LEO should be subject to the same restrictions as civilians.

[GOPerfect]

We should . Or at least the equal opportunity. If you don’t go to medical school and get a license, you can’t operate as a doctor .
If they said everyone had to meet the police standards and gave the opportunity, then it should be equal as the officers without any doubt. And I don’t agree with NJ’s attempt to do so. I don’t think shooting from a kneeling position should be a requirement especially if one is in a wheelchair.

Going to Medical school is NOT a Right though.

There should be none, zero requirements to exercise a Right.

There should be no written tests. No live ammo shooting. No permits and no license.

As for Police Standards, many are a joke. Not even a funny one. Most that I know could out shoot and out maneuver many on the job.

I have been to multiple academies, I was never all that impressed with what they taught me.

You appear to see the gun thing as a privilege, I see owning and carrying arms a real Right of the people.

 

[spat]

All Police Academy's do this to a point. You almost have to to a certain degree. It is tough to put into words why.

A lot of what they want cops to do requires them to see the people they are doing it to as "lesser".

Some of the people really are "lesser", but it's not really the cops place to decide which are which.

But the indoctrination tends to make them see the badge as the distinction.

 

[spat]

I think the "no titles of nobility" clause in the Constitution should be interpreted to mean no government agent can claim any immunity not granted to the citizens at large.

You can have exemptions based on circumstances (i.e. ignore speed limits when responding to a bona fide emergency), but not by employment status.

 

[GOPerfect]

I think the "no titles of nobility" clause in the Constitution should be interpreted to mean no government agent can claim any immunity not granted to the citizens at large.

You can have exemptions based on circumstances (i.e. ignore speed limits when responding to a bona fide emergency), but not by employment status.

Due to the nature of some jobs, I know this needs to exist. I can give hundreds, if not thousands of examples. Many are examples of where I have found myself in the past.

 

[spat]

Due to the nature of some jobs, I know this needs to exist. I can give hundreds, if not thousands of examples. Many are examples of where I have found myself in the past.

Either give everyone the exemption, or make it based in the circumstances the people doing that job find themselves in.

Or just stop doing that part of the job.

Government employees love to claim "I couldn't do my job if I wasn't exempt from that". At the same time Government places more and more roadblocks for regular people to do their jobs, and their answer is always "you'll figure out a way".

Well, I think Government employees will figure out a way too.

Either that, or we'll figure out a way to not need that part of that job at all.

 

[GOPerfect]

Either give everyone the exemption, or make it based in the circumstances the people doing that job find themselves in.

Or just stop doing that part of the job.

Government employees love to claim "I couldn't do my job if I wasn't exempt from that". At the same time Government places more and more roadblocks for regular people to do their jobs, and their answer is always "you'll figure out a way".

Well, I think Government employees will figure out a way too.

Either that, or we'll figure out a way to not need that part of that job at all.

I could not be effective in my job if I did not have Qualified immunity. Period. This is fact.

 

[dwa12479]

And screaming that cops and retired cops get them , so we should take it away from them does not help you reach that goal . Just the opposite. You alienate those of us who are pro -2A and those cops who don’t have strong feelings on the subject .
You would have more an effect if you said “me too” then complaining that cops get this and that .
Why not complain about military members ? They also have more gun rights under the law in NYS. And yes, their chain of command limits them but NY law does grant them more rights. It’s the same for LE. I knew someone who joined a department who had a policy of no off duty carry at all . If they got caught carrying , they were fired. Another department had a no carry for the first year policy . The military isn’t the only one with such restrictions.
But as far as me categorizing this as attempt to take away things from cops , just read the title of this thread . Change the title to we should have the same as cops and you will have a point .

If you read what I wrote, thats EXACTLY what I'm saying. Don't take anytning from LEO. Give everyone the same. Its really quite simple.

 

[spat]

I could not be effective in my job if I did not have Qualified immunity. Period. This is fact.

Doctors manage to find a way. Dozens of other professions too.

Maybe we just need to pay you enough that you can afford serious malpractice insurance.

Maybe your effectiveness will drop.

*maybe* we'll finally fix our absolutely fucked up tort system.

But, I think whatever combination of those we finally settle on will be better than what we have.

Certainly there are many people who don't have any sort of immunity who would be far more effective if they did. But we have decided that we are better off with less efficient doctors and truck drivers than we are with unaccountable ones.

