Am I worthy of a pistol permit?

[Justincase]

Do people without felony convictions, restraining orders, and/or those who haven’t had any documented issues with depression get denied for a CCP? I’m asking because I just didn’t get a good vibe (whatever that’s worth) from the police chief who did my face to face interview.

Here’s a few reasons I’m a bit worried that I may be denied. First, and he started the interview off by saying “Let’s start with the elephant in the room”. I’m a junior, and my dad has a pretty egregious felony conviction from 25 years ago. Shouldn’t have anything to do with me, but it’s a strike. Next, I included my shoplifting arrest from 27 (I was 15) years ago for which there was no record, but I got the disposition letter for it. When I was telling him about it, I laughed a bit, not cuz I thought it was funny, but because of how stupid I was to do it and that I was embarrassed. I’m not sure he got it though, and wrote something down at that point. Great. I’ve had no issues since then, except 2 speeding tickets more than a decade ago. Then he asked me why only one of my references lived in our town. Well, for at least 20 of the 32 years I’ve known them, 3 of the 4 did live in town. Lastly, he asked when the last interaction with the police was. I told him it was when my wife had a panic attack and was taken to the hospital overnight. She’s needed nor received anything for it after that. Sometime during the interview he stated that the 2nd doesn’t guarantee anything and that the judge makes the final decision, but he only makes a recommendation. Seemed like he was deferring blame if I were to be denied. Sorry for the long post, but am I overanalyzing, or am I screwed? It’s been killing me since my interview.

 

[Podmonkey]

2nd does not gaurantee your right to own and carry firearms, it merely codifies your right that was granted to you by your birth as a human on this planet.
That said the sins of the father are not those of the son, and if you haven't a record you shouldn't have an issue but again you are in NY in an anti gun county. If you were just next door in Niagara county I think you would be good.
P.S. you see that that cop again you show him my post so he sees that I think is a tyrannical ass for thinking it is up to him or the judge, it shouldn't be, its against the law.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

I didn't read your post.

No.

Ha ha ha. Welcome to New York.

 

[tirwin1]

WTF does a conviction by your father 25 years ago have to do with you? This "elephant in the room" is horseshit, but I would not be surprised if you are denied given the obvious bias.

 

[Criticalt]

Isnt it nice to see how this police chief, who probably has numerous skeletons in his closet, makes you feel like a criminal?
About your question, who knows, the decision is up to a couple tough guys with authority.
There is no formula. You may get denied, then a guy with a far worse record gets his permit.
If the judge spilled coffee on himself that morning, or had a bad breakfast, you may be denied.
If he was lucky and the hooker last night finally got him off, you may get a permit.
Thats the HUGE problem in this state, no consistency.
If you lived here in Chautauqua Co, you would have your unrestricted permit in 4-6 months.

 

[Justincase]

2nd does not gaurantee your right to own and carry firearms, it merely codifies your right that was granted to you by your birth as a human on this planet.
That said the sins of the father are not those of the son, and if you haven't a record you shouldn't have an issue but again you are in NY in an anti gun county. If you were just next door in Niagara county I think you would be good.
P.S. you see that that cop again you show him my post so he sees that I think is a tyrannical ass for thinking it is up to him or the judge, it shouldn't be, its against the law.

I just may, lol. I think he lives right down the street from me.

 

[kev74]

In my experience, that's the default attitude of most cops talking to someone they don't know. They're used to dealing with scumbags all day. Don't worry about it.

 

[Jezman]

Do people without felony convictions, restraining orders, and/or those who haven’t had any documented issues with depression get denied for a CCP? I’m asking because I just didn’t get a good vibe (whatever that’s worth) from the police chief who did my face to face interview.

Here’s a few reasons I’m a bit worried that I may be denied. First, and he started the interview off by saying “Let’s start with the elephant in the room”. I’m a junior, and my dad has a pretty egregious felony conviction from 25 years ago.

