Columbia University professor, admitted heroin user, says legalization of all drugs is 'fundamental right'

[Steal2B]

It is funny, most of the ones that say this garbage should be legal are the same ones that say that we still need the narcan and the EMT support.

I say, cannot have it both ways. I love the tards that say none of us know what we are talking about, we cannot know what it is like and the such.

I do not need to understand or comprehend what these misfits are going through, I do not care. I see the damage the junkies do. I see the outcomes of the crackheads. First hand, daily and personally I see what they do to society and the their family and friends.

Not assisting them at times would be the best thing for them. Narcan is not a lifesaving drug, it is a tool to enable the users.

Often hear of overdosed assholes verbally going off on or physically attacking emergency responders after Narcan is administered claiming it ruined their high.

 

[Darth]

Up into the early 1900's you could mail order prefilled syringes of morphine from the Sears Roebuck catalog. Also, full auto Tommy Guns COD.

They were the Amazon of the day.

You could also fit the entire code of federal regulations and laws on one shelf.

The good old days.

A shelf seems a bit large, but it's a start.

 

[GOPerfect]

@Criticalt you have shared in the past your personal experiences with this garbage. People that have never gone through what you have, can only imagine how tough the events are. I am thankful that I have never had the experience in my family.

On a professional level, I have seen what this junk does. The harder the drug, the worse the picture is. Many will say the Victimless crap, they are clueless and rather foolish. They do nothing but show their ignorance of the truth.

I have watched Judges try to hep these junkies and crackheads just to have them return time after time after time. The revolving doors of these people is through the roof.

The majority of those that I have dealt with personally, the only thing they think about is getting their hands on more junk. I have spoken with hundreds of these people, they will openly admit that they are willing to anything to get their hands on more. They will sell their children, they will rob from their families, they will beat up old ladies. They will rob and they will steal from anyone or anything to get a bag of their poison.

I will repeat, legalize all of this poison. All of it. The same time that this garbage is made legal, make it unlawful for the use of Narcan and other lifesaving techniques. Allow them to all die when the Overdose. Do not save them when they are in cardiac arrest. Do nothing to assist them when they are seizing up due to their addiction.

End the war on drugs, end it today. Those that are weak that need these drugs, those that need the poison, allow them to die, and they will. Stop imposing the morals and the ethics of some upon others.

 

[GOPerfect]

Often hear of overdosed assholes verbally going off on or physically attacking emergency responders after Narcan is administered claiming it ruined their high.

I have watched these actions many times, EMT's get hurt all of the time. Stop administering the Narcan.

 

[SonOfSun]

Yep. I am more than okay with allowing people to die due to their poor choices..

No where is it written that the government has the responsibility to save people.

People make choices, no one is forced to chose the life of a junkie or crackhead.

Should not be the tax payers that save them.

You want to save them? Find them and use your money to assist them.

I wasn't criticizing you or taking a position myself, more just wanted additional clarity to your thought on it.

 

[dc9mm]

Most people on drugs hold jobs.

Plenty hold well paying jobs.

Crimes against others is already illegal.

How do you know this to be true. NOT saying it isnt just where is this information?

 

[Darth]

How do you know this to be true. NOT saying it isnt just where is this information?

Beyond my job in a correctional facility and seeing it every single day, you can ask any employed person you see. Ask if they drink alcohol. The majority will say yes. I'm not excluded from this group. And I had a problem. And nobody knew a thing. This stereotype of what a drug addict looks like is the biggest farce perpetuated in relation to this.

Percentage wise the amount of people addicted to certain groups of drugs does not change based on income or employment. The opioid epidemic doesn't skip over the top tier earners by a long shot. They simply have the means to make their troubles disappear more easily.

 

[tirwin1]

I recall reading that susceptibility to drug or alcohol addiction could be genetic. This might be why some people can recover after treatment while others never stop on their self destructive downward spiral. Interesting if true and raises all kinds of questions regarding how to deal with addicts.

 

[GOPerfect]

I recall reading that susceptibility to drug or alcohol addiction could be genetic. This might be why some people can recover after treatment while others never stop on their self destructive downward spiral. Interesting if true and raises all kinds of questions regarding how to deal with addicts.

It may be very true. I have a high amount of alcoholics in my family on my dads side, I may have started down that path years and years ago; I realized what was happening and for the most part, stopped drinking. A beer here or there, a nice glass of Mead. That is it. I do not wish to go down that path.

 

[SonOfSun]

Let's turn it around - is there any limit on tax dollars you would implement to save these people? Or do you think first responders should be giving out narcan like candy?

