AR pistols on permits..
- Thread starter turbobike
- Start date
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
Why the hell do the uppers have to be listed? Why would one even put that down if you were required to?
PutnamCharlie
6.5 Creedmoor
If upper will be used as a pistol you have to. You cant just use a rifle upper to make a pistol. Pistol to rifle = okay . Rifle to pistol = no way
Not so much about uppers, they want to see calibers. Mines listed as 5.56/22lr
JRtraderny
6.5 Creedmoor
They had that same hissy fit yrs ago with the T/C Contenders , Assholes .
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
Understood but that's not what I'm asking. Say I put a 556 pistol with a 10 inch barrel on a permit. Why would I make it known if I buy other uppers in other calibers? They're just uppers. Who's to say I'm even putting them on the receiver? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding the OP.
PutnamCharlie
6.5 Creedmoor
You are correct. I wasn't thinking very clearly on that one. I was thinking lower but saying upper.
Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
I heard this from another source but I couldn’t verify it so I kept quiet. I heard the state police were asking the counties for names of those with AR pistols on their permits. Not sure why since they should have the info no?
That_FNG
.308 Win
My new AR pistol has all the calibers for it listed on my permit as required by law.
My permit says the following:
22 cal, 30 cal, 35 cal, 357 cal, 40 cal, 45 cal and 50 cal.
following the law and being listed as such allows me to shoot the following cartridges:
22LR, 223 Remington, 300 blackout, 350 legend, 357 sig, 9x19, 40 smith and Wesson, 10x25 auto, 400 legend, 45 acp, 45 super and 450 bushmaster.
you would think they would have wrote the law to require the cartridges to be listed, but they wanted caliber so I was happy to oblige with the bore measurements.
My permit says the following:
22 cal, 30 cal, 35 cal, 357 cal, 40 cal, 45 cal and 50 cal.
following the law and being listed as such allows me to shoot the following cartridges:
22LR, 223 Remington, 300 blackout, 350 legend, 357 sig, 9x19, 40 smith and Wesson, 10x25 auto, 400 legend, 45 acp, 45 super and 450 bushmaster.
you would think they would have wrote the law to require the cartridges to be listed, but they wanted caliber so I was happy to oblige with the bore measurements.
That_FNG
.308 Win
That is listed incorrectly then. Those are cartridges. Your permit should just have 22 caliber listed on it as those are all 22 caliber. The law uses the word caliber and not cartridge so that would not be technically complying with the law.
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
It's been so long since I lived in that place of madness but I'm looking at my old permit right now. It lists the make, caliber, serial number and model. For calibers, some of the listed are 9MM, 44MAG, 5.45x37 (lol it actually says x37). Maybe it's different in different parts of the state but it was definitely cartridges for mine. So if I'm hearing this correctly, if you bought a glock 23 and then bought a 9mm conversion kit you would actually report that?
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
Cal .. Multi ..
You are correct. Just stating what's listed on my permit.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Pistol requires caliber to be listed.
If you have several uppers all the same caliber, I guess you only have to list one.
I'm not sure what the real world risk really is of having multiple uppers but only listing one on your permit though.
The only actual penalty would be the same as swapping to a different caliber barrel in a regular pistol without telling them.
Basically, they only sort of circumstances where you're going to get charged are ones where they're going to find *somethign* to charge you with no matter how careful you are.
I just noticed this for Worstchester County:
You may be able to just put the serial number, check the 'frame only' box, and enter 'multi' and that would suffice for the AR pistols that are out there (or likely to be built) to add a 'serialized lower' AR pistol to your license. Am I reading this right so we can carry concealed (if already permitted to do so) with the AR pistols?
You may be able to just put the serial number, check the 'frame only' box, and enter 'multi' and that would suffice for the AR pistols that are out there (or likely to be built) to add a 'serialized lower' AR pistol to your license. Am I reading this right so we can carry concealed (if already permitted to do so) with the AR pistols?
Fed law says...Pistol, rifle, Shotgun, other.......
If you have an AR pistol in NYS, you cannot possibly have used a rifle lower, to make a pistol...........only a Mfg designated, Pistol lower, on the 4473.......... and SBR's are not legal in NYS......
If you have extra AR pistol uppers........they may be considered SBR's by themselves or illegal pistols.
Arm braces?
I suspect any AR pistol listed in NYS, will be checked against the Mfg's records.....AI can do it in a flash.
If you have an AR pistol in NYS, you cannot possibly have used a rifle lower, to make a pistol...........only a Mfg designated, Pistol lower, on the 4473.......... and SBR's are not legal in NYS......
If you have extra AR pistol uppers........they may be considered SBR's by themselves or illegal pistols.
Arm braces?
