and Europe are only a fraction of the world. I am not aware of any former colony that regrets gaining its independence with Soviet help. That's billions of people.

You are acting like imperialism wasn't the default setting for nearly everyone for nearly all of history.

The west was just better at it.

Imperialism was basically what strong states *did* prior to WWII.

Now you're going to try and drag out a dozen reasons why Japanese imperialism in WWII was the fault of the west, but the fact remains they're the only nation that changes their flag during times of war to one that shows them going out to conquer the world.

After WWII, the US led the creation of a new order where naked imperialism was frowned upon. That led to the new order where the great powers fought using puppet states instead of outright acquiring territory.

And the Soviets embraced that as enthusiastically as anyone.

That's where the whole "1st, 2nd, and 3rd world" thing came from. It was never about the level of development that people today seem to think it is. In fact, since the fall of the Soviet union it doesn't even make sense to use those terms.

It was:

1st world = US/western aligned nations.
2nd world = Soviet aligned nations.
3rd world = unaligned nations.

In practice, the 1st world nations were, or became, technologically advanced countries with a high standard of living.

The 2nd world were industrialized, but that didn't filter down to the day to day lives of their citizens.

And the 3rd world were just shit holes nobody cared about. They weren't unaligned by choice as much as nobody wanted them.

fresch · Oct 12, 2026

Drinkthekoolaid said:
No one here is saying America, the West, or capitalism is not without faults and that we're perfect. Many here will admit and list off many mistakes, problems, and wrongs. I think most people here are fairly pragmatic.

But constantly defending communism is laughable. Its failed everywhere it's been tried because it's a completely terrible system. Sure it sounds great on paper, but so did that vintage car that the sales guy said Grandma only used to drive back and forth to church 3 times a week.

Every time communism fails, they always blame everyone except themselves and their system. Its always "if only we had a little more control it would have worked this time..."

Got the phone number for that cream puff? Asking for a friend!

Mosinitis · Oct 12, 2026

spat said:
You are acting like imperialism wasn't the default setting for nearly everyone for nearly all of history.

The west was just better at it.

Imperialism was basically what strong states *did* prior to WWII.

Now you're going to try and drag out a dozen reasons why Japanese imperialism in WWII was the fault of the west, but the fact remains they're the only nation that changes their flag during times of war to one that shows them going out to conquer the world.

After WWII, the US led the creation of a new order where naked imperialism was frowned upon. That led to the new order where the great powers fought using puppet states instead of outright acquiring territory.

And the Soviets embraced that as enthusiastically as anyone.

That's where the whole "1st, 2nd, and 3rd world" thing came from. It was never about the level of development that people today seem to think it is. In fact, since the fall of the Soviet union it doesn't even make sense to use those terms.

It was:

1st world = US/western aligned nations.
2nd world = Soviet aligned nations.
3rd world = unaligned nations.

In practice, the 1st world nations were, or became, technologically advanced countries with a high standard of living.

The 2nd world were industrialized, but that didn't filter down to the day to day lives of their citizens.

And the 3rd world were just shit holes nobody cared about. They weren't unaligned by choice as much as nobody wanted them.

I never blamed the West for Japanese Imperialism. I only claimed they were not as tough as they were made out to be. Soviets defeated them in 1939 at Khalkhin Gol and spared Mongolian nation from horrors of Japanese occupation.

You can spin cold war any way you want, but the fact remains. US sided with European Colonial powers in every war against colonial rule. Soviets sided with liberation movements. Billions of people who live in these countries know that. Not only colonies, also nations with defacto colonial status, ruled by installed dictators.

spat · Oct 12, 2026

Mosinitis said:
I never blamed the West for Japanese Imperialism. I only claimed they were not as tough as they are made out to be. Soviets defeated them in 1939 at Khalkhin Gol and spared Mongolian nation from horrors of Japanese occupation.

You can spin cold war any way you want, but the fact remains. US sided with European Colonial powers in every war against colonial rule. Soviets sided with liberation movements. Billions of people who live in these countries know that. Not only colonies, also nations with defacto colonial status, ruled by installed dictators.

You conveniently ignore all the nations ruled by Soviet installed dictators.

The Soviets sided with "liberation movements" when it suited them. Just like the west.

We have a pretty good example of how the people fared though.

The 2 Chinas. The Taiwainese were worlds better off than the communists.

Imagine where those people would be today if the mainland never fell to the communists.

tirwin1 · Oct 12, 2026

Mosinitis said:
I never blamed the West for Japanese Imperialism. I only claimed they were not as tough as they were made out to be. Soviets defeated them in 1939 at Khalkhin Gol and spared Mongolian nation from horrors of Japanese occupation.