 

[GOPerfect]

Doctors manage to find a way. Dozens of other professions too.

Maybe we just need to pay you enough that you can afford serious malpractice insurance.

Maybe your effectiveness will drop.

*maybe* we'll finally fix our absolutely fucked up tort system.

But, I think whatever combination of those we finally settle on will be better than what we have.

Certainly there are many people who don't have any sort of immunity who would be far more effective if they did. But we have decided that we are better off with less efficient doctors and truck drivers than we are with unaccountable ones.

I will give you an example, a while back, we had a seriously intoxicated, high, individual in our custody. He had OD'ed. I gave him Narcan, three doses. He died. I got sued. If I had to pay for an attorney, that would have cost me thousands.

Last year, a trans filed suit against me for verbal abuse. That lawyer would have cost me lots as well. Police do not get paid enough to pay for these lawyers.

 

[spat]

I will give you an example, a while back, we had a seriously intoxicated, high, individual in our custody. He had OD'ed. I gave him Narcan, three doses. He died. I got sued. If I had to pay for an attorney, that would have cost me thousands.

Last year, a trans filed suit against me for verbal abuse. That lawyer would have cost me lots as well. Police do not get paid enough to pay for these lawyers.

Doctors run into both of those same issues.

The solution is that we pay them enough to afford malpractice insurance.

So, we pay you guys like doctors. Problem solved.

If the price of getting rid of qualified immunity is paying cops $500k salaries, then we pay it.

 

[Truebeliever]

Going to Medical school is NOT a Right though.

There should be none, zero requirements to exercise a Right.

There should be no written tests. No live ammo shooting. No permits and no license.

As for Police Standards, many are a joke. Not even a funny one. Most that I know could out shoot and out maneuver many on the job.

I have been to multiple academies, I was never all that impressed with what they taught me.

You appear to see the gun thing as a privilege, I see owning and carrying arms a real Right of the people.

They are a joke . And I understand what you are saying . I see that I do have the privilege that they only curtailed some of my rights as opposed to all of them . Are there certain privileges that I am granted even if national carry is enacted . There sure are. I can carry in places that the average person won’t because of the choice of the property owner . Do I believe in the must issue carry permit . I do. No different than voter registration if they have to give it to you. Do I believe in gun registration? Nope,
Am I a life member of the NRA and give money to GOA , FPC and others .

I think the "no titles of nobility" clause in the Constitution should be interpreted to mean no government agent can claim any immunity not granted to the citizens at large.

You can have exemptions based on circumstances (i.e. ignore speed limits when responding to a bona fide emergency), but not by employment status.

that’s not qualified immunity. Note the word qualified . Unlike judges and prosecutors, who have absolute immunity , cops get sued all the time . Qualified immunity means if the cop did their job right, they can’t be sued . For example , if the cop makes an arrest because he had probable cause , such as a woman pointed at someone and said that man raped me, and the cop makes the arrest but later DNA says it wasn’t him. The cop can’t be sued for doing his job. Or if in 1961, a cop hot a confession without reading Miranda rights because the Miranda decision hadn’t been created yet, he can’t be sued for a “right” that hadn’t been created yet. Cops get sued all the time despite qualified immunity and that the cop did their job 100% right. Cops actually have less rights. Cops get false accusations and defamed in the press all the time and the courts will not allow deformation lawsuits that most people could file . A man has a better change of getting physical custody in a divorce than cop has of getting a deformation lawsuit before a court. A cop gets hurt, he gets Line of duty pay but it’s very hard for the cop to sue for those injuries under the firefighter’s rule — it a higher burden than a normal person would have to meet.
That’s just a few examples. Like the military, if an off duty cop gets in trouble , he faces the court then he had to face the department. Double punishment that can cost the cop hundreds of thousands of dollars in value for what could be a ticket-able offense.
Can you be forced to testify ? Cops can and are . It’s under Garrity v NJ . Cops can be forced to tell what happened to their department where they can not force a “civilian “ to talk . Plead the 5th and almost instantly lose hundreds of thousands of dollars of value and your job even if you did nothing wrong .
It’s not a title of nobility but something earned. Or maybe you think we should take away the extra points veterans get on civil service exams or certain rights veterans get that the general public doesn’t . I’m not just talking about healthcare and pensions but additional rights . Certain business preferences and actual things veterans can do that non veterans can’t . Do you think we should take that away too?