I had a similar situation where I am the Jr and my Farther was involved in a case open. The Investigator asked what my involvement was with that situation, I replied that that was my farther not me. The Investigator responded well then this is a case of mistaken Identity. That how that stuff should go down. That is the proper professional moral response to that situation. The truth is and was neither you or I are involved in our farther affairs, unless you are or were. Which we know is not the case. So the investigating officer is a total tool. Very unprofessional and over stepping the law to include you in your fathers affairs. Unless you were involved. This is the shit that goes on everyday in NY because no one fights for it to be corrected. The only way to fight it is with Money and NY knows we don't have it because they take 60% of it. Pisses me off to no end to see oath takers treating the law with there emotions and own interpretations. Total hoarse shit. So sorry you live in an asshole ruled town.
There was no elephant in the room only a little man making his own rules. FUPC of that town.

 

[Jezman]

In my experience, that's the default attitude of most cops talking to someone they don't know. They're used to dealing with scumbags all day. Don't worry about it.

Yes but the Man is filling out a pistol permit, not a police report. So I have clients that piss me off but the next one does not get treated as the last one did me wrong. And why is it acceptable to be treated as a scumbag if your not?

 

[nortatoga]

Who said your fathers felon conviction was a strike, you or him?

And do you live with your father? ( Firearms may need to be secured from him )

 

[LexLooter]

Reminds me of going for my VA disability ratings. The Doc just kept saying shes only documenting stuff blah blah its up to other people. I analyze the shit out of things too. I live in Westchester, I cant have a CCP cause i have a pulse.

 

[Justincase]

In my experience, that's the default attitude of most cops talking to someone they don't know. They're used to dealing with scumbags all day. Don't worry about it.

In his defense, he did warm up a little toward the end of the interview. I was just worried cuz another person was interviewed by him and he was all chummy, and that was NOT how we was with me. Maybe I'm just an asshole, lol.

 

[Justincase]

Who said your fathers felon conviction was a strike, you or him?

And do you live with your father? ( Firearms may need to be secured from him )

He did ask what my relationship with my father was like. It's a good relationship, he is my dad after all, and he's always been the best father he could be to my sister and I. I don't live with him, but he comes over every week, and I discussed how all my firearms are locked separately from the ammo which is also locked.

 

[Frankly]

Are you financially obligated to any of the pistols you've been talking about? Worse case is you loose your investment in application fees?

I'm sorry it's such a pain in the ass.

I had a Shockwave pistol grip shotgun for HD while waiting for my permit, if you practice aiming the damn thing it's a pretty effective weapon.

 

[Justincase]

Are you financially obligated to any of the pistols you've been talking about? Worse case is you loose your investment in application fees?

I'm sorry it's such a pain in the ass.

I had a Shockwave pistol grip shotgun for HD while waiting for my permit, if you practice aiming the damn thing it's a pretty effective weapon.

Ummm, I may have counted my chickens before they hatched, lol.

Worst case is that I don't get the permit, really. I'd be devastated.

 

[kev74]

Yes but the Man is filling out a pistol permit, not a police report. So I have clients that piss me off but the next one does not get treated as the last one did me wrong. And why is it acceptable to be treated as a scumbag if your not?

I interview people several times a day for my work. When I have the slightest inclination someone is lying to me, I default to dick mode. For me, that attitude is a tool I can use to determine if someone is being truthful or not. I don't know if its nervousness or what, but most people if they're not telling the truth, will start contradicting themselves like crazy when you make them uncomfortable and give them time to speak.

 

[Justincase]

It's funny. I was hoping you guys would be like, "nahh, you have no convictions, you're not mental, you've got nothing to worry about". Now I'm really nervous, lol.

Really though, what reason would they be able to give for not approving me? You guys are probably going to say "they don't need a reason". Thanks. Thanks for nothing.

 

[kev74]

From what you posted, I don't think they'll deny you.

I know of people with several convictions under their belts who have permits.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

It's funny. I was hoping you guys would be like, "nahh, you have no convictions, you're not mental, you've got nothing to worry about". Now I'm really nervous, lol.

Really though, what reason would they be able to give for not approving me? You guys are probably going to say "they don't need a reason". Thanks. Thanks for nothing.

