Georgia man arrested for weapons possession in Great Valley

[Robin]

Why hell, every school kid knows the Patrick Henry was arrested when he crossed the Pennsylvania border with his concealed carry horse pistol. Ignorant fuck's!
That damn Constitution, so hard to understand, why I got a headache from trying to figure out that free speech thing, is it like freedom from religion? Damn, so confused.
GOP, do you tutor?
Robin

 

[Marine Cpl]

Again, you are missing the point. The point, for the last time, you either support the Constitution or you don't.

You talk about feelings and political leanings, it is impossible to take those two things out of the mix. The founding fathers knew that as well.

And what does the 2A in the constitution say? How is that not supporting it by going by what is says to the letter?

 

[GOPerfect]

And what does the 2A in the constitution say? How is that not supporting it by going by what is says to the letter?

Depends on what scholars are asked. Depends on what writings you read for each of the founders.

I know what it says and I know what it means, but my interpretation means little.

 

[GOPerfect]

If the Constitution was so simple and easy to understand, why did the FF's give us a court system to review case after case?

 

[Marine Cpl]

Your argument seems to be unless I’m misunderstanding you is that it is meaningless unless a court affirms it. And if that is indeed the case, then why are only certain decisions from courts followed by the states and others aren’t? The answer to that is corruption and tyranny. And when the courts contradict themselves like they did in Heller, which bits and pieces are valid?

Because in Heller the argument is that common arms cannot be infringed upon yet in this state, the AR15 is banned and people cannot get a handgun to have in their home unless they are licensed to do yet this state is May Issue rather than Shall Issue because you have to demonstrate a need.

 

[Marine Cpl]

If the Constitution was so simple and easy to understand, why did the FF's give us a court system to review case after case?

They did so for when a state or the federal government passes an unconstitutional law the courts can tell them that they are wrong and order them stricken.

 

[GOPerfect]

They did so for when a state passes an unconstitutional law so that the courts can tell them that they are wrong.

Not even close. Reread some history and writings of the FF"s.

 

[spat]

I’ve learned here that basically everything is the fault of the police. Like even actions taken by other people are ultimately only because of the police. Like FFL’s refusing to sell firearms to NYC residents even though they can is really the cops fault.

A lot of what the government does domestically *is* the cops fault. If you didn't enforce their will, none of their corruption would matter. They fact that they have you all convinced that you aren't personally responsible for what you enforce is what allows them to continue their corruption.

Imagine a world where your union decided it had a veto on laws. "sorry FUAC, we took a vote, we're not enforcing that one".

FFLs would be happy to sell you whatever if they didn't have to worry about getting arrested (or sued) for it.

You guys are the tip of the spear, whatever machinations go on behind the scenes, you guys are ultimately the ones that make it happen.

 

[GOPerfect]

Your argument seems to be unless I’m misunderstanding you is that it is meaningless unless a court affirms it. And if that is indeed the case, then why are only certain decisions from courts followed by the states and others aren’t? The answer to that is corruption and tyranny. And when the courts contradict themselves like they did in Heller, which bits and pieces are valid?

Because in Heller the argument is that common arms cannot be infringed upon yet in this state, the AR15 is banned and people cannot get a handgun to have in their home unless they are licensed to do yet this state is May Issue rather than Shall Issue because you have to demonstrate a need.

Trust me when I say I agree with much of what you type.

Who decides what is a command arm in regards to Heller? You, me, sales records! Bloomsburg, the President? The courts?

 

[Marine Cpl]

Not even close. Reread some history and writings of the FF"s.

So they aren’t there to determine if laws passed pass constitutional muster? Is that what you are saying? SCOTUS serves many functions. Reviewing passed laws is just one of many.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Trust me when I say I agree with much of what you type.

Who decides what is a command arm in regards to Heller? You, me, sales records! Bloomsburg, the President? The courts?

The citizenry. When they see that the courts are contradicting themselves and injecting words that aren’t even in the constitution to infringe upon a right and have become corrupt, it’s up to the citizenry to make the courts and government right again. And that citizenry also includes law enforcement.

 

[GOPerfect]

The citizenry. When they see that the courts are contradicting themselves and injecting words that aren’t even in the constitution to infringe upon a right and have become corrupt, it’s up to the citizenry to make the courts and government right again.

Really? At last count and from most polls, more than 70% of American citizens want serious gun control.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Really? At last count and from most polls, more than 70% of American citizens want serious gun control.

That doesn’t make them right but it is up to them to either support the constitution or allow corruption. We are allowing corruption.

 

[spat]

That is how I feel when carrying a gun when it is not allowed. I am willing to accept the consequences of all my actions.

I'm done with talking about the constitutionality of laws.

Too many forum members only want to undeunders and respect certain sections of the document.

Why should he have to accept any consequences ?

He was doing nothing wrong from a moral or ethical standpoint.

He is justified in resisting the charges any way he can.

