Day444
.223 Rem
No sir, that statement is in quotes. I believe I was quoting Spat.
Dude open carrying. nobody freaked out!
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No sir, that statement is in quotes. I believe I was quoting Spat.
spat
.950 JDJ
I'd love to hear the explanation of that one, is it because "keep" was listed before "bear" ? Would the whole meaning have changed if it said "bear and keep" ?
nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
Heller v DC clearly states in paragraph 2 that * For example concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues* So if you look at that the State is violating the Second Amendment by not allowing Open Carry ! Why they just pull your License at the Judges decision and not at the choice of a plea deal!
This is also why challenges to restricted license have failed!
This is also why challenges to restricted license have failed!
Day444
.223 Rem
That's a stretch. The permit holder must have the gun registered to them. Other wise your statement is basically correct except for the first sentence.
Jsmegs77
.308 Win
Academic discussions are perfectly fine. The net result is educating people like myself, whose knowledge of NY firearms law previous to this site was largely anecdotal based upon conversations with people I know. Upon further reading, the reality is depressing, and only cementing further my resolution to GTFO as soon as feasible.
As an aside, I'm pretty neutral on OC where allowed anyway. I don't see OC vs. CC as a profitable debate, rather I'm of the opinion that it's a "both and" rather than "either or" type situation. Tactical concerns and cultural climate color this, but in my view pitting these two strategies against each other only harms our cause overall and promotes infighting among people who are otherwise %99.9 in agreement.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Heller was written by clowns in robes that skewed the 2A to say what they wanted it to say for political reasons.
Had there had been one of two more Ginsbergs, the interpreting would have been different.
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Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
The explanation is that they are separate words.
Day444
.223 Rem
I don't disagree with you. However if some gun owners keep doing the wrong things, it will only make it harder on the rest of us. I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone, I just don't agree with some of what's been posted. For me it's a clear choice, carry concealed (as I am permitted to do) or don't carry.
spat
.950 JDJ
Fine, so show me where in NY law "bearing" is prohibited separately than "keeping".
If SCOTUS ruled tomorrow that a permit to "keep" is unconstitutional, what are they going to charge you with in NY ? We only have "criminal possession". Other states have laws that ban concealed carry without a permit, so they would still have a ban on CC, but in NY anyone could carry any way they want then.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Show me in NY law where it doesn't specifically say that gun laws are in effect on Sundays or at night.
That show me argument is ridiculous.
spat
.950 JDJ
You are asking me to prove a negative, its ridiculous to compare.
You are claiming something is illegal, to be illegal, it must be prohibited by statute. Asking someone to cite the statute is perfectly reasonable. It is also pointless at this point in the discussion. you are hanging your entire argument on the "permit yo have and carry concealed" language in PL400. You are then claiming that anything *but* carrying concealed is prohibited by that license, despite the obvious examples I provided like a gun in range bag in the back seat, or at home, or at a range, or hunting, and the complete lack of any examples in over 100 years of the law of people being charged that way.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Those aren't examples of carrying.
spat
.950 JDJ
They are examples of not "carrying concealed".
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Those are examples of "Having". To have and carry concealed.
spat
.950 JDJ
So, driving around with it on the seat next to you is "having" but attaching it to your hip is not ?
Don't forget, the only crime defined here is "criminal possession", so illegal having. There is no "criminal carrying" crime at all.
Can someone carrying without a permit say "no officer, I was not possessing it, I was carrying it" .
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Spat. You are being ridiculous. At that point you are having it and carrying it.
spat
.950 JDJ
So, you admit that you can "have" it and be in compliance with the law without "carrying it concealed" right ?
So, then what is OC ? You are not carrying it concealed, but you have it. There is no criminal charge for carrying at all, so the second part of the license is moot anyway.
OMG, what a complete waste of time. It appears the only thing scat is carrying is his keyboard as he's on all the time.
None of the chest thumpers here are going to waltz around town with the big iron on their hip.
I trust the CC website far more than a guy who thinks he's Zorro sitting in small town upstate NY.
If anyone really cared one bit they could drive down to NYSP Hq and get an opinion. They don't and they won't.
Entertaining to watch non-attorneys promulgate opinions with zero knowledge or experience in a courtroom.
AS I said long ago: "picking the flyshit out of the pepper". LMAO !
None of the chest thumpers here are going to waltz around town with the big iron on their hip.
I trust the CC website far more than a guy who thinks he's Zorro sitting in small town upstate NY.
If anyone really cared one bit they could drive down to NYSP Hq and get an opinion. They don't and they won't.
Entertaining to watch non-attorneys promulgate opinions with zero knowledge or experience in a courtroom.
AS I said long ago: "picking the flyshit out of the pepper". LMAO !
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Spat. This debate was fun at first. Now it's ridiculous and no longer worth carrying on about.
If you think having and carrying are the same, then okay. Keep believing that.
nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
One more Ginsberg and Heller would have lost! I really can't believe you wrote that!!
spat
.950 JDJ
I don't think they are the same, I just don't see anywhere in NY law that carrying is prohibited. You keep insisting it is, but can't seem to find it.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
And I don't see anywhere in NYS law that says carrying an AW isn't allowed on Sundays.
spat
.950 JDJ
If you registered the AW it's not prohibited at all.
You also can't be charged for carrying an AW on Sunday. You can be charged with possessing an unregistered one though.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Day444
.223 Rem
High tide has come in. Thanks to those who understand. To those who don't may you have a really good trust fund. Time to leave this beach.
A good trust fund would ease the transition, but I find myself able to live in two nice houses in 2 free states at no more cost than it cost me to live in one small house in NY. Almost any free state has good jobs, lower taxes, low crime rates, better weather and nice people.
Were it not for an aged family member, requiring close proximity, coming back to NY would never have crossed our minds.
Were it not for an aged family member, requiring close proximity, coming back to NY would never have crossed our minds.
HighlandLofts
6.5 Creedmoor
My grandson likes to open carry my Smith 640.
I open carry around my property, I live in a Rural setting. Have had mail man/ups man/ neighbors (pretty sure they dont know my job) approach me and have never said anything. I did have one UPS man check out my GP100 on my hip before...all I could think of is man I wish I had better grips and a better holster haha.
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Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
All these examples on how nobody bats an eye are just like smoking a joint and nobody batting an eye. Nobody cares depending on where you are including the cops.
Just because they don't bat an eye, that doesn't mean it's legal. I suggest you guys that think it's legal to open carry in your home on private property, reread the law.
Just because they don't bat an eye, that doesn't mean it's legal. I suggest you guys that think it's legal to open carry in your home on private property, reread the law.