 

[spat]

They are a joke . And I understand what you are saying . I see that I do have the privilege that they only curtailed some of my rights as opposed to all of them . Are there certain privileges that I am granted even if national carry is enacted . There sure are. I can carry in places that the average person won’t because of the choice of the property owner . Do I believe in the must issue carry permit . I do. No different than voter registration if they have to give it to you. Do I believe in gun registration? Nope,
Am I a life member of the NRA and give money to GOA , FPC and others .

that’s not qualified immunity. Note the word qualified . Unlike judges and prosecutors, who have absolute immunity , cops get sued all the time . Qualified immunity means if the cop did their job right, they can’t be sued . For example , if the cop makes an arrest because he had probable cause , such as a woman pointed at someone and said that man raped me, and the cop makes the arrest but later DNA says it wasn’t him. The cop can’t be sued for doing his job. Or if in 1961, a cop hot a confession without reading Miranda rights because the Miranda decision hadn’t been created yet, he can’t be sued for a “right” that hadn’t been created yet. Cops get sued all the time despite qualified immunity and that the cop did their job 100% right. Cops actually have less rights. Cops get false accusations and defamed in the press all the time and the courts will not allow deformation lawsuits that most people could file . A man has a better change of getting physical custody in a divorce than cop has of getting a deformation lawsuit before a court. A cop gets hurt, he gets Line of duty pay but it’s very hard for the cop to sue for those injuries under the firefighter’s rule — it a higher burden than a normal person would have to meet.
That’s just a few examples. Like the military, if an off duty cop gets in trouble , he faces the court then he had to face the department. Double punishment that can cost the cop hundreds of thousands of dollars in value for what could be a ticket-able offense.
Can you be forced to testify ? Cops can and are . It’s under Garrity v NJ . Cops can be forced to tell what happened to their department where they can not force a “civilian “ to talk . Plead the 5th and almost instantly lose hundreds of thousands of dollars of value and your job even if you did nothing wrong .
It’s not a title of nobility but something earned. Or maybe you think we should take away the extra points veterans get on civil service exams or certain rights veterans get that the general public doesn’t . I’m not just talking about healthcare and pensions but additional rights . Certain business preferences and actual things veterans can do that non veterans can’t . Do you think we should take that away too?

A veterans discount or bonus points is not the same thing.

That is compensation for their service, not dissimilar to a paycheck, or their VA benefits.

It doesn't put them in a different class than ordinary citizens, and it isn't part of the job.

Immunity is *not* intended or advertised as compensation, and if it were there would be widespread outrage.

It is literally saying "these guys are above the law in this way". That is very much what titles of nobility were all about.

And, *nobody* should have *any* form of immunity, legislators and judges included. If they weren't immune, they might finallu decide they needed to fix the tort system they subject the rest of us to.

 

[GOPerfect]

Doctors run into both of those same issues.

The solution is that we pay them enough to afford malpractice insurance.

So, we pay you guys like doctors. Problem solved.

If the price of getting rid of qualified immunity is paying cops $500k salaries, then we pay it.

18 Billion, per year, just for the NYPD.... That is just the salary

 

[Truebeliever]

Doctors manage to find a way. Dozens of other professions too.

Maybe we just need to pay you enough that you can afford serious malpractice insurance.

Maybe your effectiveness will drop.

*maybe* we'll finally fix our absolutely fucked up tort system.

But, I think whatever combination of those we finally settle on will be better than what we have.

Certainly there are many people who don't have any sort of immunity who would be far more effective if they did. But we have decided that we are better off with less efficient doctors and truck drivers than we are with unaccountable ones.

Your right . Doctors found a way. They increased their billing , they got out of certain specialties like OB/GYN . And stopped seeing high risk patients . Cops often don’t have the same options but there are some . If you work narcotics, you will be sued more because the drug dealers pay lawyers yo do it . If you make big arrests or are active , you will get sued more than the guy who does nothing but paperwork.
You will get more of the paperwork pusher if qualified immunity goes away. You can see it now. If they run away , cops aren’t chasing them - ie Chicago — it’s written in their policies now . Look at car chases, they will be called off immediately in a log of places no matter what the crime they are wanted for .