It depends.

My opinion is more nuanced than "people who are addicted can have what's coming to them". If we're talking about the person who on their own started doing drugs because they wanted the high or whatever, I'm inclined to agree with the, "they deserve what happens" position.

However there are a LOT of addicts out there who were put in that position by other people, even with their own due diligence. Happened to a family friends adult kid when I was growing up. Was injured at work, doctor prescribed pain pills and he got addicted to them. The guy wasn't some dirtbag who just wanted a high. He was a normal hard working guy who was injured at work and ended up addicted via a medical prescription. Family insists the risks were never really made clear to him, but who is to say as that was the family's story. Either way, I'm pretty sure if some of those people who ended up addicted were strongly told before being given the prescription that it's basically refined heroin with heroin withdrawal risks and the potential for addiction attached that some of them would have said, "yeah, is there something else we can do?" and would have went a different direction.

Heck, my dad worked as a pipefitter and injured his back, he declined the pain pills because of the risks (this injury was after the risks were widely known). I'm sure that if the injury happened before a lot of the headlines on this stuff were front and center and people were aware he could have made a different decision and things could have turned out differently for him.

 

[GOPerfect]

It depends.



Heck, my dad worked as a pipefitter and injured his back, he declined the pain pills because of the risks (this injury was after the risks were widely known). I'm sure that if the injury happened before a lot of the headlines on this stuff were front and center and people were aware he could have made a different decision and things could have turned out differently for him.

Your last paragraph, at least for me, sums all up in regards to the Prescription Opiate "excuse". Refuse to take them. We as a people in the past never needed these high dose, high addiction medicines. I am not saying to suck up the pain and be a man, but too many allow themselves to be taken over by these pills.

Many years ago, yeah, I know, we all have a story....

I broke my leg in six places, once out of the hospital, I took Motrin. Nothing more. I have an issue with my knee, a replacement is in the very near future, I know the risks of these medications so I will not take them. Much of this comes down to person responsibility.

 

[spat]

I recall reading that susceptibility to drug or alcohol addiction could be genetic. This might be why some people can recover after treatment while others never stop on their self destructive downward spiral. Interesting if true and raises all kinds of questions regarding how to deal with addicts.

I do not believe that the drugs are the root cause of the addiction.

I believe some people are hardwired for addiction and seek them out.

We've got much better stuff for them to find than we did 500 years ago, but alcoholics have pretty much existed since the first time someone let the grapes sit around too long.

 

[Catskillkid]

I'll just add a personal story I was told by a friend. Yes, this is hearsay but I trust the story.

A guy worked for a NYC Department. Made good money, like over $100,000 a year plus NYC benefits. Got on heroin, I believe he decided he wanted to try it recreationally not because of any pain issues. Got addicted. Missed work. A LOT of work. NYC (as part of his benefits) has a drug rehab. Guy was sent to rehab. Came back after a month or whatever it was. Did ok for a little while. Started missing work again because he got back on heroin. NYC sent him to rehab again. A few months later the same thing happened. Went back to rehab. Came back and this time was caught shooting up at work. Finally after over a year of keeping paperwork on the guy, all his missed work, all his screwed up projects (and these were multimillion dollar engineering projects he was working on) they finally canned his ass. I suspect no more country club rehabs for him now.

My friend (who worked with the guy) said that because of this he will never try heroin. His words: "Clearly it's so good that an educated person with a job making over $100,000 a year plus retirement plus benefits will throw it all away for a fix."

 

[spat]

Your last paragraph, at least for me, sums all up in regards to the Prescription Opiate "excuse". Refuse to take them. We as a people in the past never needed these high dose, high addiction medicines. I am not saying to suck up the pain and be a man, but too many allow themselves to be taken over by these pills.

Many years ago, yeah, I know, we all have a story....

I broke my leg in six places, once out of the hospital, I took Motrin. Nothing more. I have an issue with my knee, a replacement is in the very near future, I know the risks of these medications so I will not take them. Much of this comes down to person responsibility.

I had a severe motorcycle accident a long time ago.

I was in a medically induced coma for 2 weeks.

A week after I woke up a nurse came and was adding something to my IV. I asked her what it was and she said "it's a morphine pump, here's the button".

I said "I don’t need it, I'm not in any serious pain, just a bit of discomfort". She said "We're taking you off the strong stuff".

Well, I was apparently addicted before I even woke up, but I wanted off all that stuff, so I never used the pump. The nurses would occasionally hit it when they thought I would need it, but I didn't.

