Georgia on my (our) minds...

[drowhawk]

I believe you may be living in a reality that is not real.

Here is a partial list of No-Bail crimes. Let some of them sink in.



Here Are All The Crimes That Now Fall Under The Bail Reform Law:

• 2nd degree Burglary of a residence
• 2nd degree Burglary as a Hate Crime
• 3rd degree Burglary of a commercial building
• 3rd degree Burglary as a Hate Crime
• 2nd degree Robbery aided by another person
• 2nd degree Robbery as a Hate Crime
• 3rd degree Robbery
• Criminal sale of a controlled substance (multiple counts)
• Using a child to commit a controlled substance crime
• Criminal possession of a controlled substance (multiple counts)
• Criminal sale of a controlled substance in or near a school
• Criminal injection of a controlled substance into another person
• Criminal sale of a controlled substance to a child
• Criminal sale of a prescription for a controlled substance by a pharmacist
• Criminal possession or creation of Methamphetamines
• 3rd degree Assault
• 3rd degree Assault as a Hate Crime
• Reckless Assault of a child by a day care provider
• Reckless Assault of a child
• Stalking (multiple counts)
• Stalking as a Hate Crime (multiple counts)
• Vehicular Assault (multiple counts)
• Aggravated Vehicular Assault
• Aggravated Assault on a child under 11 years-old
• Aggravated Assault on a child under 11 years-old as a Hate Child
• Menacing (multiple counts)
• Menacing as a Hate Crime (multiple counts)
• Reckless Endangerment (multiple counts)
• Promoting a suicide attempt
• 1st degree Stalking while committing a sex offense
• Criminal Obstruction of Breathing
• Criminally Negligent Homicide
• 2nd degree Vehicular Manslaughter
• Aggravated Vehicular Manslaughter
• 2nd degree Manslaughter
• Unlawful Imprisonment (multiple counts)
• Unlawful Imprisonment as a Hate Crime (multiple counts)
• Aggravated Labor Trafficking
• Custodial Interference (multiple counts)
• Substitution of children
• Coercion (multiple counts)
• Coercion as a Hate Crime (multiple counts)
• Criminal Trespass (multiple counts)
• Criminal Trespass as a Hate Crime (multiple counts)
• Possession of burglar’s tools
• Unlawful possession of a police scanner
• Criminal Mischief (multiple counts)
• Criminal Mischief as a Hate Crime (multiple counts)
• Criminal Tampering (multiple counts)
• Cemetery Desecration (multiple counts)
• Aggravated Cemetery Desecration (multiple counts)
• Reckless Endangerment of property
• Tampering with a consumer product (multiple counts)
• Graffiti
• Possession of Graffiti tools
• 3rd degree Arson
• 4th degree Arson
• 5th degree Arson
• 3rd degree Arson as a Hate Crime
• 4th degree Arson as a Hate Crime
• 5th degree Arson as a Hate Crime
• Grand Larceny (multiple counts)
• Grand Larceny at a Hate Crime (multiple counts)
• Aggravated Grand Larceny of an ATM
• Petit Larceny
• Petit Larceny as a Hate Crime
• Computer Tampering (multiple counts)
• Computer Trespass
• Unauthorized use of a computer
• Unlawful duplication of computer materials (multiple counts)
• Welfare Fraud (multiple counts)
• Criminal use of a public benefits card (multiple counts)
• Criminal possession of a public benefits card (multiple counts)
• Unauthorized use of a vehicle (multiple counts)
• Auto stripping (multiple counts)
• Theft of services
• Unauthorized use of a credit card
• Jostling
• Fraudulent Accosting
• Criminal Possession of Stolen Property (multiple counts)
• Forgery (multiple counts)
• Criminal possession of a forged instrument (multiple counts)
• Criminal possession of forgery devices
• Criminal possession of a Vehicle ID Number
• Forgery of a Vehicle ID Number
• Falsifying business records (multiple counts)
• Tampering with public records (multiple counts)
• Offering a false instrument for filing (multiple counts)
• Insurance Fraud (multiple counts)
• Health insurance fraud (multiple counts)
• Criminal diversion of prescription medications (multiple counts)
• Commercial bribery (multiple counts)
• Rent Gouging (multiple counts)
• Residential mortgage fraud (multiple counts)
• Aggravated identity theft (multiple counts)
• Bribery (multiple counts)
• Perjury (multiple counts)
• Bail jumping (multiple counts)
• Obstructing governmental administration (multiple counts)
• Obstructing governmental administration with a self-defense spray device
• Killing a Police Dog or Police Horse
• Obstructing emergency medical services
• Obstructing governmental services with a bomb
• Escape (multiple counts)
• Promoting prison contraband (multiple counts)
• Resisting arrest
• Hindering prosecution (multiple counts)
• Making a false sworn statement
• Bribing a witness
• Receiving a bribe as a witness
• Bribing a juror
• Receiving a bribe as a juror
• Providing a juror with a gratuity
• Tampering with a juror (multiple counts)
• Tampering with physical evidence
• Compounding a crime
• 1st degree Criminal Contempt – refusing to be sworn in as a witness
• 2nd degree Criminal Contempt
• ALL Gambling offenses
• ALL Prostitution offenses
• Providing indecent material in minors (multiple counts)
• Riot (multiple counts)
• Criminal Anarchy
• Harassment (multiple counts)
• Harassment as a Hate Crime (multiple counts)
• Aggravated Harassment (multiple counts)
• Aggravated Harassment as a Hate Crime (multiple counts)
• Aggravated Harassment of an employee by an inmate
• Criminal nuisance (multiple counts)
• Falsely reporting a crime
• Pointing a laser at an aircraft (multiple counts)
• Harming a service animal (multiple counts)
• Public lewdness
• Illegal eavesdropping
• Dissemination of unlawful surveillance (multiple counts)
• Non-support of a child (multiple counts)
• Endangering the welfare of a child
• Assisting in female genital mutilation
• Endangering the welfare of an incompetent or physically disabled person
• Endangering the welfare of a vulnerable elderly person
• Endangering the welfare of a disabled person (multiple counts)
• Promoting an obscene sexual performance by a child
• Possession of an obscene sexual performance by a child
• Promoting a sexual performance by a child
• Possessing a sexual performance by a child
• 4th degree Criminal possession of a weapon
• Criminal possession of a weapon on school grounds
• Criminal possession of a firearm
• 3rd degree Criminal possession of a weapon
• Criminal purchase or disposal of a weapon
• Unlawfully wearing a body vest
• Unlawfully fleeing a police officer in a vehicle (multiple counts)
• Enterprise corruption
• Money Laundering (multiple counts)
• Money Laundering in support of terrorism (multiple counts)
• Corrupting the government (multiple counts)
• Criminal solicitation (multiple counts)
• Conspiracy (multiple counts)
• Conspiracy as a Hate Crime (multiple counts)
• Criminal facilitation (multiple counts)

