When you think it can't happen to you, that's right when it does. I also imagine that as a secondary arm the Army figures that saftey trumps other concerns. And some of the lieutenants I served with I can't say the Army is wrong here.
Beretta Launches New APX Pistol
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Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
No. Why would you ever need to decock a pistol and give yourself a heavier pull?
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
Because carrying in single action without a safety is a terrible idea.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Why is it so modded? I thought they were "perfection"
Following doctors orders.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
That's why strikers are better because single and double action combined is a terrible idea.
I get the same thing in one trigger with the striker. Just go to the reset and fire again.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
You can't decock with the hammer and the trigger?
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
People with a disrupted Central Nervous System who might involuntarily unholster a gun plus pull the trigger
following uncontrollable movement and spasms should not use a glock though.
I think the point and shoot is a very good idea. It is such a great idea that 80% of law enforcement chose to go wiht this among
millions of others world wide.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
Not if you know what your doing with one. DA/SA is not all that hard to get the hang of. Plenty of expert shooters use them. A nice SA pull is a beautiful thing. As for the decocker. Thumbing the hammer can be dangerous. One slip and it could go bang.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Training. Like I said. It is for people that cannot trust themselves. I used to play around and do it with my 1911 all the time.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
That is true about spasms, but how is a sig 229 not point and shoot? NC highway patrol uses 226's in .357 sig and the ones I shot with were very impressive. LEO's are not know for their shooting ability for the most part. Some are of course but most only qualify and that's it. If you shot twice a year I agree a glock is a better option. It's easier to train someone on a striker fired pistol. I agree with that 100%.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
Sorry but that is absolutely idiotic. Any instructor will tell you not to thumb the hammer on a sig or other da/sa. They don't have safeties like a 1911. Try doing that under stress after a shooting.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Which brings me back to why hammers and safeties are not needed when it's time to get busy.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
You didn't know that thumbing the hammer will make some sigs not drop safe did you? The decocker is so easy to use and sigs have no safety.
What DA/SA gives you is safety and speed at the cost of having to learn to make that double to single action transition. The decocker is absolutely necessary as the single action pull is very short and light and you need a method to safely drop the hammer when you reholster. You wouldn't carry a 1911 cocked with the safety off would you? Thumbing the hammer down is dangerous and just begging for an ND. I think when learned the DA/SA is a very versatile, safe and fast action. But it does require a greater commitment to practice and this is why the striker gun has superceded it.
Oh and I think hammers are superior to strikers.
1 the trigger feel is typically better.
2 you get a dead trigger on a striker gun and you have no choice but to rack the slide. With a DA hammer gun you have the option of simply pulling the trigger again.
Oh and I think hammers are superior to strikers.
1 the trigger feel is typically better.
2 you get a dead trigger on a striker gun and you have no choice but to rack the slide. With a DA hammer gun you have the option of simply pulling the trigger again.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
You guys aren't getting the point. All you just said is why hammer fired weapons shouldn't be used in combat. If used, you need all the extra shit that goes along with it complicating the firearm.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
Will.... Have you been drinking tonight? Elite combat units all over the world have been using them for decades and still will. Many will not transition to the 19. All you do is point said pistol and pull the trigger. When the threat is a threat no more you use the decocker. It's point and shoot. Just like a glock with a better trigger. You do have to learn two trigger pulls but if you stick with one platform and shoot more than twice a year it's no big deal. I have a 220 with a custom shop srt trigger that is smooth as could be. If shooting a .45 would not cause you to burst into flames you are more than welcome to try it. It's a smooth DA pull followed by an amazing sa pull.
No offense sir, truly none meant, but if you do that out in the real world you are being reckless. Maybe you can get away with it at the range where an ND may just mean shooting the floor or ceiling. I've never been in combat but I have had to draw on another human being in self defence and in my experience your fine motor skills go right out the window. My heart was pounding and my hands were trembling. As was my finger on the trigger. The long heavy pull of my P239's trigger was a comfort, I can tell you that. I have since moved to Striker guns myself but the more I think about it, the more I want to dedicate myself to relearning the DA/SA action.
