Children are among the victims at Bend, Oregon, school shooting

Deplorable Me

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byron

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I see a lot talking about the hero breaking the law by going on school property in this case he did not if as I heard he was driving by when he seen the kid with the gun so this would apply Exigent circumstances are urgent, emergency situations where a reasonable person believes that immediate, warrantless action is necessary to protect life, prevent serious harm, stop a fleeing suspect, or stop the destruction of evidence.
 
byron

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livingston said:

Armed Parent Broke Oregon Law to Stop the Bend School Shooter​

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Exigent circumstances are urgent, emergency situations where a reasonable person believes that immediate, warrantless action is necessary to protect life, prevent serious harm, stop a fleeing suspect, or stop the destruction of evidence.
 
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byron said:
I see a lot talking about the hero breaking the law by going on school property in this case he did not if as I heard he was driving by when he seen the kid with the gun so this would apply Exigent circumstances are urgent, emergency situations where a reasonable person believes that immediate, warrantless action is necessary to protect life, prevent serious harm, stop a fleeing suspect, or stop the destruction of evidence.
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I posted this because the clip gave a pretty good rundown on the timeline of this event, This is the first time I have seen a view of the pick up truck
I have seen news clips where the "experts did ask if if this responder would be charged . Our world is this crazy.
No one asks this question ... If this fellow had to drop his kids off at school and continue on to work . Chances are he would have left that handgun home as to not break a law ...
 
Brawny71

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byron said:
I see a lot talking about the hero breaking the law by going on school property in this case he did not if as I heard he was driving by when he seen the kid with the gun so this would apply Exigent circumstances are urgent, emergency situations where a reasonable person believes that immediate, warrantless action is necessary to protect life, prevent serious harm, stop a fleeing suspect, or stop the destruction of evidence.
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I would bet a poll of the parents of the kids in that school (his peers btw) would verify their thoughts on the law (followed only by the law abiding) and the practice/action during emergency situation.
 
VietnamEraVet

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Reading some different articles on this, I am left with questions as to how he fired off all of the shots he reportedly did.

The shotgun, a Mossberg Maverick 88 (exact model variant not specified) could hold 5+1, 7+1, or more?

He supposedly loaded it with birdshot, buckshot, and slugs. And it is chambered to accept up to 3” shells.

First it was reported that he fired 3, or possibly 6 rounds at the red pickup truck driver.

Next he shot a “special” door lock off of the back door he then entered through. So, at least 1 or more rounds.

And reports now say he fired off at least 15 rounds in the classroom!

The Maverick is NOT a box magazine fed shotgun.

And yet we are to believe that he magically (and quickly) somehow loaded and fired off between 19 - 22 rounds in that event, - with the majority of them in the classroom while struggling with a teacher for control of the shotgun?

Call me skeptical, but I am having a hard time visualizing that scenario.
 
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VietnamEraVet said:
Reading some different articles on this, I am left with questions as to how he fired off all of the shots he reportedly did.

The shotgun, a Mossberg Maverick 88 (exact model variant not specified) could hold 5+1, 7+1, or more?

He supposedly loaded it with birdshot, buckshot, and slugs. And it is chambered to accept up to 3” shells.

First it was reported that he fired 3, or possibly 6 rounds at the red pickup truck driver.

Next he shot a “special” door lock off of the back door he then entered through. So, at least 1 or more rounds.

And reports now say he fired off at least 15 rounds in the classroom!

The Maverick is NOT a box magazine fed shotgun.

And yet we are to believe that he magically (and quickly) somehow loaded and fired off between 19 - 22 rounds in that event, - with the majority of them in the classroom while struggling with a teacher for control of the shotgun?

Call me skeptical, but I am having a hard time visualizing that scenario.
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7+1 in a Mav 88, that’s only 2 reloads if he ran it all the way empty.

My guess is he kept topping it off when he had a few seconds.
 
Brawny71

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Folllow on discussion topic/ thought: We have been told over and over in the past 5 years that Social Workers can best talk down/ deescallate situations (I think the majority of us have a real thought on this, so bear with me). Proof of concept/ Single Point of failure would disagree with this and the rest of the shootings in the news. Afterall, each school HAS a Social working on staff. This is a perfect case. I would be willing to bet big dollars that the Social Working at this school had interfaced with this guy prior. Yet all the Active Shooter plans I have reviewed, Not One has the Social Working moving priority 1 to the scene. Most of us agree this theory sucks, but these situations should be used as a reminder of what is said without action backing it up. The restrictions of cross reporting (to other schools, other DSS, LEO) adds to a single point of failure.

Father of the Year executed the "Self Rescue, See Something Do Something" and will most likely pay the price for the next 10 years being second guessed, Doxed, and demonized. Worth the price from his point of view (and mine) but the point is the Gov is not applying continuous improvement and is in fact hindering it.

Of course, that will not stop the next NYS/ MA listing the weapon of choice as a State identified NFA item, add restrictions to those legally having and using, and the demonization of the guy who limited the damage and neutralized the threat efficiently.
 
spat

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VietnamEraVet said:
Reading some different articles on this, I am left with questions as to how he fired off all of the shots he reportedly did.

The shotgun, a Mossberg Maverick 88 (exact model variant not specified) could hold 5+1, 7+1, or more?

He supposedly loaded it with birdshot, buckshot, and slugs. And it is chambered to accept up to 3” shells.

First it was reported that he fired 3, or possibly 6 rounds at the red pickup truck driver.

Next he shot a “special” door lock off of the back door he then entered through. So, at least 1 or more rounds.

And reports now say he fired off at least 15 rounds in the classroom!

The Maverick is NOT a box magazine fed shotgun.