If he were a billionaire you know NYS would drop the charges in a heartbeat before they had to try to defend this all the way to SCOTUS. Why should this guy be screwed just because he can't afford a cadre of expensive lawyers ?

Ironically, the billionaire would actually spend less defending himself than this guy will. NY would cave just because he *could* spend the money.

 

[Marine Cpl]

The bottom line here is that the government has gotten corrupt and tyrannical due to the laws passed and the perverted decisions rendered by the court.

We only have two ways to fix this.

1. The police refuse to enforce all Unconstitutional laws like police in Virginia alluded to.

2. We take over the government involving the total collapse of it where cops and the citizenry take casualties in the war along with the casualties of war with people that have no skin in it being affected. IE the old lady that will die because she cannot get her medications because the roads are closed and deliveries aren’t being rendered.

Number 1 is easier to do but most will just follow the laws and enforce them for a paycheck.

Number 2 is far fetched because the citizenry wants their paychecks too.

So that leaves only 1 realistic alternative. Just take it. Take the infringements because there is absolutely nothing you can do about because both 1 and 2 do not want to lose their paychecks.

 

[GOPerfect]

Why should he have to accept any consequences ?

He was doing nothing wrong from a moral or ethical standpoint.

He is justified in resisting the charges any way he can.

If he were a billionaire you know NYS would drop the charges in a heartbeat before they had to try to defend this all the way to SCOTUS. Why should this guy be screwed just because he can't afford a cadre of expensive lawyers ?

Ironically, the billionaire would actually spend less defending himself than this guy will. NY would cave just because he *could* spend the money.

Different subject all together. That can be a thread on its own. The local, county and state court systems are broken beyond repair.

Until a higher court seems our laws unconstitutional, they are law. That is why there are consequences.

I do not like this, at all. This is reality. This is fact. Many have fought on the exact grounds you are speaking and nearly all have list.

Reality. We do not need to like it or respect it, but it is indeed fact.

 

[GOPerfect]

That doesn’t make them right but it is up to them to either support the constitution or allow corruption. We are allowing corruption.

You said you want the citizens to decide, right now, I do not. We would lose everything forever.

 

[GOPerfect]

The bottom line here is that the government has gotten corrupt and tyrannical due to the laws passed and the perverted decisions rendered by the court.

We only have two ways to fix this.

1. The police refuse to enforce all Unconstitutional laws like police in Virginia alluded to.

2. We take over the government involving the total collapse of it where cops and the citizenry take casualties in the war along with the casualties of war with people that have no skin in it being affected. IE the old lady that will die because she cannot get her medications because the roads are closed and deliveries aren’t being rendered.

Number 1 is easier to do but most will just follow the laws and enforce them for a paycheck.

Number 2 is far fetched because the citizenry wants their paychecks too.

So that leaves only 1 realistic alternative. Just take it. Take the infringements because there is absolutely nothing you can do about because both 1 and 2 do not want to lose their paychecks.

Neither option will occur. Again, reality

 

[Marine Cpl]

You said you want the citizens to decide, right now, I do not. We would lose everything forever.

Then all we can do is just take it.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Neither option will occur. Again, reality

Again. Then all we can do is just take it. That’s it. Or we can BullShit ourselves and do what we do here and keep repeating unrealistic scenarios that the citizenry will rise up. It will not. So to make ourselves feel better we can make signs to carry and make useless phone calls so that we can sleep at night.

 

[Robin]

If the Constitution was so simple and easy to understand, why did the FF's give us a court system to review case after case?

They didn't, and were concerned that the supreme court would in fact become the arbiter of our rights. Starting with Marbury V. Madison. As genius as Jefferson was he not only didn't challenge the finding, he did not challenge the courts right to make the finding even though he knew they were in the wrong on both counts.
Robin

 

[GOPerfect]

Again. Then all we can do is just take it. That’s it. Or we can BullShit ourselves and do what we do here and keep repeating unrealistic scenarios that the citizenry will rise up. It will not. So to make ourselves feel better we can make signs to carry and make useless phone calls so that we can sleep at night.

America is filled with cowards and scared of their own shodow type people. Rising up is a very long way away.

As for the police standing up, or the military, for every few that will do the right thing, there is at least one that won't.

Look at Katrina, the military showed up and went door to door taking guns and detaining people. There were some that said no, but many were fine doing their duty.

Unless voters start taking elections seriously, we are doomed. Defeatist attitude? Maybe, or maybe just facing reality.

 

[Airborneguy]

A lot of what the government does domestically *is* the cops fault. If you didn't enforce their will, none of their corruption would matter. They fact that they have you all convinced that you aren't personally responsible for what you enforce is what allows them to continue their corruption.

Imagine a world where your union decided it had a veto on laws. "sorry FUAC, we took a vote, we're not enforcing that one".

FFLs would be happy to sell you whatever if they didn't have to worry about getting arrested (or sued) for it.

