Loaded "Weapon" in Vehicle?

[spat]

I would think there needs to be some supporting evidence. You are not just randomly pulled over. Do you have a vehicle that would accommodate a dead deer? I don’t. Do you have other hunting items to build a case? Hunting knives, tarps, cammo clothing, scent blockers, hunting license, rope, spot lights, the list goes on and on. Me in my nice clothes with no other indicator as listed does not create even a remotely believable story and I would look nothing like what DEC encounters daily. They would know I have and show zero intent of hunting. 99% of them are good guys and would see it for what it is and move on. If a bad one wanted to proceed further it would not hold water. I’m not worried about it. If you are then by all means do as you wish.

You would be surprised at what vehicles can accommodate a deer.

The lack of a hunting license is certainly not evidence that you "aren't a poacher".

Knives, rope, tarps, lights, a lot of the people I know have that sort of stuff in their vehicles all the time.
None of it is required to support a charge of poaching either.

I am not "worried about it". I don't drive around with loaded long guns. The DEC regs don't figure into the reasons why. When I go to the range they are cased.

 

[stokes]

Big difference from a poacher out in a field at night and me in the city without as much as a tree or field in sight. It’s common sense and as I cited it doesn’t apply unless specifically dealing with wildlife.

Just curious,what city are you planning on carrying this in?

 

[Chevusa]

You would be surprised at what vehicles can accommodate a deer.

The lack of a hunting license is certainly not evidence that you "aren't a poacher".

Knives, rope, tarps, lights, a lot of the people I know have that sort of stuff in their vehicles all the time.
None of it is required to support a charge of poaching either.

I am not "worried about it". I don't drive around with loaded long guns. The DEC regs don't figure into the reasons why. When I go to the range they are cased.

None of it adds up to supporting a DEC charge and I couldn’t even tell you the last time I saw DEC in my day to day as I’m not in those rural areas. A poaching charge simply holds no water in relation to me and my activities. There needs to be a clear and concise case built. It simply doesn’t exist because I’m not poaching. “You can’t make ice cream out of shit”. It simply doesn’t fit. It would be no different than you being charged for a bank robbery because the robber had a blue shirt on you happen to have a blue shirt too. There needs to be a path to the charge. A blue shirt does not a bank robber make.

 

[Chevusa]

Just curious,what city are you planning on carrying this in?

That is irrelevant. The laws apply to all of the state except NYC.

 

[stokes]

You wouldnt be charged with poaching,you would be charged with carrying a loaded shotgun.

 

[stokes]

That is irrelevant. The laws apply to all of the state except NYC.

But it would be relevant if it were NYC,I have no idea where you are from.

 

[Chevusa]

But it would be relevant if it were NYC

That’s why I said exactly such.

 

[Chevusa]

You wouldnt be charged with poaching,you would be charged with carrying a loaded shotgun.

I would except for the fact the written law says it only applies to fishing and wildlife activities. I have no affiliation to such and no evidence or reasonable suspicion can link me to such. We have come full circle. It doesn’t apply to me. End of story.

 

[JackNeat]

but but but .. LOL .. in NY if you have a gun in the auto and a box of shells on the floor .. the gun is loaded LOL

Unloaded is no rounds in chamber or magazine. Shells rolling on the dash ok ammo in pocket ok ammo and firearm in trunk together ok ammo and firearm in case together on back seat ok.

I have been considering a Shockwave or similar sized firearm for my van. The definition of loaded/unloaded is what I want to understand. Carrying the firearm would be for a last stand type situation where you find yourself in a bad situation. Assuming enough time to grab ammunition and loading, can the firearm and ammunition be kept in the same compartment of the vehicle as the driver? I can not understand how NYS can legally say a firearm and ammunition in the same vehicle constitutes a loaded weapon.

What I have been assuming ( without actually trying to read a law ) is that a firearm ( other than pistol/revolver ) And ammunition has to be stored in a trunk or compartment AWAY from vehicle occupants. For me this would mean keeping it behind the cargo wall of my van.