Sadly, they don't need a real reason. It's "may" issue, not shall. There is no consistency with any part of the process throughout the counties with exception of the actual application form. It's cold comfort, but it's out of your hands now. Best advice is to try and put it out of your mind as best you can. I wouldn't over think it or look too much into the officer's demeanor. He may have been an ass, but it's like you said, you don't have any felonies and your dad's record is your dad's record, not yours. Hopefully the judge who gets your application is a better person than the officer who interviewed you. Try to think positive. Keep us updated.

 

[Armyman 73]

Sad thing is they don't give a reason, which is why you end up doing an Article 78 to find out why and plead your case.

 

[Justincase]

Sad thing is they don't give a reason, which is why you end up doing an Article 78 to find out why and plead your case.

So, CAN you plead your case? Have people lawyered up and had the decision reversed?

 

[Phazer]

I live in Westchester, I cant have a CCP cause i have a pulse.

This is way too true. Sad, but true.

 

[nortatoga]

You really need to settle down!! As to your last ? in your first post, Yes I think you are over analyzing!! If I'm wrong there is nothing you can do till they notify you one way or the other!

 

[Justincase]

You really need to settle down!! As to your last ? in your first post, Yes I think you are over analyzing!! If I'm wrong there is nothing you can do till they notify you one way or the other!

I know you're completely right. I'm totally getting ahead of myself. I just can't stand things that affect me so much, but I have absolutely no control over.

 

[VietnamEraVet]

Hey @Justincase ,

Keep your head up until, and if, you get denied. If you do get denied, think seriously about how to appeal, and do not delay. Until then, try to stay calm, and just put it out of your mind.

I got mine here in Erie County a few years ago, but I feel as though it was not straightforward. I believe the Judge saw through the BS that was flung at me though. Hopefully, you have explained your issues in a letter to the Judge. I do think that can help when there are "added considerations" sometimes.

In my case, I am a business owner who works alone a lot; carries large amounts of cash, etc. I am also a Honorably Discharged US Navy vet who served during, but not in, Vietnam. I think I have had one speeding ticket in the last 40 years, and no other driving issues.

Here are my added considerations that the Judge had to consider: when I was 18, I was arrested and pled guilty to a disorderly conduct type violation (non criminal); when I applied at the PPO, and they told me it would be 12-18 months, - based on my life working in the faster moving private sector, and knowing that the law says they have 6 months to process permit applications, I complained to them. And when they laughed in my face, I went over their heads to their boss, Erie County Clerk Chris Jacobs. That, of course, put me on the PPO's shit list. (I got the proof later when I FOI'D my file through the Clerk's Office). The PPO sent my file separately to my local PD, and wrote to them, complaining that I must be looking to murder someone since I was in such a hurry for my permit. No kidding, - that is seriously what they wrote on my file!

At the same time as my application was pending, I was going through a very nasty divorce. Also, both of my parents died, and my two siblings decided to screw with me in order to try and keep me from being the named Executor. How? Well, they filed numerous false police incident reports alleging all kinds of BS that NEVER EVER happened (also known as that classic divorce maneuver of filing a complaint saying that "he's bigger than me, he's mean, he can be loud, and I'm afraid of him..."). One even SWAT'ed me when I didn't even have a firearm. They knew that if I was convicted, that they could prevent me from being named an Executor under NYS law.

My references, - who have known me for most of my life, were discounted in part because they questioned if one was a girlfriend (because obviously "girlfriends" can't be trusted, even though she was not my girlfriend); one had been arrested previously and had been acquitted of disorderly conduct, unbeknownst to me. Two of the four were CCW holders, including the one acquitted.

But the local PD Chief wrote to the PPO, and responding to the fact that I had admonished the PPO to follow the 6 months that the law specified, he wrote "Well, since (the applicant) doesn't want to wait for the 12-18 months the PPO is taking, I feel he is unlikely to follow the law if he is granted a permit, so I am recommending that he be denied one". IMHO, he is an asshole, and his actions are a classic example as to why it should be a "shall issue" rather than a "may issue" process, - if permits are required in the first place.

The point I am trying to make is that shit can seem to pile up, and the process can take so long that it becomes absolutely aggravating. Actually, I think they may be deliberately taking so long in part to see what your temperment is like, and if you keep your cool in spite of how aggravating the situation can be. It may be nearly impossible, but try to put it out of your head until you hear something, and then, if it goes badly, take proper action to try and fix it.

