Joe Biden’s international skills had better come out soon or were dead. China, North Korea, and Russia increasing aggression

[tirwin1]

A Ukraine War and the End of Russia - Zeihan on Geopolitics

Demographics are at the core of what we do here at Zeihan on Geopolitics. More than just a count of population, demographic data--often expressed as a pyramid-shaped graph--can deliver a wealth of information about a society.

zeihan.com

 

[1911guy]

To answer the thread: "

Joe Biden’s international skills had better come out soon or were dead.​

I believe he has demonstrated those skills over the past 50 years. A big ZERO.

 

[livingston]

anyone remember this game

 

[livingston]

anyone remember this game

Played it a lot as a kid... Taught me about the " stan " countries east of China... Most people never heard to these countries.

 

[GOPerfect]

 

[spat]

UKRAINE FOREIGN MINISTRY:

“There have been no radical changes in the security situation recently. The accumulation of Russian troops near the state border began in April last year”

 

[spat]

I still have not heard, imo, a good and valid reason for the US to get involved.

I am open to the reasons, I just don't see them.

Because we live on this planet, and if it burns down around us it will be bad.


Your view is like living in a duplex and saying the fire in your neighbors kitchen is not your problem.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Because we live on this planet, and if it burns down around us it will be bad.


Your view is like living in a duplex and saying the fire in your neighbors kitchen is not your problem.

I somewhat disagree here.

We can't be the Karen neighbor telling everyone we don't like how you decorate your yard so we're going to go the the HOA and punish you.

There are things that IMO are not our problem nor concern. I'm not pro or anti Russia. I'm not pro or anti Ukraine. But I get Russia is feeling nervous being encircled by an ever encroaching NATO. if the situation was reversed and Russia was trying to get Mexico to ally and be a part of their bloc we wouldn't think it's so great.

Frankly I could give a shit what Russia does in their sandbox, we can't be the world's policeman. Let Europe handle their neighbors this is their problem. They choose to depend on an adversarial country for their energy needs.

Seriously as far as I'm concerned Germany and Europe can go to hell. They have benefited tremendously from the US protecting them with our resources so they didn't have to. They instead of spending their money on defense spent it on social programs and decided to be OG woke and progressive giving their citizens as high of a standard of living as they can since they didn't have to worry about borders or defense, then they felt it advantageous to get cheap energy from a potentially hostile nation because it further enhanced their great progressive societies and now they've essentially backed themselves into a corner with a shortsighted suicide pact. Germany and others literal survival is in the hands of a nation that they are now beholden to.

You can't make this up.


personally I'm more concerned with china. They are our problem whether we like it or not.


The absolute last thing we want is Russia and china to ally against us.

 

[Saltwater60]

Ukrainian President Allegedly Mocks Biden’s USA: "Americans are safer in Kyiv than they are in Los Angeles...or any other crime-ridden city in the US."

Some Ukrainians Are Angry About Washington Ordering Diplomats’ Families To Leave The US Embassy

“Quite frankly these Americans are safer in Kyiv than they are in Los Angeles ... or any other crime-ridden city in the US,” said a source close to President Volodymyr Zelensky.

www.buzzfeednews.com

But everyone loves Biden and that’s why this couldn’t happen??

 

[GOPerfect]

Because we live on this planet, and if it burns down around us it will be bad.


Your view is like living in a duplex and saying the fire in your neighbors kitchen is not your problem.

So, should we fight all battles for every nation?

Where does is end?

Two more nations in Africa just went through civil wars and the government of each place was violently taken over, should we have sent in troops?

The ones that seem to always scream to give military support never served, never went to these horrible conflicts.

No offense to any here that never served. But, I keep hearing the elected elite speaking the same thing and I bet they are not sending their kids and grandkids to these wars and conflicts

 

[livingston]

I somewhat disagree here.

We can't be the Karen neighbor telling everyone we don't like how you decorate your yard so we're going to go the the HOA and punish you.

