Glock vs competitor reliability

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Ok this is likely to devolve into an argument, and it's probably a total noob question but I can't figure it out.

Glock has a reputation as being the benchmark of pistol reliability.

Are they really the benchmark, or has that just defaulted to them due to clever branding and being one of the most recognized polymer striker fired guns?

Is Glocks reputation mostly due to doing things differently when many guns were still being sold for duty as revolvers or metal frame hammer fired, Glock was obviously the one doing things their own way. I can see how they earned their reputation early on, but what about now compared to their competition?

Are other direct competitor polymer striker fired guns like the p10, p320, vp9, m&p9, apx, xd, 509 etc are they any less reliable? Are they all fairly comparable?

I mean this, I honestly can't figure out if Glock deserves their reputation or if it's just fantastic marketing. I see anecdotal references all over, stories about Glocks with ridiculous round counts without problems, high speed YouTube guys swear by their Glocks etc...

With modern engineering and designing Glock can't be doing anything that differently that other companies can't also do.

I hope to honestly try and understand this and not cause a huge flame war.

Yes this is what I'm wondering about while living the quarantine life.

 

[spat]

Ok this is likely to devolve into an argument, and it's probably a total noob question but I can't figure it out.

Glock has a reputation as being the benchmark of pistol reliability.

Are they really the benchmark, or has that just defaulted to them due to clever branding and being one of the most recognized polymer striker fired guns?

Is Glocks reputation mostly due to doing things differently when many guns were still being sold for duty as revolvers or metal frame hammer fired, Glock was obviously the one doing things their own way. I can see how they earned their reputation early on, but what about now compared to their competition?

Are other direct competitor polymer striker fired guns like the p10, p320, vp9, m&p9, apx, xd, 509 etc are they any less reliable? Are they all fairly comparable?

I mean this, I honestly can't figure out if Glock deserves their reputation or if it's just fantastic marketing. I see anecdotal references all over, stories about Glocks with ridiculous round counts without problems, high speed YouTube guys swear by their Glocks etc...

With modern engineering and designing Glock can't be doing anything that differently that other companies can't also do.

I hope to honestly try and understand this and not cause a huge flame war.

Yes this is what I'm wondering about while living the quarantine life.

They are the benchmark, because they are very good, but more importantly, everyone knows them.

But being the benchmark doesn't mean you are the best necessarily. It just means you are the one everyone gets compared to. Usually it's more about familiarity than superiority.

Sometimes that comparison may show an alternative to be superior, but that doesn't mean it automatically becomes the new benchmark.

Kinda like 9mm and .45 are the benchmarks for self defense calibers. Not because they are the best, but because they are the ones that the largest number of people have the most familiarity with.

 

[Jaywmustang]

I think you will find a lemon with all brands. I have 4000+ rounds through my g17 gen 5 with absolutely 0 issues.

 

[Criticalt]

The only thing I have to go by is my own expierience.
Ive had a couple glocks and have had no issues.
Ive had a couple M&Ps and had no issues.
Ive had a few Ruger revolvers and never had an issue.
Ive had a couple Sigs...both had issues.

I dont shoot as much as some but my 2 glocks and 3 M&Ps have ran flawlessly.

 

[cgrutt]

I love Glocks. I've had FTF issues with them while running them hard during training class but think it had more to do with the mud than anything else lol. Pretty sure brand would not have mattered there.

 

[dsdmmat]

I had a glock longslide compensated 40 caliber pistol back in the 90s, my second wife wanted it and she shot it a lot. I never cared for them really growing up on 1911s and revolvers, I never trusted the striker fire guns.

my first striker gun was a S&W SD9VE the trigger pull was horrible until I changed the spring kit. It is a reliable gun and fun to shoot. My next striker fire gun was a Ruger SR22 it is also a fun gun to shoot.