A few weeks later they starter stepping me down from the opiates. My blood pressure would spike dangerously if they reduced the dose too fast. Eventually they put me on clonadine to get off the opiates, and then wellbutrin to get off the clonadine.

All told it took about 6 months to "get clean". It wasn't easy, but I did not want some chemical dependancy, so I made it happen.

The answer is that just like physical fitness, you have to *want* it, and you have to be willing to work for it, and due to outside factors it's much harder for some people.

But just like the 600lb guy who sits on the couch eating junk food all day, the blame is on the addict.

 

[Criticalt]

Up into the early 1900's you could mail order prefilled syringes of morphine from the Sears Roebuck catalog. Also, full auto Tommy Guns COD.

They were the Amazon of the day.

You could also fit the entire code of federal regulations and laws on one shelf.

And doctors told pregnant women to smoke cigarettes because it calmed nerves.....those were the good old days.

 

[Criticalt]

Drugs are a victimless crime.

You have done what everyone that tries to argue against them do. Dishonestly conflate multiple actions and label them as one.

This is the same as saying "gun ownership is not a victimless crime because Sandy Hook."

I see what you are trying to do here but it wont work, you are just wrong.

And no, your analogy doesnt work either.
I guess if you say the relatives of the shooter must live with what their relative did......then are they victims? Yep, they are.

I guess you assume, wrongly, that someone must be physically harmed to be a victim. Being robbed also makes you a victim, being lied to also makes you a victim, being duped makes you a victim........all of these are what some junkies do to their loved ones. These drug users would not do these things without the drugs.
I know of DOZENS of parents who must put dead locks on their INSIDE doors because their ADULT children will rob them. Many of these children never stole a thing until heroin, making the drugs the reason they steal, making their parents victims.
I know you wont budge because this has been a long time argument of yours but on this one thing, you are incorrect.

 

[Darth]

I see what you are trying to do here but it wont work, you are just wrong.

And no, your analogy doesnt work either.
I guess if you say the relatives of the shooter must live with what their relative did......then are they victims? Yep, they are.

I guess you assume, wrongly, that someone must be physically harmed to be a victim. Being robbed also makes you a victim, being lied to also makes you a victim, being duped makes you a victim........all of these are what some junkies do to their loved ones. These drug users would not do these things without the drugs.
I know of DOZENS of parents who must put dead locks on their INSIDE doors because their ADULT children will rob them. Many of these children never stole a thing until heroin, making the drugs the reason they steal, making their parents victims.
I know you wont budge because this has been a long time argument of yours but on this one thing, you are incorrect.

Well you can say "you are incorrect" until you're blue in the face, but your "feelings" on the issue are irrelevant.

I never said anything about physical harm. If I steal your wallet, you are a victim. No physical harm needed.

We have laws for crimes against another because there are in fact victims involved. Robbery. Rape. Murder. Assault, etc.

Now, I open the floor to you. Please make a valid argument for why these drugs should be illegal (unlike, say alcohol which causes the exact same behaviors) WITHOUT, repeat, WITHOUT conflating a diffrient, already illegal act.

I know people that cannot control their sexual urges. Their libido is through the roof. They can NOT allow themselves access to porn as they will become addicted and that will move from the realm of fantasy to reality acting upon those urges. Sex addiction is a real thing because it leads to crimes like rape, assault etc. Ergo sex should not be legal.

No.

Now let's hear it.

 

[Saltwater60]

If you follow his argument then everything and anything will be legal.

 

[spat]

I see what you are trying to do here but it wont work, you are just wrong.

And no, your analogy doesnt work either.
I guess if you say the relatives of the shooter must live with what their relative did......then are they victims? Yep, they are.

I guess you assume, wrongly, that someone must be physically harmed to be a victim. Being robbed also makes you a victim, being lied to also makes you a victim, being duped makes you a victim........all of these are what some junkies do to their loved ones. These drug users would not do these things without the drugs.
I know of DOZENS of parents who must put dead locks on their INSIDE doors because their ADULT children will rob them. Many of these children never stole a thing until heroin, making the drugs the reason they steal, making their parents victims.
I know you wont budge because this has been a long time argument of yours but on this one thing, you are incorrect.

Drugs may be the catalyst, but they are not the cause.

The people doing those things are 100% responsible for their actions. Even if they would not have done them without the drugs, they are the ones who took the drugs.

They do not get to absolve themselves of guilt by blaming an inanimate object.

If someone drives drunk and kills an innocent family, it's the drunk drivers fault, not the alcohol.

 

[Darth]

If you follow his argument then everything and anything will be legal.

...problem?