I suspect any AR pistol listed in NYS, will be checked against the Mfg's records.....AI can do it in a flash.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
There is no such thing as a rifle upper.
The lower is all that matters.
It's perfectly legal for me to stick the upper from my rifle on my pistol lower. If I do, then I just have a perfectly legal 16" barreled pistol.
It's only an SBR if I put the short barreled upper from my pistol on my rifle lower.
In fact, if you take a 14" barreled pistol lower, and permanently attach a 2" flash hider to it, then you can stick that on your rifle lower at will too.
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
Right. At the end of the day this is all nonsense. On the federal and state level. I will say though that if I would have bought any barrels/conversion kits that could go into my pistols back when I was in NY I would have NEVER reported it. But I guess some do.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Wonder what happens if you just list the same lower over and over under different calibers.
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
don't list anything .. what was the numbers to sign up for the unsafe act .. LOL
There are AR rifle uppers @ 16"+, and SBR uppers less than 16", but both have to be 26" overall...................
A SBR hs a dedicated serial number lower... and a uses bbl shorter than 16", but overall length has to be 26" to be a SBR.
A SBR is registered, cannot be made into a rifle or pistol. SBR forever................though it is done everyday in basements.
Any upper, with a bbl shorter than 16"............ with no dedicated Fed registered SBR lower.......... and without a buttstock, IS a pistol by itself.......or could be considered an illegal SBR, depending upon the case in the hands of prosecutors
Pistols usually are built on a Frame,.............so the law may be against possessing any extra loose 10" AR uppers, especially in NYS
AR 's with a buttstock, and bbl shorter than 16" = SBR
Listing multiple caliber uppers, with shorter than 16" barrels, for just one pistol lower...............pistol may be bad juju legally.
It obviously has drawn interest.
I have fired.223 SBR's in Pa, and .223 pistols..................muzzle blast in insane. Like setting off a cherry bomb just in front of your muzzle. Blinding flash and roar...
I don't need one.
A SBR hs a dedicated serial number lower... and a uses bbl shorter than 16", but overall length has to be 26" to be a SBR.
A SBR is registered, cannot be made into a rifle or pistol. SBR forever................though it is done everyday in basements.
Any upper, with a bbl shorter than 16"............ with no dedicated Fed registered SBR lower.......... and without a buttstock, IS a pistol by itself.......or could be considered an illegal SBR, depending upon the case in the hands of prosecutors
Pistols usually are built on a Frame,.............so the law may be against possessing any extra loose 10" AR uppers, especially in NYS
AR 's with a buttstock, and bbl shorter than 16" = SBR
Listing multiple caliber uppers, with shorter than 16" barrels, for just one pistol lower...............pistol may be bad juju legally.
It obviously has drawn interest.
I have fired.223 SBR's in Pa, and .223 pistols..................muzzle blast in insane. Like setting off a cherry bomb just in front of your muzzle. Blinding flash and roar...
I don't need one.
If not a pistol as defined before all the stupid crap the ATF tried and failed.
It is an SBR if it has a stock and a barrel length of less than 16 inches or have an OAL of less than 26 inches. It can have a 16” barrel and an OAL of less than 26” and still be considered a SBR.
That_FNG
.308 Win
I agree on the SBR .223 / AR pistol in .223. Very loud and blasty. Like a portable flash bang dispenser. I do however enjoy shooting an AR pistols/SBR in 300 blackout. Subsonic / supersonic. Those are enjoyable
JaguarJaguarGolf
6.5 Creedmoor
My G23 is on license as 40/9/357. When filing amendment CC wanted receipts from where I bought 9mm & 357 Sig barrels
That_FNG
.308 Win
300 blackout AR pistols make sense. Less blasty then 5.56 and more muzzle energy then a comparably sized pistol caliber AR pistol. An AR pistol in 300 blackout with a 8-8.5 inch barrel is better than a comparable one in 9mm, 40 or 45.
FrankenCub
.338 Win Mag
Some counties that was fine. Broome wouldn't allow it, wanted every caliber listed.
Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
That’s hilarious.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
An SBR does not need to be 26" overall.
Any rifle meant to be fired from the shoulder
that is under 26" overall length (measured parallel to the axis or the bore) *or* with a barrel under 16" is an SBR.
The defining characteristic is that it is shoulder fired. That is the only difference between a rifle and a pistol, the shoulder stock.
That is why all the brouhaha over the pistol braces. If they are a stock it's an SBR, if not it's a pistol.
So, a 30 inch rifle with a 15" barrel and a stock is an SBR.
A 24 inch rifle with a 17" barrel and a shoulder stock is an SBR.
Either of those without the shoulder stock are just pistols.
A firearm with a 26" barrel but no shoulder stock is still a pistol.