That was my striker gun experience until my daughter was at the Clackamus Town center when it was attacked by an active shooter in Dec 2012.I told her to go to all the gun stores in the area andhandle as many handguns she could, in a 9mm caliber, tell me what she decided on andi would get her one. She liked the Taurus 709 and the Springfield XD subcompact. I got her the Springfield in 9mm and one for me in 40. Both are great guns and get shot a lot. I got her a full sized XD9 a year later for her to go to the range with.

edit: forgot I bought a H&K VP9 and VP40 in October 2018 I like them, they shoot nice and are loaded sitting in place for emergencies.

That was my experience with striker guns until this past September when I handled a P320 and started building Poly 80s. I still don’t own a true glock because I don’t like the feel of the grip angle.

I think the P320 is my favorite striker fire gun. I don’t know if Glock deserves its reputation for the current product but it certainly earned it by being innovative and reliable when it came on the market.

 

[Jaywmustang]

I had a glock longslide compensated 40 caliber pistol back in the 90s, my second wife wanted it and she shot it a lot. I never cared for them really growing up on 1911s and revolvers, I never trusted the striker fire guns.

my first striker gun was a S&W SD9VE the trigger pull was horrible until I changed the spring kit. It is a reliable gun and fun to shoot. My next striker fire gun was a Ruger SR22 it is also a fun gun to shoot.

That was my striker gun experience until my daughter was at the Clackamus Town center when it was attacked by an active shooter in Dec 2012.I told her to go to all the gun stores in the area andhandle as many handguns she could, in a 9mm caliber, tell me what she decided on andi would get her one. She liked the Taurus 709 and the Springfield XD subcompact. I got her the Springfield in 9mm and one for me in 40. Both are great guns and get shot a lot. I got her a full sized XD9 a year later for her to go to the range with.

That was my experience with striker guns until this past September when I handled a P320 and started building Poly 80s. I still don’t own a true glock because I don’t like the feel of the grip angle.

I think the P320 is my favorite striker fire gun. I don’t know if Glock deserves its reputation for the current product but it certainly earned it by being innovative and reliable when it came on the market.

What I read about glocks grip angle kept me away from glocks for years. My buddy always uses grip angle for a reason for not getting a glock. He sure can shoot my glock good. I didn’t really have a lot of experience with pistols so I didn’t have a preference on grip angle.

 

[dsdmmat]

What I read about glocks grip angle kept me away from glocks for years. My buddy always uses grip angle for a reason for not getting a glock. He sure can shoot my glock good. I didn’t really have a lot of experience with pistols so I didn’t have a preferable on grip angle.

The Poly 80 changed the grip angle to the same as the 1911 so that is why I tried it and shoot it.

 

[spat]

What I read about glocks grip angle kept me away from glocks for years. My buddy always uses grip angle for a reason for not getting a glock. He sure can shoot my glock good. I didn’t really have a lot of experience with pistols so I didn’t have a preferable on grip angle.

Honestly, I think the grip angle thing is misunderstood.

I seriously doubt there is one "best" grip angle.

Everyone is built differently, and just like our feet all need different geometry in a shoe, our hands are all going to need different geometry in a grip.

It would be pretty cool if in 10 years, they start making guns 3d printed from parameterized models that are custom fit to your hand.

Like the difference between off the rack and a bespoke suit.

 

[Jaywmustang]

Honestly, I think the grip angle thing is misunderstood.

I seriously doubt there is one "best" grip angle.

Everyone is built differently, and just like our feet all need different geometry in a shoe, our hands are all going to need different geometry in a grip.

It would be pretty cool if in 10 years, they start making guns 3d printed from parameterized models that are custom fit to your hand.

Like the difference between off the rack and a bespoke suit.

I did try my buddy’s Springfield xd something in 45 last year and it did feel a little weird in my hand after shooting glocks.

 

[oc shooter]

SHOT A BUNCH OF GLOCKS JUST DON'T DO IT FOR ME AS FAR AS RELIABILITY GOES MY BERETTA 92 HAS BETTER THAN 10000 ROUNDS THROUGH IT AND NEVER A HICCUP EXCEPT WHEN I FAILED TO SEAT A MAGAZINE MY SIG P320/m17 IS AT AROUND 20000 RUNS JUST FINE THE SAME CAN BE SAID OF BOTH MY KIMBERS SO I GUESS MY BENCH MARK IS MY 92 BERETTA

 

[Marine Cpl]

What I read about glocks grip angle kept me away from glocks for years. My buddy always uses grip angle for a reason for not getting a glock. He sure can shoot my glock good. I didn’t really have a lot of experience with pistols so I didn’t have a preference on grip angle.