 

[pjzwtl]

What I have been assuming ( without actually trying to read a law ) is that a firearm ( other than pistol/revolver ) And ammunition has to be stored in a trunk or compartment AWAY from vehicle occupants. For me this would mean keeping it behind the cargo wall of my v

The firearm just needs to be unloaded. Where it is makes no difference.

 

[Chevusa]

but but but .. LOL .. in NY if you have a gun in the auto and a box of shells on the floor .. the gun is loaded LOL

This is absolutely false and a common misconception. That definition of loaded firearm applies only to what is considered a firearm in that section of law. This is listed as a pistol or revolver only and has nothing to do with a rifle or shotgun. Each section of penal law will list its own definitions for such. They are not interchangeable and apply only to their specific sections.

 

[Chevusa]

I have been considering a Shockwave or similar sized firearm for my van. The definition of loaded/unloaded is what I want to understand. Carrying the firearm would be for a last stand type situation where you find yourself in a bad situation. Assuming enough time to grab ammunition and loading, can the firearm and ammunition be kept in the same compartment of the vehicle as the driver? I can not understand how NYS can legally say a firearm and ammunition in the same vehicle constitutes a loaded weapon.

What I have been assuming ( without actually trying to read a law ) is that a firearm ( other than pistol/revolver ) And ammunition has to be stored in a trunk or compartment AWAY from vehicle occupants. For me this would mean keeping it behind the cargo wall of my van.

See my post prior to this. The loaded definition commonly quoted applies only to pistols and revolvers. They are defined as “firearms” in that section of law. Shotguns, long guns, and other weapons are not loaded unless loaded in the chamber or magazine.
The law is meant to give them a way to elevate the charge when someone has a pistol illegally and ammo in the car. It has nothing to do with permit holders.
Again, read the law I posted where it says the unloaded regulation applies only within the scope of enforcing a wildlife regulation and in no way overrides the penal law. Penal law makes no mention whatsoever of a loaded long gun in a vehicle therefore it is legal.

 

[camper4lyfe]

The


DEC laws also say you can’t load more than five rounds in a rifle magazine... hmmm why hasn’t that been applied elsewhere than hunting like the rifle carry case?

That's only while hunting certain game, typically deer. Waterfowl has a 3 (I believe) round limit, which I can go out and chase squirrels all day with 10 rounds.

 

[pjzwtl]

Again, read the law I posted where it says the unloaded regulation applies only within the scope of enforcing a wildlife regulation and in no way overrides the penal law. Penal law makes no mention whatsoever of a loaded long gun in a vehicle therefore it is legal.

Well when you ask for legal advice on the internet this is what you get. Go ahead and drive around with a loaded long gun and see what happens when caught. Explain to the officer that you aren’t hunting so it’s ok and see where it gets you.

 

[Chevusa]

PL 265.00 DEFINITIONS
3. "Firearm" means (a) any pistol or revolver; or (b) a shotgun having
one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length; or (c) a rifle
having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length; or (d)
any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle whether by alteration,
modification, or otherwise if such weapon as altered, modified, or
otherwise has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches; or (e)
an assault weapon

15. "Loaded firearm" means any firearm loaded with ammunition or any
firearm which is possessed by one who, at the same time, possesses a
quantity of ammunition which may be used to discharge such firearm.

As you can clearly see, "loaded firearm" is only a pistol or revolver in PL 265, for this discussions sake. (Not talking AW or SBS/SBR)

 

[Chevusa]

Well when you ask for legal advice on the internet this is what you get. Go ahead and drive around with a loaded long gun and see what happens when caught. Explain to the officer that you aren’t hunting so it’s ok and see where it gets you.

No officer is going to think I am hunting in nice clothes in an expensive car in the middle of an urban populated area, and DEC will not even be in such an area. Use your head and stop living in fear. The 2A is doomed if people like you continue to hide under their beds in fear.

 

[nortatoga]

Do you see any exemptions here for not hunting? If so please point it out!