 

[GOPerfect]

It is literally saying "these guys are above the law in this way". That is very much what titles of nobility were all about.

This is the only part of your post that I am quoting. The rest of what you said, I completely agree with with.

This part, I just don't like the wording. As a Police Officer, or many in different fields of LE, we are above the law, kind of.

If needed, we can speed, violate all kinds of traffic laws. The use of hands, for example, I am legally allowed to do things to other people that the average person cannot do.

These are just a few examples.

In regards to Qualified Immunity, I understand fully why we have it, I say it is needed, not just for the Police but many professions.

Like nearly everything that the government touches, the QI system is broken in many ways and needs serious reform.

 

[Truebeliever]

A veterans discount or bonus points is not the same thing.

That is compensation for their service, not dissimilar to a paycheck, or their VA benefits.

It doesn't put them in a different class than ordinary citizens, and it isn't part of the job.

Immunity is *not* intended or advertised as compensation, and if it were there would be widespread outrage.

It is literally saying "these guys are above the law in this way". That is very much what titles of nobility were all about.

And, *nobody* should have *any* form of immunity, legislators and judges included. If they weren't immune, they might finallu decide they needed to fix the tort system they subject the rest of us to.

Veteran’s credit or preference for a job isn’t an extra right ? Go for a federal job now. If it’s between a veteran and non veteran , even if the veteran much less qualified, the veteran gets unless the other person is already a federal employee. A veteran has special courts just for them if they commit a crime . Veterans can sell things where a non veteran can’t or would need to get a license. There are a whole host of other perks . A veteran who was qualified on a weapon doesn’t have to do another gun safety course where s police instructor of firearms or a NRA firearms instructor does .

Qualified immunity only means you don’t get sued for doing your job right . There are other immunities like if you report child abuse . If you see child abuse , should you be worried if you report it, you can and will be sued ? That’s why the reporter of it has immunity .
Imagine if a woman is raped , and points the guy out to the police officer — and the police officer says “ I didn’t see it . I don’t want to get sued”, so he does nothing to stop the guy. That is what is going to happen and has happened due to this push against qualified immunity or indemnification .

 

[spat]

18 Billion, per year, just for the NYPD.... That is just the salary

Then they need to find more money, or find less stuff they want cops to do.

 

[spat]

Veteran’s credit or preference for a job isn’t an extra right ? Go for a federal job now. If it’s between a veteran and non veteran , even if the veteran much less qualified, the veteran gets unless the other person is already a federal employee. A veteran has special courts just for them if they commit a crime . Veterans can sell things where a non veteran can’t or would need to get a license. There are a whole host of other perks . A veteran who was qualified on a weapon doesn’t have to do another gun safety course where s police instructor of firearms or a NRA firearms instructor does .

Qualified immunity only means you don’t get sued for doing your job right . There are other immunities like if you report child abuse . If you see child abuse , should you be worried if you report it, you can and will be sued ? That’s why the reporter of it has immunity .
Imagine if a woman is raped , and points the guy out to the police officer — and the police officer says “ I didn’t see it . I don’t want to get sued”, so he does nothing to stop the guy. That is what is going to happen and has happened due to this push against qualified immunity or indemnification .

If qualified immunity just means you can't get sued for doing your job, then why doesn't *everyone* have it ?

That sounds like it's just "fix the God dammed tort system so nobody has to worry about getting sued for doing their job right".

Saying that the military firearms training is equivalent to the NRA training for things that training is required for hardly seems like a "these people are special" sort of exemption.

There are a lot of professionals who are legally *required* to report any suspected child abuse. They manage to do it without being immune from lawsuits.

If you can't do your job without immunity, we need to change the tort system, change the job, or find someone who can. It really is that simple.

 

[spat]

Your right . Doctors found a way. They increased their billing , they got out of certain specialties like OB/GYN . And stopped seeing high risk patients . Cops often don’t have the same options but there are some . If you work narcotics, you will be sued more because the drug dealers pay lawyers yo do it . If you make big arrests or are active , you will get sued more than the guy who does nothing but paperwork.
You will get more of the paperwork pusher if qualified immunity goes away. You can see it now. If they run away , cops aren’t chasing them - ie Chicago — it’s written in their policies now . Look at car chases, they will be called off immediately in a log of places no matter what the crime they are wanted for .