Many of these, I agree, no bail is needed, hell some of these crimes listed should not even be crimes. That is an entire subject in itself....

You're missing my point. If there's no conviction, there's no guilt. The crime is irrelevant. You can be charged with virtually anything. Charges do not indicate guilt.

 

[GOPerfect]

You're missing my point. If there's no conviction, there's no guilt. The crime is irrelevant. You can be charged with virtually anything. Charges do not indicate guilt.

You really do live in an altered reality. Not an insult.

I picked one crime out of the list...

• Aggravated Assault on a child under 11 years-old

In order to sustain a charge of aggravated assault upon a person less than eleven, the victim must have sustained a physical injury. This means that the child must suffer some sort of impairment of physical condition or suffer substantial pain.

Police get a call, arrive on scene and see a man Assaulting a 9 year old child. The child has substantial pain and an injury. Police witness this as well as, say, five witnesses. He is arrested, charged and arraigned. Massive evidence. Massive. Courts are backed up a month or so, he should be free until convicted? I do not believe no guilt until conviction. Being guilty is different than convicted of being guilty.


Simple example of my guilty thing....

I am driving 100mph in a 30 zone. I know I am going that fast. I see the speedometer, I am caught on radar. I am guilty. Plain and simple. I have been convicted of speeding yet. Am I really not guilty?

 

[GOPerfect]

You're missing my point. If there's no conviction, there's no guilt. The crime is irrelevant. You can be charged with virtually anything. Charges do not indicate guilt.

If the crime is irrelevant, there should be no jail for any crime until court?

Man murders a hundred people, should he be allowed to roam free until trial?

Man is a serial child rapist, free to go as well?

This is a very bad idea you are presenting.

I think we find common ground on some charges. Not all though.

By your way of thinking, each and every arrested crim should be processed and set free.

 

[drowhawk]

By your way of thinking, each and every arrested crim should be processed and set free.

Yes they should. This is the framework our founding fathers set forth. There are plenty of checks and balances in most states that give judges the discretion to hold people that are a potential threat.

