The difference was McCarty was right all along. We need more like him right now more than ever.
Capitol rioter charged with threatening to 'assassinate' Rep. Ocasio-Cortez
- Thread starter livingston
- Start date
The difference was McCarty was right all along. We need more like him right now more than ever.
One system is based on belief in equality, the other is based on belief in supremacy. There is something in common between all systems. The difference is fundamental belief. "People belong to the state" in every system, more or less.
I disagree. I think....well at least I used to think that people believed our system was based on equality of opportunity. Anyone can be anything if they work hard enough and are disciplined enough and have the physical and mental abilities.
Lately I'm not so sure anymore.
I disagree. I think....well at least I used to think that people believed our system was based on equality of opportunity. Anyone can be anything if they work hard enough and are disciplined enough and have the physical and mental abilities.
Lately I'm not so sure anymore.
I don't believe our system is based on equality, but the post you responded to was about Marxism v. Fascism.
spat
.950 JDJ
There was one system founded 200 years ago that was based on the opposite premise....
You claim words matter, then utter this?
You honestly can't tell the difference between "BY the People, FOR the People" and "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"?
Let me try to break it down into simpler language.
The first is people coming together to work for a common goal. This is a choice.
The second is people being FORCED to do work they otherwise would not have chosen to work for elites. There is no choice permitted to the individual.
spat
.950 JDJ
Funny, the very foundation of our system is based on "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal...".
They are the first, most important words in our original founding document.
To say that our system isn't based on equality is ridiculous.
4WHLDRFTN
.308 Win
so all the threats against Trump are ok 
By the people, for the people is a meaningless phrase as it applies to every system of government. Hollow rhetoric that sounds good but means nothing. Both, the government and the public is made up of people. Which system empowers elites is highly debatable.
Our system is anything, but people coming together or common goal. National unity is more of a Marxism or Fascism thing.
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Created equal, CREATED. That's not the same as being equal, and it has nothing to do with the Marxism v. Fascism conversation.
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spat
.950 JDJ
Well, anyone who thinks that all people *are* equal is an idiot.
Joseph Mengele and Jonas Salk are not equal.
They may have been born with equal rights, but they are not equal.
This is not mathematics, it's politics. Equal doesn't mean the same. Obviously it means how people are treated.
spat
.950 JDJ
Yes, and Joseph Mengele should not be treated the same as Jonas Salk.
Two people should face equal punishment for committing the same crime(s). This is not usually the case in this country, since wealth plays a role in who gets punished and who doesn't. Not sure what war criminal and scientist who lived in different countries has to do with this.
spat
.950 JDJ
They are 2 people who are not equal, and shouldn't be considered equal under any reasonable system at all.
They were born with equal natural rights, but choices they made along the course of their life changed that drastically.
Celt
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Lead and titanium are both classified as metals, but are on different ends of the spectrum. Wood on the other hand is not.
There are specific differences between communism, socialism, and facism but they all lean towards "the collective" over individual liberty so they are often lumped in the same catagory for "simplicity conversation".
Because their advocates are all assholes. Once again, for the sake of simplicity.
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
They are not colors, but they are absolutes.
Robin
Close but no cigar. Finding some similarity doesn't negate 180 degree difference in FUNDAMENTAL belief. Utterly false statements don't simplify conversations.
There is a lot of gymnastics going on here to defend 100% false statement.
Celt
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Whats false in what I said? Do communism, socialism and facism not focus on the collective rather than the individual? I get that facism is considered far right and communism is far left but they are both focused on total govt control.
I can understand to someone who either grew up under these systems or has studied them extensively how people lumping them together would seem ignorant, but this isnt an economics class and it really seems to be just an over simplification.
You and others were defending a false statement. I didn't say you made it. As it was said, it wasn't simplification, it was utterly false. Why defend it? Just let it go and accept that. I don't care about a lot of things either, but I don't go around inventing stuff. I don't care about Islam, so I can go around and say they believe in Buda for the sake of argument? It's stupid.
drowhawk
.44 mag
See what you're not understanding is that facism and marxism are both on the authoritarian side of the political spectrum. It doesn't really matter marxist or facist because they both fall on the authoritarian end of the spectrum. Both are oppressive regimes that seek to control their populous through absolute obedience and fear. You can't really tell me they are that different from one another when the end result is the same; a populous deeply divided and deeply obedient. The only way facism and marxism can function is through complete and utter control of the economy and the populous. Motives are irrelevant.
Your baseless insults only further illustrate either a intellectually dishonest position on authoritarianism or a willful ignorance of such. Either way, your point is lost on most of us.
I understand authoritarian side, but that's sidetracking. Originally you said: "Facism and military dictator ships are just different flavors of the same Marxism." and you said that to correct me. You corrected me by saying something utterly not true and you are standing your ground. So who is intellectually dishonest here?
Marxist Franco? Marxist Pinochet?
Yes but their adherents are both assholes that want to deprive you of your rights and liberties. Ultimately their philosophical differences are irrelevant. No need to spin, twist or turn that.
The world is rarely that simple. If it's a question of survival of a nation from outside aggression, authoritarians have an advantage. That has been proven in WWII. Most European democracies shit their bed.
Celt
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I see where your focus is, its on the statement "Facism and military dictator ships are just different flavors of the same Marxism."
And i understand that they have different fundemental differences. All i was "defending" is that people are just simplifying things because they are authoritarian. But you are correct that facism is not a different flavor of marxism on a fundemental level.
spat
.950 JDJ
They all believe the collective is more important than the individual.
That is they very core of all of their beliefs.
That is how they are all alike, and it is why they are all wrong.
spat
.950 JDJ
Yes, the NAZI's were very good at making the trains run on time.
TNT could propel a bullet very fast, but there is a reason we don't use it in cartridges.
The bottom line is that once you are subject to a tyrannical totalitarian regime, it doesn't much matter what rhetoric they use to justify their tyranny. At that point its all just window dressing.