And yet we are to believe that he magically (and quickly) somehow loaded and fired off between 19 - 22 rounds in that event, - with the majority of them in the classroom while struggling with a teacher for control of the shotgun?

Call me skeptical, but I am having a hard time visualizing that scenario.
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Shoots at the truck.
Tops off the mag while walking to the building.

Shoots out the door.
Tops off the mag while walking to the classroom.

Etc, etc...

That's not hard.
 
Saltwater60

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GTN said:
It doesn’t matter what the tool is. If someone wants to hurt/kill they will find away.
My son wanted a shotgun for his 21st birthday. I wouldn’t get him one. Instead he used a knife to kill his girlfriend
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I hope this is hypothetical.
 
Saltwater60

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Brawny71 said:
Folllow on discussion topic/ thought: We have been told over and over in the past 5 years that Social Workers can best talk down/ deescallate situations (I think the majority of us have a real thought on this, so bear with me). Proof of concept/ Single Point of failure would disagree with this and the rest of the shootings in the news. Afterall, each school HAS a Social working on staff. This is a perfect case. I would be willing to bet big dollars that the Social Working at this school had interfaced with this guy prior. Yet all the Active Shooter plans I have reviewed, Not One has the Social Working moving priority 1 to the scene. Most of us agree this theory sucks, but these situations should be used as a reminder of what is said without action backing it up. The restrictions of cross reporting (to other schools, other DSS, LEO) adds to a single point of failure.

Father of the Year executed the "Self Rescue, See Something Do Something" and will most likely pay the price for the next 10 years being second guessed, Doxed, and demonized. Worth the price from his point of view (and mine) but the point is the Gov is not applying continuous improvement and is in fact hindering it.

Of course, that will not stop the next NYS/ MA listing the weapon of choice as a State identified NFA item, add restrictions to those legally having and using, and the demonization of the guy who limited the damage and neutralized the threat efficiently.
Click to expand...
Social workers our counselors have their place. I could see it working where a person with a knife is across the way and there’s time to talk them down. No way would a social worker work for the most part in an active shooter scenario. They do have trained hostage negotiators for a reason. They say hostage negotiators are successful 80-90% of the time. A social worker could do similar, but not likely when shots are firing already. However if they are so successful why haven’t they done this yet? I’m not aware of them imbedding social workers in anything similar though.
I think has its place, but this certainly isn’t it.
 
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Saltwater60 said:
Social workers our counselors have their place. I could see it working where a person with a knife is across the way and there’s time to talk them down. No way would a social worker work for the most part in an active shooter scenario. They do have trained hostage negotiators for a reason. They say hostage negotiators are successful 80-90% of the time. A social worker could do similar, but not likely when shots are firing already. However if they are so successful why haven’t they done this yet? I’m not aware of them imbedding social workers in anything similar though.
I think has its place, but this certainly isn’t it.
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Well yes, the paid it's A 9-5, to others it's A life or death. If we have to pay for a filter person, I believe a trained officer armed, who keeps records of the crazy encounters and can shoot armed crazies is the best spent $.
 
Saltwater60

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spat said:
People willing to let their family be murdered because the alternative is for strangers to think they're mean.
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I hear it all the time that they don’t want to turn schools into prisons. I guess they are ok taking the chance. Honestly our idiot politicians would never spend the money saving these kids anyway. They want this to happen. It’s all part of their political strategy.
 
spat

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Saltwater60 said:
I hear it all the time that they don’t want to turn schools into prisons. I guess they are ok taking the chance. Honestly our idiot politicians would never spend the money saving these kids anyway. They want this to happen. It’s all part of their political strategy.
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We don't need to turn the schools into prisons.

We do need to stop sending people who should be prisoners there with our kids.

If someone is unstable, you don't wait till they go off the deep end. You get them out of the mainstream classrooms right away.

Then you could go back to running the schools like schools.

By the time you get to high-school, any student you couldn't trust with a shotgun in their locker is explicitly a failure and needs to be in a special facility.

The left talks about "progress", but that is not what they have brought.

We have fallen so far from the days of kids like this.

FB_IMG_1792276773985.jpg
 
GOPerfect

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Saltwater60 said:
I hear it all the time that they don’t want to turn schools into prisons. I guess they are ok taking the chance. Honestly our idiot politicians would never spend the money saving these kids anyway. They want this to happen. It’s all part of their political strategy.
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We do not need to treat schools like prisons.

Speak up against the wrong, stop being so damn afraid to call a spade a spade.

Call out the mental illness. This current shooter, shit, just looking at him tells me he should be nowhere near a gun, or a public school.

Learn the lessons from past governments around the world. Do not be afraid to separate and segregate.
 
Saltwater60

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GOPerfect said:
We do not need to treat schools like prisons.

Speak up against the wrong, stop being so damn afraid to call a spade a spade.

Call out the mental illness. This current shooter, shit, just looking at him tells me he should be nowhere near a gun, or a public school.

Learn the lessons from past governments around the world. Do not be afraid to separate and segregate.
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I agree. I’m not saying they need to be prisons, but people say this. I think they mean this when we say add armed guards or metal detectors to the schools and keep them on lockdown. To me this is common sense and needs to be done among other things.
 
GOPerfect

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Saltwater60 said:
I agree. I’m not saying they need to be prisons, but people say this. I think they mean this when we say add armed guards or metal detectors to the schools and keep them on lockdown. To me this is common sense and needs to be done among other things.
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My ideas go further than guards and metal detectors.

I think we need to rate the students that go to these schools. If they appear to be problem children, wicked special needs, mental health issues, to include all forms of MI, not allowed in schools.

There was a guy in historical notes that had great, and strict rules about who could go to schools. Maybe read those notes.
 
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