There are things that IMO are not our problem nor concern. I'm not pro or anti Russia. I'm not pro or anti Ukraine. But I get Russia is feeling nervous being encircled by an ever encroaching NATO. if the situation was reversed and Russia was trying to get Mexico to ally and be a part of their bloc we wouldn't think it's so great.

Frankly I could give a shit what Russia does in their sandbox, we can't be the world's policeman. Let Europe handle their neighbors this is their problem. They choose to depend on an adversarial country for their energy needs.

Seriously as far as I'm concerned Germany and Europe can go to hell. They have benefited tremendously from the US protecting them with our resources so they didn't have to. They instead of spending their money on defense spent it on social programs and decided to be OG woke and progressive giving their citizens as high of a standard of living as they can since they didn't have to worry about borders or defense, then they felt it advantageous to get cheap energy from a potentially hostile nation because it further enhanced their great progressive societies and now they've essentially backed themselves into a corner with a shortsighted suicide pact. Germany and others literal survival is in the hands of a nation that they are now beholden to.

You can't make this up.


personally I'm more concerned with china. They are our problem whether we like it or not.


The absolute last thing we want is Russia and china to ally against us.

I believe China and Russia have an agreement already

Russian President Vladimir Putin and Chinese leader Xi Jinping oversaw an ambitious joint military exercise in China this summer, which along with reported collaborations in aviation, undersea and hypersonic-weapons technology point to a solidifying defense alignment, according to military analysts.

China and Russia Military Cooperation Raises Prospect of New Challenge to American Power

Joint military exercises, coordinated weapons development and technology sharing are seen as tools in a campaign to limit U.S. might abroad, military analysts and U.S. officials say.

www.wsj.com

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

I believe China and Russia have an agreement already

Russian President Vladimir Putin and Chinese leader Xi Jinping oversaw an ambitious joint military exercise in China this summer, which along with reported collaborations in aviation, undersea and hypersonic-weapons technology point to a solidifying defense alignment, according to military analysts.

China and Russia Military Cooperation Raises Prospect of New Challenge to American Power

Joint military exercises, coordinated weapons development and technology sharing are seen as tools in a campaign to limit U.S. might abroad, military analysts and U.S. officials say.

www.wsj.com

That is indeed concerning.

 

[livingston]

That is indeed concerning.

This whole situation could become a big shit show .. Rather quickly. The United States is keeping the lid on many simmering situations and has been for years. .... And we have enjoyed this peace dividend (the entire world that is ).
Russia would like a lot of it's lost areas back... China wants Taiwan Iran wants to destroy and take over half the middle east. Turkey would love to expand it's reach .... Could see a massive influx of people crossing our southern border .... Tens of millions of people perhaps every year.

We have blown our wad on so much crap here in this country... Save the earth and destroy our energy independence. shut down our coal mines and steel mills. ... War takes a lot of steel. There are only one or two places in this country that builds ships today... Will China keep buying our money debt if we are at war with them... We can run a high tech war for a while... We depend on a lot of other countries for that tech. What happens when that supply runs out. .. We could not defeat a bunch of goat herders that had access to limited tech we see many countries use today. ... That is a real point to ponder...
On another front ... Cyber wars .... How much could another country shut us down... EMP... or just a cyber attack on our grid .. Electric, communication , Water, ... Hell we right now are having trouble just keeping shelves stocked .... How about a sub start sinking all the container ships off the coast.
Just saying folks When all the shooting is done .. Could be a whole different world than what Joe Biden envisions..

 

[fresch]

Problem is we entered into agreements after WWii , so jap and germ could not build up military.
Throw in nato and we have/can be/will be, in any conflict around the world.

 

[Bigfoot]

It will be interesting how Biden Obama handles this situation as it plays out.

It will be interesting to see what Obama is told to do by the people that are really in charge.

Tinfoil Hat? IDK

 

[holdover]

I still have not heard, imo, a good and valid reason for the US to get involved.

I am open to the reasons, I just don't see them.

There are none.

 

[Phazer]

Yep, and some of my people were there at the beginning.

And mine fled for their lives in the 1920s.

 

[holdover]

So, should we fight all battles for every nation?