Calling off car chases was because it *wasn't* worth pursuing them. Society *is better off* with those guys getting away (for now) than it was with the damage the chases were causing.

The chases were more dangerous to the public than the criminals, and the immunity made it take way too long for you guys to figure that out.

The "we need to get our man no matter what" mindset *is bad*.

You should absolutely be worried about causing damage that someone can sue you for, and you should absolutely be worried about violating someone's rights *every* time you do anything.


As for some aspects of the profession being higher risk for lawsuits, yep. That's why anesthesiologists are paid better than most doctors. Maybe that means the narcotics guys get a 50% pay bump when they are assigned to cover the increase in their insurance premiums.

 

[spat]

This is the only part of your post that I am quoting. The rest of what you said, I completely agree with with.

This part, I just don't like the wording. As a Police Officer, or many in different fields of LE, we are above the law, kind of.

If needed, we can speed, violate all kinds of traffic laws. The use of hands, for example, I am legally allowed to do things to other people that the average person cannot do.

These are just a few examples.

In regards to Qualified Immunity, I understand fully why we have it, I say it is needed, not just for the Police but many professions.

Like nearly everything that the government touches, the QI system is broken in many ways and needs serious reform.

I realize that is how things are now.

I am saying that isn't the way they should be.

The exemption for those laws should be based on the circumstances, not the actors.

You need to exceed the speed limit in some circumstances.

It is those *circumstances* that should grant the exemption, not the badge.

Likewise for all the other exemptions.

I am not saying that you shouldn't have them. I am saying *everyone* in those circumstances should have them. If the practical result is that it is almost exclusively cops that find themselves in those circumstances, then that's how it is.

 

[Acer-m14]

just saying

I will give you an example, a while back, we had a seriously intoxicated, high, individual in our custody. He had OD'ed. I gave him Narcan, three doses.

stop playing Doctor ..

 

[spat]

They are a joke . And I understand what you are saying . I see that I do have the privilege that they only curtailed some of my rights as opposed to all of them . Are there certain privileges that I am granted even if national carry is enacted . There sure are. I can carry in places that the average person won’t because of the choice of the property owner . Do I believe in the must issue carry permit . I do. No different than voter registration if they have to give it to you. Do I believe in gun registration? Nope,
Am I a life member of the NRA and give money to GOA , FPC and others .

that’s not qualified immunity. Note the word qualified . Unlike judges and prosecutors, who have absolute immunity , cops get sued all the time . Qualified immunity means if the cop did their job right, they can’t be sued . For example , if the cop makes an arrest because he had probable cause , such as a woman pointed at someone and said that man raped me, and the cop makes the arrest but later DNA says it wasn’t him. The cop can’t be sued for doing his job. Or if in 1961, a cop hot a confession without reading Miranda rights because the Miranda decision hadn’t been created yet, he can’t be sued for a “right” that hadn’t been created yet. Cops get sued all the time despite qualified immunity and that the cop did their job 100% right. Cops actually have less rights. Cops get false accusations and defamed in the press all the time and the courts will not allow deformation lawsuits that most people could file . A man has a better change of getting physical custody in a divorce than cop has of getting a deformation lawsuit before a court. A cop gets hurt, he gets Line of duty pay but it’s very hard for the cop to sue for those injuries under the firefighter’s rule — it a higher burden than a normal person would have to meet.
That’s just a few examples. Like the military, if an off duty cop gets in trouble , he faces the court then he had to face the department. Double punishment that can cost the cop hundreds of thousands of dollars in value for what could be a ticket-able offense.
Can you be forced to testify ? Cops can and are . It’s under Garrity v NJ . Cops can be forced to tell what happened to their department where they can not force a “civilian “ to talk . Plead the 5th and almost instantly lose hundreds of thousands of dollars of value and your job even if you did nothing wrong .
It’s not a title of nobility but something earned. Or maybe you think we should take away the extra points veterans get on civil service exams or certain rights veterans get that the general public doesn’t . I’m not just talking about healthcare and pensions but additional rights . Certain business preferences and actual things veterans can do that non veterans can’t . Do you think we should take that away too?

Oh, don't get me started on the "Garrity rights".

You have that exactly backwards.

That is another exemption you should absolutely not have.

I don't know why you think you can be forced to testify when someone else can't.

You know what happens if I refuse to talk to my employer about an incident because I am involved in litigation? I get fired. That's how it is for 99% of the people in the country.