Transportation of Firearms
A person may not transport or possess a shotgun, rifle or crossbow in or on a motor vehicle unless the firearm is unloaded in both chamber and magazine or the crossbow is unloaded or taken down. While legally hunting migratory game birds, a loaded firearm may be possessed in a motorboat not under power OR in a motorboat under power only while retrieving dead/crippled birds.

A muzzleloader is considered unloaded when the cap is off the nipple, the primer is removed, the primer powder is removed from the flintlock pan, or the battery is removed from an electric-fired muzzleloader.

A crossbow is considered unloaded when the arrow/bolt is removed and the crossbow is uncocked.

 

[pjzwtl]

No officer is going to think I am hunting in nice clothes in an expensive car in the middle of an urban populated area, and DEC will not even be in such an area. Use your head and stop living in fear. The 2A is doomed if people like you continue to hide under their beds in fear.

You really are like a child some times. Do as you wish. If you think getting clipped for a bs gun law is doing the 2A any good enjoy your time.

 

[shootemup]

“You can’t make ice cream out of shit”. It simply doesn’t fit. LOL Love that..............Imagine Johnny Cochrane!!

 

[Chevusa]

Do you see any exemptions here for not hunting? If so please point it out!

Transportation of Firearms
A person may not transport or possess a shotgun, rifle or crossbow in or on a motor vehicle unless the firearm is unloaded in both chamber and magazine or the crossbow is unloaded or taken down. While legally hunting migratory game birds, a loaded firearm may be possessed in a motorboat not under power OR in a motorboat under power only while retrieving dead/crippled birds.

A muzzleloader is considered unloaded when the cap is off the nipple, the primer is removed, the primer powder is removed from the flintlock pan, or the battery is removed from an electric-fired muzzleloader.

A crossbow is considered unloaded when the arrow/bolt is removed and the crossbow is uncocked.

Yes I sure do. You have to read all of it. Not just the portion you want to.

ENV - Environmental Conservation
Article 71 - ENFORCEMENT
Title 9 - (71-0901 - 71-0927) ENFORCEMENT OF ARTICLES 11 AND 13--THE FISH AND WILDLIFE LAW
71-0905 - Penal Law, Criminal Procedure Law and other laws not affected.

1. No provision or language of the Fish and Wildlife Law [FN1] shall be construed as amending, repealing, superseding or limiting any provision of the Penal Law, Criminal Procedure Law or other law, except to the extent that such provision or language is expressly stated to be applicable notwithstanding such law, or notwithstanding any other law. Except to such extent, any provisions of the Fish and Wildlife Law inconsistent with the provisions of any other law shall be deemed to be effective for the purposes of the Fish and Wildlife Law only.

The wildlife law you cited does not say it fly's in spite of the penal law as it must "explicitly state" - per the written law I cited. Furthermore, it goes on to say it is "deemed effective for [hunting and fishing] only".

The firearm law you cited is under article 11:
New York Consolidated Laws, Environmental Conservation Law - ENV § 11-0931. Prohibitions on the use and possession of firearms.

Follow the bouncing ball here, try really hard, a lot of people around here are unable to connect two dots.

Anything in article 11 is explicitly said to not override to supersede the penal law and is to only "be deemed to be effective for the purposes of the Fish and Wildlife Law only." Per the penal law only pistols and revolvers cannot be loaded in a vehicle. On top of that PL 400 exempts me from that as well. As you can clearly see, I can lawfully carry a pistol, revolver, or shotgun, or rifle - loaded in my vehicle. It is a matter of fact. It is not open to debate. It has been overwhelmingly proven to be true.

It's ok to admit you were wrong. None of us know everything. But now you know more than you did when you woke up today.

 

[nortatoga]

Yes I sure do. Yo have to read all of it. Not just the portion you want to.

ENV - Environmental Conservation
Article 71 - ENFORCEMENT
Title 9 - (71-0901 - 71-0927) ENFORCEMENT OF ARTICLES 11 AND 13--THE FISH AND WILDLIFE LAW
71-0905 - Penal Law, Criminal Procedure Law and other laws not affected.

