50-A Is Gone
- Thread starter DrBleachCocktail
- Start date
This is so wrong and it will backfire. Huge. Many may think this is a good thing, it is not.
Go ahead, revel in it. I know there are many within the membership of this forum that will be happy. They are foolish and very, very ignorant.
Go ahead, revel in it. I know there are many within the membership of this forum that will be happy. They are foolish and very, very ignorant.
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Only bill we need is one that mandates intense, deep mental health evaluation of new police recruits, because you'd have to be mentally ill to want to join LE now. I bet there are people who grew up wanting to be a cop and are making the decision not to now.
Dr. Evil
20×102mm Vulcan
I didn't read it but if the princess is happy, I'm not.
Not even sure where to begin.
I'll start with home address. That will be given out. Now my family is at risk. We do not deal with all good people.
Where does this stop? Starts with LE and goes to each and every department and section of government. Anyone employed by a town, city, county and State. Opens up too many bad possibilities.
My family is not part of my job. They don't need to everything I do. I did many things in the Army that my family knows nothing about, just like this job. Not theirs to know.
Officers get hit with all types of accusations, some are true, some are very false. We do not always win the case against us. Many will take a quick suspension over fighting some of these BS charges.
I can add more later.
I honestly don’t care. I don’t plan on doing any police work between now and March. And if my next pension statement, reflecting all the BLM O/T, comes in hot, I may retire before the summer is up.
I truly feel bad for people like you @GOPerfect who can’t retire yet. I have 3 awesome cops under me and lots of good friends who have a lot of time to go. I feel for them. I’m extremely lucky to be able to leave right now AND have all of this pensionable overtime dumped in my lap within this time frame.
Policing is done as a profession. As you said @Blimey, it sucks for all the young people who have this as a calling in their heart. Truly rural policing is their only option now and those jobs don’t pay well and are few and far between.
I truly feel bad for people like you @GOPerfect who can’t retire yet. I have 3 awesome cops under me and lots of good friends who have a lot of time to go. I feel for them. I’m extremely lucky to be able to leave right now AND have all of this pensionable overtime dumped in my lap within this time frame.
Policing is done as a profession. As you said @Blimey, it sucks for all the young people who have this as a calling in their heart. Truly rural policing is their only option now and those jobs don’t pay well and are few and far between.
Joe Blow
.45 acp
Your home address etc. info will not be available through a FOIL. Lawsuits etc., no guarantees. Nothing to hide, nothing to worry about...
carpediem
.338 Win Mag
Policing is done in my opinion also. The criminals will fabricate BS stories, the social justice warriors will see to it the officers pay dearly, and criminals will be emboldened and get more brazen. Then you will get the other side of policing. Those who join to do bad things to certain people. When people make allegations of abuse toward those types, it will fall on deaf, racist ears. There is no good end to the road we have started down, and believe me when i say, i have had some run ins with some absolutely terrible badge wearing individuals. However, i can say the same about any profession. We will miss what was and rue what will be.
Remember, initially many people celebrated the Wehrmacht of the Third Reich rolling into their country, but then the awful reality of things set in.
Be careful what you wish for.....
I don't see the release of records as a bad thing, in and of it's self, but right now, they are useless. Complaints can be filed for anything, justified or not, and they have to go into the file. So every cop that's interacting with anyone will eventually do something that bothers the person being arrested to the point of filing a complaint. I know people have filed them to try to get leverage in court, or just to make it one more thing a cop they didn't like has to deal with. With that being the case, most cops are going to have SOMETHING there, and that will be used as a club against them even when the claim was proven to be complete BS, or their actions were completely justified.
Of course, if they insist on making the records public, I'd have a couple of changes to how complaints are handled though.
If you are filing a complaint to be investigated, then it would need to be a sworn statement, with all the weight of a perjury charge behind it. No more anonymous complaints, and no more "He beat me up for no reason, after I attached him" Any falsification by the plaintiff would have to be heard by a grand jury, and would legally require prosecution if the grand jury rules there is a case.
No wiggle room, or "We're going to let that slide" if you're lying your ass off about the wrong doing of a cop, because it's a damn serious accusation.
On the flip side, the same would go for a cop that was bullshitting about the incident. If you falsify a report , prosecution should be required.
I know none of that would fly with either the "We need everyone to feel safe filing a report" crowd, or with the police union, but one could hope.
Releasing their home address is a major "NOPE" though, court case, or not. That opens a whole can of retaliation worms that no one should even want to consider. Does the Judge slap their home address on every court case they hear? What about the DA? Or the Public Defenders? When they start giving out that info with every case they are involved with, then maybe we can start asking cops to do the same.
I'm all for body cameras to help decide who's the one that's full of shit, and who isn't. I understand there will be no more traffic warnings instead of tickets, but restoring the faith of people in the police would be more important to me than skipping a speeding ticket.
Of course, if they insist on making the records public, I'd have a couple of changes to how complaints are handled though.
If you are filing a complaint to be investigated, then it would need to be a sworn statement, with all the weight of a perjury charge behind it. No more anonymous complaints, and no more "He beat me up for no reason, after I attached him" Any falsification by the plaintiff would have to be heard by a grand jury, and would legally require prosecution if the grand jury rules there is a case.