Where does is end?

Two more nations in Africa just went through civil wars and the government of each place was violently taken over, should we have sent in troops?

The ones that seem to always scream to give military support never served, never went to these horrible conflicts.

No offense to any here that never served. But, I keep hearing the elected elite speaking the same thing and I bet they are not sending their kids and grandkids to these wars and conflicts

We're all big kids now. ""Helping people ""is just a sales pitch, Always was.

 

[spat]

So, should we fight all battles for every nation?

Where does is end?

Two more nations in Africa just went through civil wars and the government of each place was violently taken over, should we have sent in troops?

The ones that seem to always scream to give military support never served, never went to these horrible conflicts.

No offense to any here that never served. But, I keep hearing the elected elite speaking the same thing and I bet they are not sending their kids and grandkids to these wars and conflicts

No, only the ones that threaten to escalate into another world war.

If shitstainistan wants to invade their neighbor, not a problem.

But when it looks like Germany and Poland all over again, then, yea, we might want to head that off at the pass.

 

[GOPerfect]

No, only the ones that threaten to escalate into another world war.

If shitstainistan wants to invade their neighbor, not a problem.

But when it looks like Germany and Poland all over again, then, yea, we might want to head that off at the pass.

The US government is the only one pushing. Have you read some of the things being said from the Ukraine government? They are saying that this sabre rattling from the US is unneeded and unwanted.

Russia is not looking to take over Europe. Not even close. We need to take a serious pass on this and let it play out.

Spat, can you show me where this is leading to WW3? Serious question./

 

[spat]

The US government is the only one pushing. Have you read some of the things being said from the Ukraine government? They are saying that this sabre rattling from the US is unneeded and unwanted.

Russia is not looking to take over Europe. Not even close. We need to take a serious pass on this and let it play out.

Spat, can you show me where this is leading to WW3? Serious question./

I have no doubt that Biden's approach to this is making things worse.

But, while the borders in Eastern Europe can shift without incident, if they do so violently it has a habit of spilling out.

If it's all just saber rattling, the it's no big deal. If Putin has no actual intention of conquest then they can spew rhetoric all day long for all I care.

But, once sovereign states start dissolving, they have a habit of spreading.

If Ukraine falls, I have no doubt that Russia will "find" some more former territories that it needs to re-acquire.

This is *exactly* how WWII started, with Hitler "reuniting" territory he claimed were really parts of Germany (some of them really were).

Appeasement was a terrible solution then, and it will be a terrible one now.


If the people of the Ukraine don't want to be part of Russia, what gives Putin the right to force them ?

 

[GOPerfect]

I have no doubt that Biden's approach to this is making things worse.

But, while the borders in Eastern Europe can shift without incident, if they do so violently it has a habit of spilling out.

If it's all just saber rattling, the it's no big deal. If Putin has no actual intention of conquest then they can spew rhetoric all day long for all I care.

But, once sovereign states start dissolving, they have a habit of spreading.

If Ukraine falls, I have no doubt that Russia will "find" some more former territories that it needs to re-acquire.

This is *exactly* how WWII started, with Hitler "reuniting" territory he claimed were really parts of Germany (some of them really were).

Appeasement was a terrible solution then, and it will be a terrible one now.


If the people of the Ukraine don't want to be part of Russia, what gives Putin the right to force them ?

This all may be true. But right about now, I am all for Russia doing what Russia wants to do. I do not want an all out war and that is where Biden is taking us.

I do not want my sons to go to war. My family has fought enough in the past 20 years or so. All these people that want to fight Russia? Go, sign up and fight them.

 

[spat]

This all may be true. But right about now, I am all for Russia doing what Russia wants to do. I do not want an all out war and that is where Biden is taking us.

I do not want my sons to go to war. My family has fought enough in the past 20 years or so. All these people that want to fight Russia? Go, sign up and fight them.

The point is not to fight Russia.

The point is to avoid a much larger fight.

We are only facing this danger because Biden projected such weakness. If Trump were still in office there would be no fight and no danger here.