1. No provision or language of the Fish and Wildlife Law [FN1] shall be construed as amending, repealing, superseding or limiting any provision of the Penal Law, Criminal Procedure Law or other law, except to the extent that such provision or language is expressly stated to be applicable notwithstanding such law, or notwithstanding any other law. Except to such extent, any provisions of the Fish and Wildlife Law inconsistent with the provisions of any other law shall be deemed to be effective for the purposes of the Fish and Wildlife Law only.

The wildlife law you cited does not say it fly's in spite of the penal law as it specifically must "explicitly state" - per the written law I cited. Furthermore, it goes on to say it is "deemed effective for [hunting and fishing] only".

So by your way of thinking, you can shoot within 500 ft. Of a dwelling if your not hunting?

It is illegal to discharge a firearm, crossbow or bow:

• So that the load or arrow/bolt passes over any part of a public highway
• Within 500 feet for a firearm, 250 feet for a crossbow or 150 feet for a bow of any school, playground, or an occupied factory or church
• Within 500 feet for a firearm, 250 feet for a crossbow or 150 feet for a bow of a dwelling, farm building or structure in occupation or use unless you own it, lease it, are an immediate member of the family, an employee, or have the owner’s consent

You may hunt waterfowl over water within 500 feet of a dwelling or public structure as long as neither are within 500 feet in the direction you are shooting.

And you can also shoot across a highway if your not hunting?

These are still NYS Laws and are not in conflict with a y penal law!

 

[Chevusa]

So by your way of thinking, you can shoot within 500 ft. Of a dwelling if your not hunting?

It is illegal to discharge a firearm, crossbow or bow:

• So that the load or arrow/bolt passes over any part of a public highway
• Within 500 feet for a firearm, 250 feet for a crossbow or 150 feet for a bow of any school, playground, or an occupied factory or church
• Within 500 feet for a firearm, 250 feet for a crossbow or 150 feet for a bow of a dwelling, farm building or structure in occupation or use unless you own it, lease it, are an immediate member of the family, an employee, or have the owner’s consent

You may hunt waterfowl over water within 500 feet of a dwelling or public structure as long as neither are within 500 feet in the direction you are shooting.

And you can also shoot across a highway if your not hunting?

These are still NYS Laws and are not in conflict with a y penal law!

It has nothing to do with my way of thinking. It is explicitly written in law, as opposed to your personal feelings and beliefs. Pay attention! Articles 11 and 13 are to be enforced for hunting and fishing purposes only. It says exactly such. A person not hunting and not using a weapon to legally defend themselves would have no purpose to fire a gun in any of those scenarios you mentioned. You are trying to spin what cannot be spun. "deemed to be effective for the purposes of the Fish and Wildlife Law only."

It should be noted that towns and villages explicitly prohibit the discharge of a firearm within their limits in most cases. In such case you would be charged with violation of ordnance and be subject to fine as laid out by the ordnance.

 

[nortatoga]

It has nothing to do with my way of thinking. It is explicitly written in law, as opposed to your personal feelings and beliefs. Pay attention! Articles 11 and 13 are to be enforced for hunting and fishing purposes only. It says exactly such. A person not hunting and not using a weapon to legally defend themselves would have no purpose to fire a gun in any of those scenarios you mentioned. You are trying to spin what cannot be spun. "deemed to be effective for the purposes of the Fish and Wildlife Law only."

Well you just go and do what you believe, you seem to think you found the loophole!

When most on here know you can not have a loaded long gun in a moter vehicle! Hell I've known it since I was a kid on Long Island.

Again let us know how it works out for you!

 

[Chevusa]

Well you just go and do what you believe, you seem to think you found the loophole!

When most on here know you can not have a loaded long gun in a moter vehicle! Hell I've known it since I was a kid on Long Island.

Again let us know how it works out for you!