 

[GOPerfect]

Yes they should. This is the framework our founding fathers set forth. There are plenty of checks and balances in most states that give judges the discretion to hold people that are a potential threat.

My Founding Fathers were okay with bail. I know this because of the Eighth Amendment...


Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

They thought bail was okay, if not, it would not be in My Constitution.

 

[drowhawk]

My Founding Fathers were okay with bail. I know this because of the Eighth Amendment...


Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

They thought bail was okay, if not, it would not be in My Constitution.

You have to remember this was written at a time when smoking a plant wasn't considered a criminal act.

We also didn't have massive poverty rates and entire demographics of people that literally cannot afford a "reasonable" bail.

The idea of bail is directly contradictory with the philosophy of "innocent until proven guilty." If someone is innocent, why must they pay the government for their freedom?

 

[GOPerfect]

You have to remember this was written at a time when smoking a plant wasn't considered a criminal act.

We also didn't have massive poverty rates and entire demographics of people that literally cannot afford a "reasonable" bail.

The Second Amendment was written when only single shot guns were around as well.

Can afford the crime, do not commit the crime.

As for your smoking weed, I have acknowledged that many crimes should not be crimes.

You want to let murderers out of jail cause they are poor?

 

[drowhawk]

Can afford the crime, do not commit the crime.

See, there you are again condemning someone before their court date. How do we know that they committed the crime if there's no conviction?

 

[masterswimmer]

You really do live in an altered reality. Not an insult.

I picked one crime out of the list...

• Aggravated Assault on a child under 11 years-old

In order to sustain a charge of aggravated assault upon a person less than eleven, the victim must have sustained a physical injury. This means that the child must suffer some sort of impairment of physical condition or suffer substantial pain.

Police get a call, arrive on scene and see a man Assaulting a 9 year old child. The child has substantial pain and an injury. Police witness this as well as, say, five witnesses. He is arrested, charged and arraigned. Massive evidence. Massive. Courts are backed up a month or so, he should be free until convicted? I do not believe no guilt until conviction. Being guilty is different than convicted of being guilty.


Simple example of my guilty thing....

I am driving 100mph in a 30 zone. I know I am going that fast. I see the speedometer, I am caught on radar. I am guilty. Plain and simple. I have been convicted of speeding yet. Am I really not guilty?

See, there you are again condemning someone before their court date. How do we know that they committed the crime if there's no conviction?

@GOPerfect addressed your concern of no guilt before trial in the above post. Cops WITNESSED the assault. Arrest, process, released.

 

[GOPerfect]

See, there you are again condemning someone before their court date. How do we know that they committed the crime if there's no conviction?

Please reread my post in 245. Use that example....

 

[drowhawk]

In your imaginary scenario, the judge would have discretion to hold that person without bail. Even in NY.

 

[GOPerfect]

In your imaginary scenario, the judge would have discretion to hold that person without bail. Even in NY.

So, remand is okay?

I reread the 8th, remand of a prisoner is not there...

 

[Saltwater60]

My Founding Fathers were okay with bail. I know this because of the Eighth Amendment...


Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

They thought bail was okay, if not, it would not be in My Constitution.

There were also people held prior to trial in jail.

 

[Darth]

Issues that Libertarians align with Democrats on:
1. Immigration
2. Police reform
3. Drug laws
4. Bail reform
5. Abortion

Obviously this is only a few issues but you couldn't be any further from the truth. I love how people who have never even so much as googled the Libertarian party platform know so much about how we vote.

It couldn't have been our shit candidate, it had to be you!

 

[libertysnake]

I’m up for anything reasonable. Not sure what you have in mind but I don’t see that we have too many options.
I think the republicans party is splitting much like they said the left would but we may actually do it.
We have no legal recourse at all. The liberals in NYS control everything and the liberals nationwide control everything. Even if, and I repeat even if right now they don’t control the Supreme Court they will within the first 100 days.
The republicans squandered this chance and watch what the liberals will do. There will be no squandering this. The USA as we know it is over with. Take a picture of what it looks like right now because in two years you won’t notice her.
Other problem is once the liberals pass the free everything there’s no way it will be taken away or taken back. Legally there is just any candidate running on removing it won’t get elected.

The first step is always organization. Coming together as a group brings weight you don't get as an individual.

The next step is brainstorming. Planning. We need to figure out what, legally, we can do that will hurt the efforts being brought upon good American citizens. I have some thoughts on this, but this is a whole topic in and of itself and will be a large portion of debate.

Last, is action. Just like any organized structure we need people helping to push forward on what is agreed upon and make sure it gets implemented.