Good Luck to you. Hang in there. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk or need additional details to help you.

 

[Bananabandit]

You cant play in the big boys club!

 

[Phazer]

You cant play in the big boys club!

You mean he's gonna have to play with Gov. Monkeyface, then?

 

[Bananabandit]

You mean he's gonna have to play with Gov. Monkeyface, then?

Yup. White boy to the back of the sandbox!

 

[Justincase]

Hey @Justincase ,

Keep your head up until, and if, you get denied. If you do get denied, think seriously about how to appeal, and do not delay. Until then, try to stay calm, and just put it out of your mind.

I got mine here in Erie County a few years ago, but I feel as though it was not straightforward. I believe the Judge saw through the BS that was flung at me though. Hopefully, you have explained your issues in a letter to the Judge. I do think that can help when there are "added considerations" sometimes.

In my case, I am a business owner who works alone a lot; carries large amounts of cash, etc. I am also a Honorably Discharged US Navy vet who served during, but not in, Vietnam. I think I have had one speeding ticket in the last 40 years, and no other driving issues.

Here are my added considerations that the Judge had to consider: when I was 18, I was arrested and pled guilty to a disorderly conduct type violation (non criminal); when I applied at the PPO, and they told me it would be 12-18 months, - based on my life working in the faster moving private sector, and knowing that the law says they have 6 months to process permit applications, I complained to them. And when they laughed in my face, I went over their heads to their boss, Erie County Clerk Chris Jacobs. That, of course, put me on the PPO's shit list. (I got the proof later when I FOI'D my file through the Clerk's Office). The PPO sent my file separately to my local PD, and wrote to them, complaining that I must be looking to murder someone since I was in such a hurry for my permit. No kidding, - that is seriously what they wrote on my file!

At the same time as my application was pending, I was going through a very nasty divorce. Also, both of my parents died, and my two siblings decided to screw with me in order to try and keep me from being the named Executor. How? Well, they filed numerous false police incident reports alleging all kinds of BS that NEVER EVER happened (also known as that classic divorce maneuver of filing a complaint saying that "he's bigger than me, he's mean, he can be loud, and I'm afraid of him..."). One even SWAT'ed me when I didn't even have a firearm. They knew that if I was convicted, that they could prevent me from being named an Executor under NYS law.

My references, - who have known me for most of my life, were discounted in part because they questioned if one was a girlfriend (because obviously "girlfriends" can't be trusted, even though she was not my girlfriend); one had been arrested previously and had been acquitted of disorderly conduct, unbeknownst to me. Two of the four were CCW holders, including the one acquitted.

But the local PD Chief wrote to the PPO, and responding to the fact that I had admonished the PPO to follow the 6 months that the law specified, he wrote "Well, since (the applicant) doesn't want to wait for the 12-18 months the PPO is taking, I feel he is unlikely to follow the law if he is granted a permit, so I am recommending that he be denied one". IMHO, he is an asshole, and his actions are a classic example as to why it should be a "shall issue" rather than a "may issue" process, - if permits are required in the first place.

The point I am trying to make is that shit can seem to pile up, and the process can take so long that it becomes absolutely aggravating. Actually, I think they may be deliberately taking so long in part to see what your temperment is like, and if you keep your cool in spite of how aggravating the situation can be. It may be nearly impossible, but try to put it out of your head until you hear something, and then, if it goes badly, take proper action to try and fix it.

Good Luck to you. Hang in there. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk or need additional details to help you.

Thanks for the sage advice. I'm very likely overreacting, but I've wanted a pistol permit forever. Life just got in the way. Now that I'm so "close", I can't help but second guess things.

 

[spat]

Ummm, I may have counted my chickens before they hatched, lol.

Worst case is that I don't get the permit, really. I'd be devastated.

If you get denied, get a lawyer.

They do not want to have to defend such a denial in court. If they continued it would eventually end the "may issue" system because it is so obviously illegal.

Most likely they would just "change their mind" once they found they would have to defend it. That alone is proof of the arbitrary nature IMHO.