Regarding grip angle, I have shot other guns well at the range at paper. 1911’s, Springfields, Rugers. All hit bulls with deliberate aiming. Surprisingly I shot a tiny Ruger LCP 2 with an extended mag that gives me a full grip and feels the best in my hand the best on paper. I even got a comment from a guy next to me at the range about how well I shoot that little gun.

Not too long ago I got to shoot steel in a backyard and all that changed. At about 10 yards, I missed like crazy with the Ruger LCP. I kept shooting low. In order to hit, I had to aim high above the target. With my Glock 26 though, I was dead nuts.

I kept going back and forth and realized that it was the grip angle. When I would do slow fire and deliberately line up the sights and squeeze slow, I hit with the Ruger. When I just drew and fired at the 3 steel targets quickly I missed unless I aimed high. With the Glock both slow and fast, I hit. It was naturally lined up perfectly. With the Ruger although more comfortable, I had to raise my front sight up each time after pointing naturally.

Food for thought. The grip angle on Glocks may be the correct angle even though it doesn’t feel right to you.

 

[spat]

Regarding grip angle, I have shot other guns well at the range at paper. 1911’s, Springfields, Rugers. All hit bulls with deliberate aiming. Surprisingly I shot a tiny Ruger LCP 2 with an extended mag that gives me a full grip and feels the best in my hand the best on paper. I even got a comment from a guy next to me at the range about how well I shoot that little gun.

Not too long ago I got to shoot steel in a backyard and all that changed. At about 10 yards, I missed like crazy with the Ruger LCP. I kept shooting low. In order to hit, I had to aim high above the target. With my Glock 26 though, I was dead nuts.

I kept going back and forth and realized that it was the grip angle. When I would do slow fire and deliberately line up the sights and squeeze slow, I hit with the Ruger. When I just drew and fired at the 3 steel targets quickly I missed unless I aimed high. With the Glock both slow and fast, I hit. It was naturally lined up perfectly. With the Ruger although more comfortable, I had to raise my front sight up each time after pointing naturally.

Food f

or thought. The grip angle on Glocks may be the correct angle even though it doesn’t feel right to you.

The other factor to consider is training.

If you have tens of thousands of rounds down range with one grip angle, you will naturally point and shoot much better with another gun with a similar angle. Even if it isn't the best angle for you.

You will probably even shoot worse using a gun with a "better" angle for you under those circumstances.

 

[Criticalt]

SHOT A BUNCH OF GLOCKS JUST DON'T DO IT FOR ME AS FAR AS RELIABILITY GOES MY BERETTA 92 HAS BETTER THAN 10000 ROUNDS THROUGH IT AND NEVER A HICCUP EXCEPT WHEN I FAILED TO SEAT A MAGAZINE MY SIG P320/m17 IS AT AROUND 20000 RUNS JUST FINE THE SAME CAN BE SAID OF BOTH MY KIMBERS SO I GUESS MY BENCH MARK IS MY 92 BERETTA

There is a video on Youtube of a guy with over 50,000 rounds in his Glock 17.
In over 6 years he has not cleaned the gun or even wiped it off. He claims hes had zero problems.
Anecdotal and maybe BS but very interesting.

 

[Darth]

Honda Civic Syndrome.

I don't get the grip angle thing.

To me that's been like saying you have 2 guns with different bore axis, but aim them at the same hight.

I don't line up my grip angle to shoot, I like up my sights.

I get a grip on any gun I shoot and then line the sights up the same way. Unless point shooting in which case accuracy is what it is anyway.

 

[spat]

Honda Civic Syndrome.

I don't get the grip angle thing.