But not cops, because you guys have another "get out of jail free" card that you absolutely should not have.

 

[Robin]

I will give you an example, a while back, we had a seriously intoxicated, high, individual in our custody. He had OD'ed. I gave him Narcan, three doses. He died. I got sued. If I had to pay for an attorney, that would have cost me thousands.

Last year, a trans filed suit against me for verbal abuse. That lawyer would have cost me lots as well. Police do not get paid enough to pay for these lawyers.

Tort reform! problem solved.
Robin

 

[Truebeliever]

If qualified immunity just means you can't get sued for doing your job, then why doesn't *everyone* have it ?

That sounds like it's just "fix the God dammed tort system so nobody has to worry about getting sued for doing their job right".

Saying that the military firearms training is equivalent to the NRA training for things that training is required for hardly seems like a "these people are special" sort of exemption.

There are a lot of professionals who are legally *required* to report any suspected child abuse. They manage to do it without being immune from lawsuits.

If you can't do your job without immunity, we need to change the tort system, change the job, or find someone who can. It really is that simple.

Why doesn’t everyone have it. Because it’s the position of what the job calls for. Why do judges and prosecutors have absolute immunity? Why qualified immunity? Because the cop is being sued for exactly what the law calls for him to do. Without it , the system will grind to a halt . Why doesn’t everyone have it ? Because everyone isn’t told be the law to do certain actions . If a cop runs a red light going to an emergency and hits a car, he can be sued . But if he makes an arrest based on probable cause , qualified immunity may apply . See the difference. He didn’t make a mistake even if that person is later found to be innocent but if you were the innocent person or even a guilty person where the jury just didn’t convict , you would attempt to sue the officer . Again, that woman pointing out her rapist example . Do you think if the officer knows he is going to be sued , do you think he is going to be an impartial witness? Believe it or not, those type of arrests where the officer did not witness something, they tend to be impartial .

Tell me when is a non LE put into that position ? Making an arrest based on probable cause ? That’s where qualified immunity kicks in. Use too much force to make the arrest ? The cop can be sued. Make a clearly illegal arrest, the cop can be sued . Qualified immunity isn’t what you think it is .

 

[Grimscale]

I will give you an example, a while back, we had a seriously intoxicated, high, individual in our custody. He had OD'ed. I gave him Narcan, three doses. He died. I got sued. If I had to pay for an attorney, that would have cost me thousands

Assuming your job is to help people, yeah, you should be immune from that, as long as you are following proper procedure for the administration of Narcan.

But if a cop is trying to arrest someone based on an unConstititional law, then no, they should not have immunity.

 

[spat]

Why doesn’t everyone have it. Because it’s the position of what the job calls for. Why do judges and prosecutors have absolute immunity? Why qualified immunity? Because the cop is being sued for exactly what the law calls for him to do. Without it , the system will grind to a halt . Why doesn’t everyone have it ? Because everyone isn’t told be the law to do certain actions . If a cop runs a red light going to an emergency and hits a car, he can be sued . But if he makes an arrest based on probable cause , qualified immunity may apply . See the difference. He didn’t make a mistake even if that person is later found to be innocent but if you were the innocent person or even a guilty person where the jury just didn’t convict , you would attempt to sue the officer . Again, that woman pointing out her rapist example . Do you think if the officer knows he is going to be sued , do you think he is going to be an impartial witness? Believe it or not, those type of arrests where the officer did not witness something, they tend to be impartial .

Tell me when is a non LE put into that position ? Making an arrest based on probable cause ? That’s where qualified immunity kicks in. Use too much force to make the arrest ? The cop can be sued. Make a clearly illegal arrest, the cop can be sued . Qualified immunity isn’t what you think it is .

So, you think other professions don't have to be worried about getting sued for just doing their job ?

Have I got news for you.

The damn greeter at Walmart can get sued for choosing the wrong pronoun when they say "hi".

The answer is to *fix the GD tort system*, not to dole out exceptions to favored occupations.

And I don't know why you keep going back to judges and legislators having immunity. Theirs should be stripped too.

Everyone in New Mexico should be suing their governor personally for damages right now.

 

[Truebeliever]

Assuming your job is to help people, yeah, you should be immune from that, as long as you are following proper procedure for the administration of Narcan.