I didn't find a loophole. I read the written law - completely! Not just a snapshot of it! It says exactly what it is for. It says it is NOT to "be construed as amending, repealing, superseding or limiting any provision of the Penal Law, Criminal Procedure Law or other law"

The Penal law allows for loaded long guns in a vehicle because it does not expressly say it is illegal to do so. This hunting law would therefore "limit" or "supersede" what is allowed in the penal law - a fact that the above direct law text says it is NOT to do, EXCEPT for [hunting and fishing] purposes. It is clear as day.

Lot's of people "know" things that are completely wrong. You are no exception in this case.

There are lots of 2A tough guys around here who in reality would piss themselves and run and hide under their beds and don't even have the courage to stand up and do something that is clearly lawful, as stated in writing directly from penal and DEC law. If you're afraid of a hunting regulation when you're in no way hunting even when it says such regulation can only be enforced for hunting and fishing purposes, than you sir are helpless and to think that you won't be driving your guns to the police station the day they tell you you must surrender all of them is laughable at best. You might as well turn them in now and get it over with!

 

[nortatoga]

I didn't find a loophole. I read the written law - completely! Not just a snapshot of it! It says exactly what it is for. It says it is NOT to "be construed as amending, repealing, superseding or limiting any provision of the Penal Law, Criminal Procedure Law or other law"

The Penal law allows for loaded long guns in a vehicle because it does not expressly say it is illegal to do so. This hunting law would therefore "limit" or "supersede" what is allowed in the penal law - a fact that the above direct law text says it is NOT to do, EXCEPT for [hunting and fishing] purposes. It is clear as day.

Lot's of people "know" things that are completely wrong. You are no exception in this case.

There are lots of 2A tough guys around here who in reality would piss themselves and run and hide under their beds and don't even have the courage to stand up and do something that is clearly lawful, as stated in writing directly from penal and DEC law. If you're afraid of a hunting regulation when you're in no way hunting even when it says such regulation can only be enforced for hunting and fishing purposes, than you sir are helpless and to think that you won't be driving your guns to the police station the day they tell you you must surrender all of them is laughable at best. You might as well turn them in now and get it over with!

Again I say go ahead if you think you are right! Because it wil be you not me turning guns in!

 

[Chevusa]

Again I say go ahead if you think you are right! Because it wil be you not me turning guns in!

Again, it has nothing to do with me. It is clearly written. Stop digging yourself in deeper. Admit you were wrong. It is a written fact. You do not have a leg to stand on.

 

[nortatoga]

I really hope you don't give the advice to anyone else, because you will really get them jammed up!

 

[Chevusa]

I really hope you don't give the advice to anyone else, because you will really get them jammed up!

Everyone else can read and comprehend what is explicitly stated in the law. Go hide under your bed or turn em all in.

 

[nortatoga]

Everyone else can read and comprehend what is explicitly stated in the law. Go hide under your bed or turn em all in.

The telling sign that someone knows they are losing an argument, they start with insults and childish comments!

 

[repete]

I didn't find a loophole. I read the written law - completely! Not just a snapshot of it! It says exactly what it is for. It says it is NOT to "be construed as amending, repealing, superseding or limiting any provision of the Penal Law, Criminal Procedure Law or other law"

The Penal law allows for loaded long guns in a vehicle because it does not expressly say it is illegal to do so. This hunting law would therefore "limit" or "supersede" what is allowed in the penal law - a fact that the above direct law text says it is NOT to do, EXCEPT for [hunting and fishing] purposes. It is clear as day.

Lot's of people "know" things that are completely wrong. You are no exception in this case.

There are lots of 2A tough guys around here who in reality would piss themselves and run and hide under their beds and don't even have the courage to stand up and do something that is clearly lawful, as stated in writing directly from penal and DEC law. If you're afraid of a hunting regulation when you're in no way hunting even when it says such regulation can only be enforced for hunting and fishing purposes, than you sir are helpless and to think that you won't be driving your guns to the police station the day they tell you you must surrender all of them is laughable at best. You might as well turn them in now and get it over with!

OK, your so sure of yourself and your knowledge and research then go ahead load up and drive around until you find a cop and then tell and show him the loaded "not firearm" and see what happens. Make sure to tape it or it didn't happen! I bet you don't have the balls to back up your claim.