To me that's been like saying you have 2 guns with different bore axis, but aim them at the same hight.

I don't line up my grip angle to shoot, I like up my sights.

I get a grip on any gun I shoot and then line the sights up the same way. Unless point shooting in which case accuracy is what it is anyway.

If you get a gun that points well (or you practice sufficiently to develop that with a gun) you do not need to actively line up the sights.

You will find them already lined up when you bring the gun into firing position.

With slow fire and deliberate action, it shouldn't matter. But, when you get to the point where it's necessary to trade accuracy for speed, it can make a huge difference.

Most situations where you actually "need" a handgun, you will need to trade a fair bit of accuracy for speed.

 

[Darth]

If you get a gun that points well (or you practice sufficiently to develop that with a gun) you do not need to actively line up the sights.

You will find them already lined up when you bring the gun into firing position.

With slow fire and deliberate action, it shouldn't matter. But, when you get to the point where it's necessary to trade accuracy for speed, it can make a huge difference.

Most situations where you actually "need" a handgun, you will need to trade a fair bit of accuracy for speed.

Disagree. With the wide variety I shoot you are either point shooting or looking for the front sight. At least for me, from polymer to metal to revolver, the grip angle thing has been an excuse.

 

[dsdmmat]

Disagree. With the wide variety I shoot you are either point shooting or looking for the front sight. At least for me, from polymer to metal to revolver, the grip angle thing has been an excuse.

For me it has nothing to do with the way it shoots, it has more to do with the way it feels in the hand. The first time I picked up a glock I just didn’t like the way of felt in my hand and I suspect that has a lot to do with the grip angle.

 

[spat]

Disagree. With the wide variety I shoot you are either point shooting or looking for the front sight. At least for me, from polymer to metal to revolver, the grip angle thing has been an excuse.

If you have experience with a wide variety, I am sure you're right.

Other people might have plenty of trigger time, but it's all on 1911's, so they are handicapped switching to a glock, or vice versa.

I am also sure you're right about it being the "excuse du jure" for a lot of people.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Try this exercise if you have various pistols with different grip angles. Just point at an object quickly. If you see that one gun is dead nuts up and down naturally and others you either have to dip the front sight down or up, then the one you have to adjust isn’t the correct grip angle for you during rapid fire when most mechanics go out the window.

 

[Darth]

For me it has nothing to do with the way it shoots, it has more to do with the way it feels in the hand. The first time I picked up a glock I just didn’t like the way of felt in my hand and I suspect that has a lot to do with the grip angle.

This I understand. Hence one of the reasons I prefer my P99s.

Plus they had interchangeable backstraps way before Glock.

 

[Darth]

Try this exercise if you have various pistols with different grip angles. Just point at an object quickly. If you see that one gun is dead nuts up and down naturally and others you either have to dip the front sight down or up, then the one you have to adjust isn’t the correct grip angle for you during rapid fire when most mechanics go out the window.

They should make it a sport where you, say, switch quickly between 3 or so guns and see who can hit the targets.

 

[Target]

I believe that its mostly hype and marketing.
I would not , and have not selceted a Glock over a Springfield or M&P.

When I purchased my first pistol, I did research and came to the conclusion that Glock was only the best because they were so popular.
They were so popular because they were practically given away to PD . This established that they must be superior because Cops stake their lives on them and would not issue anything but the best.

Are they reliable? Absolutely. Provenly so. Are the M&P and XD as well? Yes. yes they are. Even the lowly Taurus G2 series are said to be quite good.

I did not like the angle of the Glock frame and was used to 45 style frames from having 45s on my paintball guns. They had 1911 style slide triggers and took the same grips. The Glock felt odd. I chose a XD9 and do not regret it.

The only reason that I would chose Glock today is for the parts and accessory availability and not the never fail reputation.
I'd learn the platform and adjust to the grip .

In all reality, how many high round guns are out there.?
I'd wager that the average shooter and even Police trade in guns don't have 2000 rounds through them ?

Even a Hi-point should make it that far.