I need to formulate a new topic on the forum about this all together probably. I'm still mentally processing, but I'll post something.

 

[CaseHardened]

We need to figure out what, legally, we can do that will hurt the efforts being brought upon good American citizens.

really

since when has that worked ?

 

[Celt]

Agreed on Trump with the debt. That and not seizing the two years they had in control are my biggest disappointments. It’s getting stupid with the debt. I agree with others we’re going to the point of no return with the spending and debt. I think this administration will push us over the cliff.

Keep in mind, guys like Paul Ryan screwed us the first two years. He is an anti trumper and he was speaker of the house. He personally kept us from getting national reciprocity to the floor for a vote.

 

[BDinPutnam]

Oh please just stop.

 

[libertysnake]

really

since when has that worked ?

A better question is when have we ever tried? I've seen zero serious effort on the right. It's almost always a bunch of fudds in a room complaining.

 

[CaseHardened]

THE CAPITOL HAS BEEN INVADED.

IS IT TIME FOR MARTIAL LAW, AND A FULL INVESTIGATION OF THIS ELECTION - NOW ?

 

[BDinPutnam]

THE CAPITOL HAS BEEN INVADED.

IS IT TIME FOR MARTIAL LAW, AND A FULL INVESTIGATION OF THIS ELECTION - NOW ?

Invaded by whom?

You people are making the democrats 2016-2020 look like pikers.

Mission accomplished, Trump- did in 5 years what the Soviets, ChiComs, and assorted rabble tried to do for decades- destroy the Republican Party.

 

[Blimey]

For republicans who want to know who they should blame for the Senate losses last night in Georgia there are two pieces of information I share.

#1

The empirical analysis to test this
hypothesis is based on aggregate-level data from 31 countries...The
results of the analysis show that perceptions of electoral integrity are indeed
positively associated with propensity to vote.

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals

Subscription and open access journals from SAGE Publishing, the world's leading independent academic publisher.

journals.sagepub.com

#2

 

[CaseHardened]

Mission accomplished, Trump- did in 5 years what the Soviets, ChiComs, and assorted rabble tried to do for decades- destroy the Republican Party.

I have never laughed at any comment of yours before; I don't wish to ever again.

REPUBLICANS ARE NOTHING BUT ENABLERS.

If the party cannot be reformed, it should end.

 

[Defilade]

@Blimey @SonOfSun

For republicans who want to know who they should blame for the Senate losses last night in Georgia there are two pieces of information I share.

#1

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals

Subscription and open access journals from SAGE Publishing, the world's leading independent academic publisher.

journals.sagepub.com

#2

View attachment 102471

I asked you earlier in this thread as to what do you think of the Fraud in GA? it was captured in real time on news channels like the Presidental Election. The numbers flipped.

 

[Defilade]

Invaded by whom?

You people are making the democrats 2016-2020 look like pikers.

Mission accomplished, Trump- did in 5 years what the Soviets, ChiComs, and assorted rabble tried to do for decades- destroy the Republican Party.

someone has to stop the fraud, you going to ask permission? lol

 

[SonOfSun]

@Blimey @SonOfSun

I asked you earlier in this thread as to what do you think of the Fraud in GA? it was captured in real time on news channels like the Presidental Election. The numbers flipped.

Brad covered my thoughts on that.

 

[Defilade]

Brad covered my thoughts on that.

Brad? He thinks for ya? Got it.

 

[Blimey]

@Blimey @SonOfSun

I asked you earlier in this thread as to what do you think of the Fraud in GA? it was captured in real time on news channels like the Presidental Election. The numbers flipped.

No it wasn’t. All I’ve seen are lies. Lie after lie after lie.

 

[Robin]

Brad.

 

[spat]

You have to remember this was written at a time when smoking a plant wasn't considered a criminal act.

We also didn't have massive poverty rates and entire demographics of people that literally cannot afford a "reasonable" bail.

The idea of bail is directly contradictory with the philosophy of "innocent until proven guilty." If someone is innocent, why must they pay the government for their freedom?

Poverty back then was 1000x worse than it is now.

*real* poverty essentially doesn't exist in the US today.

Real poverty is characterized by malnutrition to the point of disease. Most of the worst diseases of the 18th century directly correlated to a specific nutrient deficiency. The biggest health threat to our poor today is obesity. Let that sink in.

The poorest in the US today have luxurious accommodations beyond the dreams of even the wealthiest 18th century residents.

So, don't talk to me about some guy with a smart phone, a 65" TV and air conditioning being poor. He may be stupid, but he's not poor.