If you want to avoid a fight, you must project strength. Projecting weakness is the fastest way to get into a fight.

So, if you don't want to get dragged into a fight in esstern Europe, the best way to do that is to make it absolutely clear that you will utterly curb stomp anyone who tries.

 

[GOPerfect]

The point is not to fight Russia.

The point is to avoid a much larger fight.

We are only facing this danger because Biden projected such weakness. If Trump were still in office there would be no fight and no danger here.

If you want to avoid a fight, you must project strength. Projecting weakness is the fastest way to get into a fight.

So, if you don't want to get dragged into a fight in esstern Europe, the best way to do that is to make it absolutely clear that you will utterly curb stomp anyone who tries.

I had the honor and the privilege to serve for a bit along some Russian Soldiers years back...

We will not be stomping them like some my think.

These are not untrained and unorganized Taliban and ISIS type soldiers.

Just saying.

 

[holdover]

The longer this goes on the more I wonder if this isn't tied to Barisima or some other dealings in the Ukraine.

I cant prove it, but its looking shady.

 

[spat]

I had the honor and the privilege to serve for a bit along some Russian Soldiers years back...

We will not be stomping them like some my think.

These are not untrained and unorganized Taliban and ISIS type soldiers.

Just saying.

Training doesn't come into it. They are not better trained than our military. Although Biden is quickly working to rectify that.

It's resources. They have some equipment that is top notch, but not in quantity the way we do.

They would have the home field advantage in the Ukraine theater though.

And if we can't curb stomp them anymore, we need to regain that ability.

And it's not enough to just be able to dominate any battlespace, you need *everyone* to know for certain you can do it.

The minute Putin thinks he has a chance of victory, we have already failed.

 

[holdover]

They are tougher than our military. They beat the Germans against all odds ,They beat Napolean. They are a tough breed of men . thier leadership isnt no where as good as ours , but they cancel out .

 

[GOPerfect]

The Russian Armed Forces have the world's most powerful ground force, and the second-most powerful air force (only behind the United States) along with the 2nd most powerful navy. Russia has the world's fourth-highest military expenditure, spending $61.7 billion in 2021.

There training is amazing. A well trained Soldier is nothing to mess with at all. All that I served with were well trained in their jobs, could shoot, and had amazing physical fitness. We did some hand to hand training with them and they were nothing less than impressive. I did not see a single fat Russian Soldier.

I think many just have no clue how dominating they are.


This is not an exaggeration....

Americans should not be excited about going to war with them, just saying.

 

[spat]

The Russian Armed Forces have the world's most powerful ground force, and the second-most powerful air force (only behind the United States) along with the 2nd most powerful navy. Russia has the world's fourth-highest military expenditure, spending $61.7 billion in 2021.

There training is amazing. A well trained Soldier is nothing to mess with at all. All that I served with were well trained in their jobs, could shoot, and had amazing physical fitness. We did some hand to hand training with them and they were nothing less than impressive. I did not see a single fat Russian Soldier.

I think many just have no clue how dominating they are.


This is not an exaggeration....

Americans should not be excited about going to war with them, just saying.

Their spending of $60 billion sounds impressive, until you compare it to ours at $750 billion.

More than 10x as much.

And they do not have the worlds second best air force.

That would be the US Navy.

Russia is 3rd.

Their greatest asset is politicians who are willing to do whatever it takes to win. That has been the only thing that has held the US back since before the civil war.

 

[GOPerfect]

Their spending of $60 billion sounds impressive, until you compare it to ours at $750 billion.

More than 10x as much.

And they do not have the worlds second best air force.

That would be the US Navy.

Russia is 3rd.

Their greatest asset is politicians who are willing to do whatever it takes to win. That has been the only thing that has held the US back since before the civil war.

You seem so sure they are easily beatable, maybe you should sign up and find out. Not trying to disrespect at all, they are tough sons of bitches and the US had better realize this fact.

If we have to fight them, it will NOT be an easy task. Their ROE are very different than ours. Very different than what our Military is used to. Just pointing out facts/.