You guys are the tip of the spear, whatever machinations go on behind the scenes, you guys are ultimately the ones that make it happen.

Made up and/or inflamed emotion-based opinions regarding the police are what causes fear.

Innocent people aren’t arrested en masse in this country. Even most not guilty verdicts are not the result of true innocence but rather process mistakes, missed timelines, witness/victim reluctance, and/or failure to compile enough evidence.

You and other here fell headlong into the Obama-led campaign to demonize the police, the results of which are becoming starkly obvious in this state. I’m partially happy that we were the “tip of the spear” for this one because overtime has skyrocketed since Jan 1 due what losers think is “accountability” increases but in fact is nothing more than the encoding of societal breakdown within our laws themselves.

As I’ve said numerous times, I really don’t care per se, most of the results of the devolution of policing actually increases our monetary reward when properly managed, but it isn’t fair to those who cannot carry 24/7 nationwide (yes, I know, my fault). It isn’t fair to my family who often times are not with me and my firearms. It’s not fair to cops who don’t have the kill without mercy mindset required to deal with today’s citizenry-sanctioned emboldened perps.

But keep hating the police, it’s all our fault. I’m sure I’ll “admit that” when the checks have been rolling in tax free for years long after my last day of violating innocent New Yorkers just because I woke up that day.

 

[Robin]

So for now the Nuremburg defense will work for any and all government employee at every level. The super citizenry will rule and we the people will be ruled, the cadre are the citizens and the vox populi, muted and mere subjects.
Robin

 

[Airborneguy]

So for now the Nuremburg defense will work for any and all government employee at every level. The super citizenry will rule and we the people will be ruled, the cadre are the citizens and the vox populi, muted and mere subjects.
Robin

Your fellow citizens vote these people in easily, repeatedly and without question.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Unless voters start taking elections seriously, we are doomed. Defeatist attitude? Maybe, or maybe just facing reality.

It’s just facing reality. I know that the cops aren’t going to refuse to enforce laws and I know that the citizenry isn’t going to dispose of the government. That’s reality.

If it were up to me and you, we would dispose of the government and create a new one with systems in place to prevent what is happening now from happening again. But that ain’t happening.

So pointing out the obvious is all I can do and the ignorant will just call me a defeatist because I will not stand out in the cold with a sign.

 

[John Stark]

It is the job and the responsibility of the Courts to determine the constitutionality of laws created by the elite group of politics. You constantly say that yo support the Constitution, if that were true, you would support that talks about the responsibility and duties of the Courts.

I support all of the Constitution, not just the parts I like. You do not.

Unlike you, I do not want the beat cop to decide what is Constitutional.

Let me translate this into American English for the listening audience at home:

I have reserved for myself the right and duty to interpret the Constitution in such a way as to let the plebes know that only the Courts can interpret our Constitution, and our laws in the light of our Constitution. Only extra special people can interpret the Constitution, like me.

Never mind that I have reserved this right and duty to myself, and please do not take into account that since I stopped working at Gander and have become a cop I have become more authoritarian and elitist!

I think I liked reading your posts better when you were a civilian rather than another NY public sector employee chasing after a fat tax payer funded pension.

No offence intended, of course.

 

[Robin]

Your fellow citizens vote these people in easily, repeatedly and without question.

No, the more I read the more understand, they are not citizens, they are your fellow travelers. The last of the citizens are dying off and soon you will be unopposed.
Robin

 

[Airborneguy]

No, the more I read the more understand, they are not citizens, they are your fellow travelers. The last of the citizens are dying off and soon you will be unopposed.
Robin

I’m no part of this at all. When has you heard me argue for the tyranny we have now? My argument has never even been that cops who actually choose to enforce these laws are free from scorn.

All you see me argue is the stupid mindset that the mere existence of police is what allows our politicians to operate. I reject that notion on the grounds that it is the citizenry repeatedly voting these people in who hold the responsibility for where we are today.

On a side note, the deletion of one of my posts got my thinking about the time Will said something like “I’m sure over a beer we’d be friends” of some such and I was like, “yeah no, I’d never share a beer with you.” Lol.

 

[John Stark]

Question were in the Constitution does it give Law Enforcement the power to not enforce a law passed by the legislative branch of ( State or Federal ) government which is given such power?

As the chief law enforcement officer of the nation, the President of the United States has this exact power at his disposal and discretion.

The fact that presidents have failed to exercise that power against laws lawfully passed by the legislature that violate our Rights does not take away the principle that all free men have the right to read the Constitution and interpret it.

System and "process" fidelity is not synonymous with fidelity to either the Constitution or to First Principles.

I'll ask you a similar question.

Where in the Constitution is the veto power to reject laws passed by the legislature and signed by the President of the United States, a power that resides solely with the authority and discretion granted to the office of the POTUS, also granted to the courts, whether Supreme or otherwise?

Let me know when you've found that for me.