No wiggle room, or "We're going to let that slide" if you're lying your ass off about the wrong doing of a cop, because it's a damn serious accusation.
On the flip side, the same would go for a cop that was bullshitting about the incident. If you falsify a report , prosecution should be required.
I know none of that would fly with either the "We need everyone to feel safe filing a report" crowd, or with the police union, but one could hope.
Releasing their home address is a major "NOPE" though, court case, or not. That opens a whole can of retaliation worms that no one should even want to consider. Does the Judge slap their home address on every court case they hear? What about the DA? Or the Public Defenders? When they start giving out that info with every case they are involved with, then maybe we can start asking cops to do the same.
I'm all for body cameras to help decide who's the one that's full of shit, and who isn't. I understand there will be no more traffic warnings instead of tickets, but restoring the faith of people in the police would be more important to me than skipping a speeding ticket.
Cops are prosecuted for filing false reports/lying/perjury every single time it's caught. There's no leeway on that one. Hell in the Bronx, that's pretty much the only crime they prosecute besides homicides.
One of the biggest complaints cops have is that people can lie about us all they want without prosecution. My one lawsuit was a complete fabrication. It's why I am so pro-bodycam. He literally told us over and over again that he was going to do it. Broke his arm the day before playing hockey and had no health insurance so he punched one of my cops in the street then fought with the rest of us who responded, just so he could say we did it. Worked like a charm. He got full treatment and an $11,000 settlement.
This is what society seems to want right now so whatever.
One of the biggest complaints cops have is that people can lie about us all they want without prosecution. My one lawsuit was a complete fabrication. It's why I am so pro-bodycam. He literally told us over and over again that he was going to do it. Broke his arm the day before playing hockey and had no health insurance so he punched one of my cops in the street then fought with the rest of us who responded, just so he could say we did it. Worked like a charm. He got full treatment and an $11,000 settlement.
This is what society seems to want right now so whatever.
libertysnake
.338 Win Mag
Addresses shouldn't be given out, especially with regard to LEO or firearms ownership for private citizens. No argument there.
libertysnake
.338 Win Mag
The penalty for someone pulling that bullshit should be high.
Problem is we don't give a fuck about burden of proof anymore. Once the media gets their hooks in you, you're done. Doesn't matter whether you did something or not. Doesn't matter if you have an evolving stance. Nothing matters other than perception.
That's why I don't talk politics at work. No one outside my immediate family and basically here knows my stances. All it takes is one misinterpreted quote and then it's over. You're judged. The perception persists.
This is why I am leaving. It doesn't matter if you are a "good cop" or a "bad cop" anymore. All it takes is a creative camera angle and everything I have worked for my whole adult life is done. My livelihood, my pension, my kids lose their dad, DONE.
Remember Michael Brown... cop was 100% right. 150% right. Fuck boy's DNA was on the cop's gun and uniform. But "hands up, don't shoot" is being screamed at NYC cops to this day, a thousand miles from where it happened.
Truebeliever
6.5 Creedmoor
The downside is officers who are not formally charged can be linked to investigations. For example, someone says their property went missing when they were arrested but don’t know the officer, every Officer they interview might have it on their record now . So 10 innocent officers have such an interview on public record. Now, they become detectives on a big case later, the jury gets to hear that accusation. It jeopardizes that case.
It gives an appearance of guilt. Think about it, a cop who does 15 years and hundreds of arrests gets 8 complaints. Less than one a year but it sounds bad. Again, defense lawyers get to use it. Plaintiffs get to use it in lawsuits even if they were bogus . It will cost the tax payers money. But what about the argument that it’s only fair if they use someone’s criminal record ? Criminal records are often sealed. Also the cop might not have been formally charged at all. Imagine if your neighbors can just call 911 about you , make a report and that is now public record even if it was determined to be BS by the police who responded .
How many cops who are having “issues” will come forward to get help if it’s public record. That time bomb that would have sought help isn’t , and now will be out there. Something to think about.
It gives an appearance of guilt. Think about it, a cop who does 15 years and hundreds of arrests gets 8 complaints. Less than one a year but it sounds bad. Again, defense lawyers get to use it. Plaintiffs get to use it in lawsuits even if they were bogus . It will cost the tax payers money. But what about the argument that it’s only fair if they use someone’s criminal record ? Criminal records are often sealed. Also the cop might not have been formally charged at all. Imagine if your neighbors can just call 911 about you , make a report and that is now public record even if it was determined to be BS by the police who responded .
How many cops who are having “issues” will come forward to get help if it’s public record. That time bomb that would have sought help isn’t , and now will be out there. Something to think about.
In that case, the record should show that there was an investigation, and there was no wrong doing found on that officers part. "This was investigated, and found to be a false allegation. The complainant was found to have committed perjury, and served X time in prison."
It's bullshit they can make the claim, and have it recorded, with no proof. If I file a report that had $5k, and was robbed, I at the very least face the charge of filing a false report if I didn't have $5k to start with.