But if a cop is trying to arrest someone based on an unConstititional law, then no, they should not have immunity.

Back to that pesky thing of what’s unconstitutional. A cop in 1960 makes an arrest based on a confession and did not read Miranda rights , should he have been sued ? The Miranda case hadn’t gone up to SCOTUS yet. It’s not as clear cut as you think. A protester blocks a road exercising their right of protest , can the cop be sued if they arrest him. Not so clear cut. The 2nd circuit reversed themselves on the very same case. It’s the same with the 2nd . It’s not as clear cut as one might think but certainly not what NYS thinks it is. Can a convicted felon carry a gun? Even people in the gun community argue that one. Can someone who was declared mentally incompetent carry a gun if they are allowed out in society? What if they are heavily medicated?
Can the state require some gun training before one can CCW? - that well regulated part comes in there for some .
It’s not as clear cut as one might think.

 

[Truebeliever]

So, you think other professions don't have to be worried about getting sued for just doing their job ?

Have I got news for you.

The damn greeter at Walmart can get sued for choosing the wrong pronoun when they say "hi".

The answer is to *fix the GD tort system*, not to dole out exceptions to favored occupations.

And I don't know why you keep going back to judges and legislators having immunity. Theirs should be stripped too.

Everyone in New Mexico should be suing their governor personally for damages right now.

Yep. And a cop can be sued for all of that too. Qualified immunity doesn’t apply . Hence the word qualified. You really don’t understand what qualified immunity is if you are using those examples as a comparison.

Let me give you an example of qualified immunity that you have. If you think a child being beaten up by his parents . You call the child protective services hotline to investigate. You have qualified immunity for that phone call. So if the child protective services investigator screws up and gets sued, you aren’t named in the lawsuit . However if you make that call, then go into public and tell everyone so and so abuses their children and it’s not true, you can’t be sued for the phone call but can for the public statements.
Do you see the difference?
Now add that because of your job that you are a mandated reporter and are required by law to make that phone call under criminal penalties.

 

[spat]

Back to that pesky thing of what’s unconstitutional. A cop in 1960 makes an arrest based on a confession and did not read Miranda rights , should he have been sued ? The Miranda case hadn’t gone up to SCOTUS yet. It’s not as clear cut as you think. A protester blocks a road exercising their right of protest , can the cop be sued if they arrest him. Not so clear cut. The 2nd circuit reversed themselves on the very same case. It’s the same with the 2nd . It’s not as clear cut as one might think but certainly not what NYS thinks it is. Can a convicted felon carry a gun? Even people in the gun community argue that one. Can someone who was declared mentally incompetent carry a gun if they are allowed out in society? What if they are heavily medicated?
Can the state require some gun training before one can CCW? - that well regulated part comes in there for some .
It’s not as clear cut as one might think.

Simple.

You cannot abrogated your responsibility in the matter.

It doesn't matter what authority claims something is constitutional. What matters is only whether it is or not.

So, you don't enforce anything you *personally* aren't 100% sure of. Same goes for following any order.

If you can't trust your chain of command to get it right, why should the public?

If you're not willing to risk your own neck to enforce that law, why should the public be forced to risk theirs the other way ?

Government *tells* you that you aren't responsible for your actions because "just following orders". But that's just to get you to follow the orders without question. You really are still responsible.

The people who rounded up Japanese Americans in WWII should have gone to prison for it.

Yes, that means every cop would have to constantly question every order they're given, and would have to constantly be worried about violating someone's rights. That's how it *should* be.

 

[spat]

Yep. And a cop can be sued for all of that too. Qualified immunity doesn’t apply . Hence the word qualified. You really don’t understand what qualified immunity is if you are using those examples as a comparison.

Let me give you an example of qualified immunity that you have. If you think a child being beaten up by his parents . You call the child protective services hotline to investigate. You have qualified immunity for that phone call. So if the child protective services investigator screws up and gets sued, you aren’t named in the lawsuit . However if you make that call, then go into public and tell everyone so and so abuses their children and it’s not true, you can’t be sued for the phone call but can for the public statements.
Do you see the difference?

If you made false accusations to the CPS hotline you absolutely *should* be on the hook for damages.

If your public statements are true, truth is an absolute defense against libel and slander.

So, there should be no difference whether you made those statements to CPS, or posted them on a billboard.