You can spin cold war any way you want, but the fact remains. US sided with European Colonial powers in every war against colonial rule. Soviets sided with liberation movements. Billions of people who live in these countries know that. Not only colonies, also nations with defacto colonial status, ruled by installed dictators.

So we sided with them when they tried to take the suez canal? That's news to me.

Mosinitis · Oct 12, 2026

spat said:
You conveniently ignore all the nations ruled by Soviet installed dictators.

The Soviets sided with "liberation movements" when it suited them. Just like the west.

We have a pretty good example of how the people fared though.

The 2 Chinas. The Taiwainese were worlds better off than the communists.

Imagine where those people would be today if the mainland never fell to the communists.

Soviets didn't profit from Eastern Block countries.

Steal2B · Oct 12, 2026

Mosinitis said:
Soviets didn't profit from Eastern Block countries.

That's quite misleading and half the story.

After World War 2 Moscow raped and pillaged the Eastern Bloc nations.

Eventually, decades later, Moscow subsidized the Eastern bloc nations in order to squash rebellion and maintain control.

Immediately after World War II, the Soviet Union stripped East Germany, Hungary, Romania, and Poland of industrial machinery, factory equipment, entire rail systems, and raw materials using the excuse the theft was war reparations.

Moscow then set up "joint-stock companies" in Eastern Europe that gave Soviet management control over local assets, siphoning profits back to Moscow.

For decades Moscow's trade agreements continued the theft by intentionally undervaluing Eastern European resources while overvaluing Soviet goods, profiting for a war-torn Soviet economy to recover at its Eastern European neighbors' expense.

In the 70s the trade imbalance started to shift when the USSR provided the Eastern Bloc with oil, natural gas, and raw materials at prices well below global market rates.

The Soviet Union eventually started importing low-quality Eastern European manufactured goods (such as machinery and consumer products) that could not have competed on open global markets, because (accrording to both Western and Eastern Economic historians) this structure of the USSR net-subsidizing the Eastern Bloc was to prevent local worker rebellions, strikes, and political unrest against communist rule.

spat · Oct 12, 2026

Mosinitis said:
Soviets didn't profit from Eastern Block countries.

For the west it was about control, not profit.

To the extent the west profited from those nations, the people in those nations generally profitted as well.

Profit isn't a zero sum game. It works best when everyone benefits. It's very much like farming. If you try to push too hard you end up worse off. If you take care of your herd they will be more productive.

Mosinitis · Oct 13, 2026

tirwin1 said:
So we sided with them when they tried to take the suez canal? That's news to me.

Grasping at straws. Egypt wasn't even a colony.

Steal2B said:
That's quite misleading and half the story.

After World War 2 Moscow raped and pillaged the Eastern Bloc nations.

Eventually, decades later, Moscow subsidized the Eastern bloc nations in order to squash rebellion and maintain control.

Immediately after World War II, the Soviet Union stripped East Germany, Hungary, Romania, and Poland of industrial machinery, factory equipment, entire rail systems, and raw materials using the excuse the theft was war reparations.

Moscow then set up "joint-stock companies" in Eastern Europe that gave Soviet management control over local assets, siphoning profits back to Moscow.

For decades Moscow's trade agreements continued the theft by intentionally undervaluing Eastern European resources while overvaluing Soviet goods, profiting for a war-torn Soviet economy to recover at its Eastern European neighbors' expense.

In the 70s the trade imbalance started to shift when the USSR provided the Eastern Bloc with oil, natural gas, and raw materials at prices well below global market rates.

The Soviet Union eventually started importing low-quality Eastern European manufactured goods (such as machinery and consumer products) that could not have competed on open global markets, because (accrording to both Western and Eastern Economic historians) this structure of the USSR net-subsidizing the Eastern Bloc was to prevent local worker rebellions, strikes, and political unrest against communist rule.

False. Soviets had their own version of Marshall plan. It was called Molotov plan. While their own population was starving in post-war famine, they sent economic aid to rebuild Eastern Europe.

tirwin1 · Oct 13, 2026

Mosinitis said:
Grasping at straws. Egypt wasn't even a colony.

.

If an attempt by Britain and France to take control of the suez canal in a 3rd world country doesn't qualify as "imperialism" then your entire position is null and void. This example just doesn't happet to fit your absurd characterization so you want to ignore it. Doesn't work that way but nice try. Consistency is not your strong suit.

Steal2B · Oct 13, 2026

Mosinitis said:
False

Leonoid, it is quite true. Try researching before blathering bullshit.

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This is INSANITY: Chinese communism survivor

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