"I had $5k with me, and the cop stole it!" only flies if the body camera shows the cop pulling $5k out of the suspects pocket, and there's no record of it being put into evidence. Under my rules, right there, they would be charges, and prosecuted for perjury. Then the cops record reflects they were falsely accused, and the person making the accusation was prosecuted for it.
Being able to lie with zero repercussions is a major part of the problem.
That's been one of the sticking point with the Floyd event. "That cop had 18 reports, and they did NOTHING! BURN SHIT DOWN!".... How many of those were crap reports? How many were real situations where he went over the edge?
Personally, I have no idea, so it falls into the "Um, that's interesting, but irrelevant" category. Same as Floyd's criminal record. Yes, it proves he was a scumbag, but that doesn't have anything to do with what happened after he was cuffed and on the ground.
Also a good point. Why make anything but complaints, and the results of the investigation against the cop part of the record? If a cop gets close to kicking the crap out of someone for no reason, and says "Holy shit, I need to figure this out NOW, before it becomes a problem" I see no reason that should be part of the release.
Airborn, that's part of the double edged sword. If the cops are already under threat of prosecution, and it's being prosecuted, then they would have no problem with the people filing the bullshit complaints facing the same.
All around, right now, under the rules they have in place, it's nothing but pandering. Political "Look, we did something!" just to say they did something.
Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
I can tell you that 99% of police complaints are bull shit. The one that sticks out in my mind against a family member of mine is he pulled a car over for running red lights and stop signs. It ends up being a black guy. He says I need to get back to Buffalo to get to work. Cop says well what’s the problem. Black guy well I got no brakes. Cop checks and resubmit is empty. Brake line is broken and leaking fluid. Car gets towed. Black guy says you can’t I have to get back to Buffalo. Cop says call a cab. Black guy I have no money. Cop and another cop pull out wallet and pool $60 for a cab ride. Black guy sues city and says he was only pulled over because he’s black and filed federal lawsuit. Black guy also paid cabbie $20 and stole $40. Black guy steals $40 from police/cab driver and then gets awarded $2,700 for the lawsuit. It costs more to defend lawsuits so they don’t and just pay them out. This will now be held against cop and be in record and is now a firable/investigative infraction.
Essentially all white cops will be fired. This is why this is a bad idea.
Does that sum it up for you guys?
Are there bad cops yep, are there some cops that should be fired yep. No one deserves this much or this type of scrutiny. Can I go in and ask for your employment files? No. Employers won’t even give them out because they are afraid of lawsuits. Only attendance is given out. Maybe the cops should sue the city/state even time one of these is granted.
Cops get bullshit retaliatory complaints filed against them all the time. All the time.
Essentially all white cops will be fired. This is why this is a bad idea.
Does that sum it up for you guys?
Are there bad cops yep, are there some cops that should be fired yep. No one deserves this much or this type of scrutiny. Can I go in and ask for your employment files? No. Employers won’t even give them out because they are afraid of lawsuits. Only attendance is given out. Maybe the cops should sue the city/state even time one of these is granted.
Cops get bullshit retaliatory complaints filed against them all the time. All the time.
DrBleachCocktail
.44 mag
If someone lie on a cop they should face a very high sentence I mean like no shit high sentence.
cranberry
9mm
Surely your body cam will exonerate you from any bad behavior .
I was pretty sure that choke holds where already a no no.
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
True. Sane people would not voluntarily join the police in any major city in the USA at this point. FBI is probably still safe.
Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
What if you’re rolling around on the ground with a guy/gal. You’ll never see anything in that body camera.
Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
Knees to the neck are. Choke holds we’re not and should be allowed in some situations. Not normal course of business but life and death situations or to protect others from further harm yes. Picture a guy punching a girl. No problem with a choke hold to stop this IMO.
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Not sure if joking. Truth does not matter when a white cop is accused of having done something to a black person. airborne reminded us of this with michael brown being the preeminent example.
Carlos Hathcock
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Had dinner with my buddy tonight. He had the opportunity to get out in October but was planning on staying maybe another year.
Was.
There's no way he's going to stay one minute past retirement. Says it's just not worth it. One hand was tied before, now both are and shoelaces are tied together. I don't blame him. Already agree it's a no win situation.
Was.
There's no way he's going to stay one minute past retirement. Says it's just not worth it. One hand was tied before, now both are and shoelaces are tied together. I don't blame him. Already agree it's a no win situation.
Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
It’s a disaster waiting to happen. This country is a powder keg right now. The cops are the black powder and the antifa shitbags lot the fuse.
spat
.950 JDJ
If you were justified getting into a wrestling match, then you're probably justified doing whatever you need to do once you're down there IMHO.
Vapor
.308 Win
If liberals want to defund police, that's fine.
We can go back to posse justice.
When bodies are swinging from posts, either from their necks, or their privates,they'll ask for you back.
Because...arrest and prison won't be the intention.
Fuck around and find out.
We can go back to posse justice.
When bodies are swinging from posts, either from their necks, or their privates,they'll ask for you back.
Because...arrest and prison won't be the intention.
Fuck around and find out.