 

[crunchberry]

What bothers me about this guy is not that he is promoting the decriminalization of drug use. I agree fundamentally that every person should be able to do whatever they want with their own body if it doesn't infringe on anyone else.

Why I don't like this guy is because he is in my opinion dangerously and irresponsibly promoting the idea of casual hard drug use. I heard him on Joe Rogans podcast and he was promoting the use of heroin, cocaine, etc. Like if you're an educated and responsible person with a family like he is you can probably use hard drugs safely and responsibly. No one can predict who won't and who will end up completely destroying their life. While there are statistics out there and it's considered fact that most people who try heroin do not go on to become addicts, it is still an extremely dangerous and highly addictive drug. Just because black doctorman first tried heroin 7 years ago and doesn't have a problem now doesn't mean he won't later. Let's see how he's doing in 20 years. There are tons of people who thought they could keep it totally under control. This guy is an arrogant idiot.

 

[spat]

If you follow his argument then everything and anything will be legal.

If you follow yours then alcohol is responsible for drunk driving, and the guy behind the wheel is blameless.

 

[Saltwater60]

I'll just add a personal story I was told by a friend. Yes, this is hearsay but I trust the story.

A guy worked for a NYC Department. Made good money, like over $100,000 a year plus NYC benefits. Got on heroin, I believe he decided he wanted to try it recreationally not because of any pain issues. Got addicted. Missed work. A LOT of work. NYC (as part of his benefits) has a drug rehab. Guy was sent to rehab. Came back after a month or whatever it was. Did ok for a little while. Started missing work again because he got back on heroin. NYC sent him to rehab again. A few months later the same thing happened. Went back to rehab. Came back and this time was caught shooting up at work. Finally after over a year of keeping paperwork on the guy, all his missed work, all his screwed up projects (and these were multimillion dollar engineering projects he was working on) they finally canned his ass. I suspect no more country club rehabs for him now.

My friend (who worked with the guy) said that because of this he will never try heroin. His words: "Clearly it's so good that an educated person with a job making over $100,000 a year plus retirement plus benefits will throw it all away for a fix."

Same happened to a guy I worked with.
All I have to say is at least if it’s illegal I can tell my kids that and tell them that’s how bad they are.
A young beautiful girl I loved dearly lost her life from this junk. She came from a good family and was prescribed this shit for growing pains. Got hooked then switched to heroin. Was clean for 18 months then went back to it one time and overdosed. She died that night. If she wasn’t a drug addict a good chance she would be my wife. Nicest girl with the most beautiful eyes and nicest smile you have ever seen. I truly loved her and this junk took her and many more. I can’t support legalizing it. Sorry.

 

[technicalgadget]

Lefties, promoting more of the chains that keep us down in society and binds us. Making people more controllable is the key for them to stay in power.

 

[GOPerfect]

Same happened to a guy I worked with.
All I have to say is at least if it’s illegal I can tell my kids that and tell them that’s how bad they are.
A young beautiful girl I loved dearly lost her life from this junk. She came from a good family and was prescribed this shit for growing pains. Got hooked then switched to heroin. Was clean for 18 months then went back to it one time and overdosed. She died that night. If she wasn’t a drug addict a good chance she would be my wife. Nicest girl with the most beautiful eyes and nicest smile you have ever seen. I truly loved her and this junk took her and many more. I can’t support legalizing it. Sorry.

Thanks for sharing a personal story. Sorry to hear about it.

 

[Saltwater60]

...problem?

Pedophilia is a great thing to legalize in you opinion? After all it makes some happy.

 

[Saltwater60]

Lefties, promoting more of the chains that keep us down in society and binds us. Making people more controllable is the key for them to stay in power.

This 1000 times.

 

[Darth]

Pedophilia is a great thing to legalize in you opinion? After all it makes some happy.

Is there a victim in that?

 

[Darth]

Same happened to a guy I worked with.
All I have to say is at least if it’s illegal I can tell my kids that and tell them that’s how bad they are.
A young beautiful girl I loved dearly lost her life from this junk. She came from a good family and was prescribed this shit for growing pains. Got hooked then switched to heroin. Was clean for 18 months then went back to it one time and overdosed. She died that night. If she wasn’t a drug addict a good chance she would be my wife. Nicest girl with the most beautiful eyes and nicest smile you have ever seen. I truly loved her and this junk took her and many more. I can’t support legalizing it. Sorry.

Emotions don't outweigh rights.

Do you think it's a good idea to have your kids drink drain cleaner?

Is that a law based decision?

 

[Robin]

Like deja vous, all over again!
Robin