Army announces new cartridge
- Thread starter Robin
- Start date
ManrisFrack
6.5 Creedmoor
I don't know if they'll hit those numbers in a reliable package but evidently that's what they're looking for. One thing is for sure, they're definitely looking for that one do-it-all magic round.
You have to remember, the bullet choice has already been made and 6mm wasn't it. I'm not sure why, but I suspect it has to do with pressure efficiency while also being able to hit minimums for BC, SD and others. The whole method of making the projectile the constant of the project seemed to be a departure from normal military development and the chosen bullet just makes things seem even more strange. .277 is one of the more underutilized bores and, while good, you don't hear hunters, shooters or wildcatters saying, 'oh yeah, that .277 140gr pill is my secret sauce'.
The high recoil is an excellent point and I don't think brass realizes how much of a problem it could be. I think they're stuck on maintaining high velocities at range for armor penetration and don't have a realistic view of the sacrifices needed to get that.
But you're right, trying to apply logic to figure out what they're doing and why they're doing it is probably foolish.
You have to remember, the bullet choice has already been made and 6mm wasn't it. I'm not sure why, but I suspect it has to do with pressure efficiency while also being able to hit minimums for BC, SD and others. The whole method of making the projectile the constant of the project seemed to be a departure from normal military development and the chosen bullet just makes things seem even more strange. .277 is one of the more underutilized bores and, while good, you don't hear hunters, shooters or wildcatters saying, 'oh yeah, that .277 140gr pill is my secret sauce'.
The high recoil is an excellent point and I don't think brass realizes how much of a problem it could be. I think they're stuck on maintaining high velocities at range for armor penetration and don't have a realistic view of the sacrifices needed to get that.
But you're right, trying to apply logic to figure out what they're doing and why they're doing it is probably foolish.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
They keep saying armor. What armor? Is this round going to penetrate AR500 plates? If so, they are living a dream.
I am now quite convinced this is all vaporware.
There is no way on earth the 5.56 is going to be replaced with a magnum level cartridge. You all realize this right? A 140gr bullet @ 3200fps is a spicier meatball than a 7mm Remington Magnum. If anyone here thinks the military is going to replace the 5.56 with a cartridge bigger and more powerful than the 7.62x51..... by a substantial margin....... please PM me- I have an exciting real estate deal I'd like to bring you in on. This is an even wilder goose chase than usual for the military small arms pipe dream factories.
P.S. I just watched the entire Pentagon Wars movie. I highly recommend it, look it up on YouTube you can see the whole thing for free. In the clips it comes across as a comedy but the whole movie is more of a drama, one that will hit home with anyone that served in the military and experienced first hand the callous disconnect between the top brass and soldiers on the line. And it serves as a stark highlight to the nonsense of this supposed new cartridge.
This pie in the sky 6.8 super cartridge is not what our soilders need. In fact it will put them at risk on the battlefield by reducing their ability to provide effective fire.
There is no way on earth the 5.56 is going to be replaced with a magnum level cartridge. You all realize this right? A 140gr bullet @ 3200fps is a spicier meatball than a 7mm Remington Magnum. If anyone here thinks the military is going to replace the 5.56 with a cartridge bigger and more powerful than the 7.62x51..... by a substantial margin....... please PM me- I have an exciting real estate deal I'd like to bring you in on. This is an even wilder goose chase than usual for the military small arms pipe dream factories.
P.S. I just watched the entire Pentagon Wars movie. I highly recommend it, look it up on YouTube you can see the whole thing for free. In the clips it comes across as a comedy but the whole movie is more of a drama, one that will hit home with anyone that served in the military and experienced first hand the callous disconnect between the top brass and soldiers on the line. And it serves as a stark highlight to the nonsense of this supposed new cartridge.
This pie in the sky 6.8 super cartridge is not what our soilders need. In fact it will put them at risk on the battlefield by reducing their ability to provide effective fire.
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Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Think I'll wait and see how things shake out.
Robin
Robin
So here is a look at sigs "6.8 hybrid"
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
General Dynamics' Next Generation Squad Weapon – The RM277
There have been murmurings that their submission would be a bullpup for sometime and it has now been confirmed, meet the General Dynamics RM277. We take a detailed look at what we know so far.
www.thefirearmblog.com
Exonautic
.308 Win
Well that looks interesting
Too bad it doesn't seem like this will be a viable commercial round anytime soon. I don't imagine commodore casings are particularly cheap.
Too bad it doesn't seem like this will be a viable commercial round anytime soon. I don't imagine commodore casings are particularly cheap.
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
If we are still a free people, someone will figure an economical way for the home reloader to produce his own. To me, it somehow seems important that we should be able to make and use the same cartridge configuration as our troops.
Robin
Robin
Exonautic
.308 Win
Wonder if it's a common polymer? May be time to invest in a 3-d printer
Not gonna happen. Just another money wasting project in a decades long string of abandoned projects. Remember how sure the Army was that they would adopt the XM8?