 

[Edwardteach72]

I believe that its mostly hype and marketing.
I would not , and have not selceted a Glock over a Springfield or M&P.

When I purchased my first pistol, I did research and came to the conclusion that Glock was only the best because they were so popular.
They were so popular because they were practically given away to PD . This established that they must be superior because Cops stake their lives on them and would not issue anything but the best.

Are they reliable? Absolutely. Provenly so. Are the M&P and XD as well? Yes. yes they are. Even the lowly Taurus G2 series are said to be quite good.

I did not like the angle of the Glock frame and was used to 45 style frames from having 45s on my paintball guns. They had 1911 style slide triggers and took the same grips. The Glock felt odd. I chose a XD9 and do not regret it.

The only reason that I would chose Glock today is for the parts and accessory availability and not the never fail reputation.
I'd learn the platform and adjust to the grip .

In all reality, how many high round guns are out there.?
I'd wager that the average shooter and even Police trade in guns don't have 2000 rounds through them ?

Even a Hi-point should make it that far.

Xd are not on the same level of reliability as Glcok or Smith and wesson. Or sig or FN or HK.

the XD lines are cheap guns on the same low level as Taurus and SCCY or other sub par offerings

 

[Marine Cpl]

Xd are not on the same level of reliability as Glcok or Smith and wesson. Or sig or FN or HK.

the XD lines are cheap guns on the same low level as Taurus and SCCY or other sub par offerings

Not saying that XD’s are the same as Glock as far as reliability goes on an overall basis but comparing them to Taurus is just false. I carried an XDS for a couple of years and never once had an issue as far as reliability goes. Same goes for my dad’s XD Subcompact.

And not for nothing, the finish on both the barrel and the slide seemed to be of better quality. Well looked better at least. When I first got a Glock and saw that dull metal after taking it apart, I was like what is this shit? I never got any scratches on the slide either unlike my Glock that got a few minor scratches from kydex.

 

[Edwardteach72]

I was looking more for a numbers thing.

That is more like "All. 40 Glocks Kaboom."

And I don't own and and Springfields.

I'm trying to find the follow up where the mention how many glocks came through his classes in those 2 years, and how many failed, I believe the second number was under 5 with the first number much much much higher than how many XD guns came through yet 20 had catastrophic failures

 

[Edwardteach72]

Anyways @Drinkthekoolaid glock recieved the trophy of being so reliable due to at the time very few offerings for double stack semiauto guns on the market,

Glock was able to win over the whole NYPD to switch from revolvers (other pretty much most departments to do so) in the 80s when not as many options as we have today let alone at the price glock was pushing in the beginning.

Since then most companies are in many ways copying glocks design, in some way or another. Today if you grabbed almost any modern polymer striker off the rack and get the sameish reliability +/-


Oh and to add to the top point it also gave civilians a less expensive, lighter, higher capacity and (at the time) more reliable choice for the 80s even though most people did not want to be early adopters of the new polymer wonder 9s because "toys" and "plastic"

 

[Marine Cpl]

Yea, who brought up that grip angle stuff

This guy did. It was relevant to the discussion. Talking about Glocks on a Glock thread isn’t a derailment.

What I read about glocks grip angle kept me away from glocks for years. My buddy always uses grip angle for a reason for not getting a glock. He sure can shoot my glock good. I didn’t really have a lot of experience with pistols so I didn’t have a preference on grip angle.

 

[Edwardteach72]

There is a video on Youtube of a guy with over 50,000 rounds in his Glock 17.
In over 6 years he has not cleaned the gun or even wiped it off. He claims hes had zero problems.
Anecdotal and maybe BS but very interesting.

Since I derail threads. (Or maybe @Drinkthekoolaid may find this single sample interesting)

100,000 rounds 5 years 2015-2020 obviously standard maintenance, and yes it's an "agency arms" but still deep down a glock

 

[Jaywmustang]

This guy did. It was relevant to the discussion. Talking about Glocks on a Glock thread isn’t a derailment.

It wasn’t me, it was dsdmmat post 6 second to last paragraph lol. I’m the victim here