Disagree completely, for the same reasons.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
That's like saying the army combat uniform was a great idea.
It happens because a General makes the decision rather than the troops. It's the same reason why the NYPD puts 12 pound triggers on their guns. It's the same reason why some police departments would not go to hollow points until they were the last ones.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
See post 135.
Dude the SA trigger pull of a typical SIG is around 3lbs, and mouse click short. Not at all safe to carry it that way I don't care how much training is involved, the decocker is an integral component of the proper operation of the pistol. Under stress your ability to think and perform a slashed to a fraction of what they are normally, you know that. Having a margin of error is a desirable thing, particularly if it doesn't slow you down which is the whole point of DA/SA.
We are just going to have to agree to disagree. Preferences are preferences but some of your perceptions are just flat out wrong. Doesn't matter as it does not effect the safe and effective operation of your chosen system.
Way off topic, yikes. I gotta get some sleep, I need to hit the road early.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
Some units can carry whatever they want. Seals for example. They carry 220's 226's m9's that h&k 1911's and glocks. Cops also carry glocks because they were basically free. Once they made the switch ND's went up quite a bit. That's a training issue of course.
And the ACU was great idea. If you want to look like a moving boulder.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
Look, all this subtle talk of "getting busy" and "privates" isn't fooling anyone.
Are we doing this thing or not? The astroglide is getting tacky.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Look to each their own. Of course decocking a hammer under stress is dangerous. That's was my point all along. It's something that shouldn't have to be done at all under stress but because you have to, now you have an extra lever on your gun so that you can safely do it.
Then the factors of different trigger pulls come into play. It's dark. Multiple shots are fired. Did I fire the first shot? Is my trigger pull now going to be 3 pounds instead of 6? Hold on. Let me check. Did I decock it a minute ago when the shooting stopped? Should I decock it now?
And don't say you never got distracted at the range and tried to fire with the safety on. It happens to everyone. It could happen under stress too.
It's all nonsense you shouldn't have to deal with. Especially at an older age or if you got hit.
Just point and shoot. No safety. All trigger pulls are the same at around 4 pounds and you have a choice if you want the short reset. You are done shooting, you release the trigger and back into the holster.
It's so simple. That's why it's called.... Perfection..
Then the factors of different trigger pulls come into play. It's dark. Multiple shots are fired. Did I fire the first shot? Is my trigger pull now going to be 3 pounds instead of 6? Hold on. Let me check. Did I decock it a minute ago when the shooting stopped? Should I decock it now?
And don't say you never got distracted at the range and tried to fire with the safety on. It happens to everyone. It could happen under stress too.
It's all nonsense you shouldn't have to deal with. Especially at an older age or if you got hit.
Just point and shoot. No safety. All trigger pulls are the same at around 4 pounds and you have a choice if you want the short reset. You are done shooting, you release the trigger and back into the holster.
It's so simple. That's why it's called.... Perfection..
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It's nothing more than a training issue. Take for instance driving a car, Stick-vs-Automatic. Professional racers have used both and think nothing off it because of the amount of use. When I would drive my Jeep with a stick it was second nature along with my Motorcycle. Nothing to it. YES I can Walk and chew bubble gum at the same time! 
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
Speaking of dangerous under stress.... It's been said that re-holstering is where most ND's happen. Being able to ride the hammer while re-holstering is an asset. I think Walther got it right with the pps (I think). It's striker fired but you can keep a thumb on the back and re-holster and it won't fire if something is in the trigger guard.
and for the 10th time THERE ARE NO EXTERNAL SAFTIES ON A SIG. Have you ever shot one?
"It's so simple. That's why it's called.... Perfection.."
More like perfection for simple people..........
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
Should rifles have safties? Why or why not?