Also bulpups are dead. Most nations that adopted them are replacing them with standard types. I never met a bullpup I liked.
Also bulpups are dead. Most nations that adopted them are replacing them with standard types. I never met a bullpup I liked.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Except the P90.
I suppose. But I never handled one so I couldn't really say. And I like the P90 from the stand point of a vehicle crewman that would hope to never actually use his gun and thus would want it as small, light and unobtrusive as possible. I wouldn't want to rely on it as a primary weapon.
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
US Army's NGSW Program Awards SIG Sauer, AAI & General Dynamics
US Army's NGSW Program Awards SIG Sauer, AAI & General Dynamics: TFB have been closely following developments in the US Army's next generation small arms program but it has been a while since we heard any major developments. The Army have now announced the award of 3 contracts for prototypes...
www.thefirearmblog.com
The Army just took a major step towards its next-generation M4 carbine and M249 SAW replacement
The U.S. Army has selected three firms to advance to the next phase of testing to select the service's Next Generation Squad Weapon
taskandpurpose.com
I call BS until I actually see something adopted.
All these reports are dodgy. I'll bet a million dollars that the 140gr @ 3200fps is total nonsense. If the brass adopts something like that for use in infantry carbines the need to be shot with it.
All these reports are dodgy. I'll bet a million dollars that the 140gr @ 3200fps is total nonsense. If the brass adopts something like that for use in infantry carbines the need to be shot with it.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
What would the recoil be like on that for CQB? The .270 Weatherby Magnum 130 gr which is the closest to this fictional 6.8 has pretty stout recoil. I agree that it isn’t a good fit for an infantryman kicking in doors and if it’s just for a crew served machine gun, there is nothing that this 6.8 can do that a 7.62 cannot.
As I said before those ballistics are about what the 7mm Rem Mag does. Entirely unsuitable for use in an infantry carbine.
7mm Remington Magnum
| Bullet mass/type | Velocity | Energy |
|---|---|---|
| 110 gr (7 g) Barnes TTS [1] | 3,500 ft/s (1,100 m/s) | 2,992 ft⋅lbf (4,057 J) |
| 140 gr (9 g) Nosler AB [2][permanent dead link] | 3,110 ft/s (950 m/s) | 3,006 ft⋅lbf (4,076 J) |
| 150 gr (10 g) Soft Point [3] | 3,110 ft/s (950 m/s) | 3,221 ft⋅lbf (4,367 J) |
| 165 gr (11 g) Sierra GK BT [4] | 2,950 ft/s (900 m/s) | 3,188 ft⋅lbf (4,322 J) |
| 175 gr (11 g) Soft Point [5] | 2,860 ft/s (870 m/s) | 3,178 ft⋅lbf (4,309 J) |
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7.62x51 NATO
| Bullet mass/type | Velocity | Energy |
|---|---|---|
| 147 gr (10 g) M80 FMJ | 2,800 ft/s (850 m/s) | 2,559 ft⋅lbf (3,470 J) |
| 175 gr (11 g) M118 Long Range BTHP | 2,600 ft/s (790 m/s) | 2,626 ft⋅lbf (3,560 J) |
7.62x39, What I consider to be the absolute upper limit of controlability in an infantry carbine
5.56x45
| Bullet mass/type | Velocity | Energy |
|---|---|---|
| 3.56 g (55 gr) XM193 FMJBT | 993 m/s (3,260 ft/s) | 1,755 J (1,294 ft⋅lbf) |
| 4 g (62 gr) SS109 FMJBT | 948 m/s (3,110 ft/s) | 1,797 J (1,325 ft⋅lbf) |
| 4 g (62 gr) M855A1 FMJBT | 961 m/s (3,150 ft/s) | 1,859 J (1,371 ft⋅lbf) |
| 4.1 g (63 gr) DM11 FMJBT | 856 m/s (2,810 ft/s) | 1,796 J (1,325 ft⋅lbf) |
| 4.1 g (63 gr) GP 90 FMJBT | 851 m/s (2,790 ft/s) | 1,679 J (1,238 ft⋅lbf) |
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
A well designed and engineered gun. According to the expert naysayers, there hasn't been one since...........
.......and their misgivings came back to bite them.
Robin
.......and their misgivings came back to bite them.
Robin
SmallGameAddict
.308 Win
I say....the Boys at Winchester can correct the mistake they made in 1963 when they foolishly spent all those R&D $$$ on the .284 Win, and neck down the .308 Win to accept the .277" bullets of the lone wolf .270 Win, and call it the .277 Winchester, and the US military can call it the 6.8x51 NATO.
Time to turn out the lights and go home.
Time to turn out the lights and go home.
One of these rifles will become the Army's next-generation weapon of choice
The U.S. Army's Next Generation Squad Weapon effort looked a lot more possible this week as the three competing weapons firms displayed their prototype 6.8mm rifles and automatic rifles at the 2019 Association of the United States Army's annual meeting
taskandpurpose.com